New E-Trac ~ Handling Iron Targets Video..

[RigDean]

if the old explorers are as good as everyone says, then wouldn't it be reasonable to suggest this E-Trac is a faster, and more advanced machine. technology is advancing everywhere and i'm sure minelab is no different. it would be self destructive for them to introduce a brand new machine using the same previous technology. just look at the trend...minelab will be out with something two years from now claiming it is better than the E-Trac, and you know what it probably will be because that is the nature of technology and a thriving company that obviously wants to supply a demand. Don't get me wrong, i agree 100 and 10 percent with constructive criticism, because that will actually assist in the process of bringing what people want to the field. I say give the E-trac a chance, it's still in its infancy after all. i say get one if in doubt and run it throught the gambit, criticise it, put it to the test, and then make an informed decision.....otherwise, don't get one, keep using whatever works for you and stick with it........

 

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[Brett]

RigDean, for me it comes down to money. I would say if money is not an option, go for the best land detector out there right now - the E-TRAC. If money matters, find something used on ebay or direct from another detectorist, preferably an explorer or some kind. Either way you are going to have a great time digging up treasure.

 

[Iron Patch]

RigDean, for me it comes down to money. I would say if money is not an option, go for the best land detector out there right now - the E-TRAC. If money matters, find something used on ebay or direct from another detectorist, preferably an explorer or some kind. Either way you are going to have a great time digging up treasure.

Sure... if new always = best.

I have no budget when it comes to my detector and if I really thought the E-trac was better I'd buy one. I hope someone I know does, but I can't see it happening.

 

[Brett]

Sure... if new always = best.

Well, for me... this new one is the best, based on what I've seen and heard. It's not some blanket statement I'm making because it's the newest machine out there. Without comparing it to older model explorers, what do you have against it besides its price?

EDIT: Well I guess you will somehow have to compare it to older model detectors, but do it in a way that works for someone that doesn't even have a detector yet.

 

[Iron Patch]

Sure... if new always = best.

Well, for me... this new one is the best, based on what I've seen and heard. It's not some blanket statement I'm making because it's the newest machine out there. Without comparing it to older model explorers, what do you have against it besides its price?

I don't have anything against it, just don't think it will be any better for my detecting. I will most likely make an effort to somehow try one but only if the sounds and operation is similar to my XS. If it's too different I probably have no interest. (I suspect it would be very close)

 

[Brett]

Sure... if new always = best.

Well, for me... this new one is the best, based on what I've seen and heard. It's not some blanket statement I'm making because it's the newest machine out there. Without comparing it to older model explorers, what do you have against it besides its price?

I don't have anything against it, just don't think it will be any better for my detecting. I will most likely make an effort to somehow try one but only if the sounds and operation is similar to my XS. If it's too different I probably have no interest. (I suspect it would be very close)

What gets me is that in every attempt in this thread where someone has posted something positive about the E-TRAC, you are right there to tell them they are mistaken somehow. Yet you don't also tell them in every one of your replies that the E-TRAC is not as good as they say for the "type of detecting" that you do. I think the moral of the story here is that anyone reading our posts should take them with a grain of salt.

Personally, I can't wait to try one out and take it to a little 'ol pounded area that has iron and other junk in it and see what more I can find. Yes, that would suck for us explorer users if the sounds were different... but I bet we could readjust pretty quickly. At least we are past the point of wanting to pull our hair out with all of the sounds the explorer makes... it all sounds like music now. We just have to change the CD, or um... LP... whatever. 8-track? lol

 

[Jason in TN]

Sure... if new always = best.

Well, for me... this new one is the best, based on what I've seen and heard. It's not some blanket statement I'm making because it's the newest machine out there. Without comparing it to older model explorers, what do you have against it besides its price?

I don't have anything against it, just don't think it will be any better for my detecting. I will most likely make an effort to somehow try one but only if the sounds and operation is similar to my XS. If it's too different I probably have no interest. (I suspect it would be very close)

The Etrack IS way different than your old Explorer. The menus and the sounds for targets will not be close and the ID#'s are also different. I would not think that you would like one as they are no good and a step back in from the explorer . Since they will not find any thing please send a map of all of your best places to hunt and I PROMISE I will only use my E-Track there and leave my much better old explorer at the house .

 

[Michigan Badger]

Any Tesoro could easily pass that dime between the small nails test.

Put the nails over that dime and swing a Silver uMax as fast as you want.

My XS has no problem with small nails such as in the demonstration.

To me the Etrack's possible speed factor isn't worth an extra $900 (you can buy a near mint XS for $500).

What I'm wondering is how deep and accurate this speed demon is in actual hunting situations?

I'm taking a wait and see stance on this one. Besides, with the XS I'm more than satisfied.

Badger

 

[Iron Patch]

Sure... if new always = best.

Well, for me... this new one is the best, based on what I've seen and heard. It's not some blanket statement I'm making because it's the newest machine out there. Without comparing it to older model explorers, what do you have against it besides its price?

I don't have anything against it, just don't think it will be any better for my detecting. I will most likely make an effort to somehow try one but only if the sounds and operation is similar to my XS. If it's too different I probably have no interest. (I suspect it would be very close)

The Etrack IS way different than your old Explorer. The menus and the sounds for targets will not be close and the ID#'s are also different. I would not think that you would like one as they are no good and a step back in from the explorer . Since they will not find any thing please send a map of all of your best places to hunt and I PROMISE I will only use my E-Track there and leave my much better old explorer at the house .

Thanks you just saved me the trouble or trying one.

The list of good sites and decent finds would be too long, I don't have time for a map. 8) I don't think any detector would get you much at my better sites because it won't see coin size targets deeper than the plough.

 

[Jason in TN]

Iron patch just funning with you. It is alot different than the Explorer it will take me some time to get use to my self but I really do like it so far. Going relic hunting in the morning to a hunted out civil war site. If I can pull a few good targets out it would be great. Got one bullet last time out there so hope to do better with the Etrac.

Jason

 

[Iron Patch]

Trust me I don't take any of this too serious because it doesn't affect my detecting so i don't care.

I wouldn't have any idea of how many hundreds of hours I have on the XS and I sure wasn't kidding about not wanting to have anything to do with the E-trac if it's different. Just changing my headphones throws me out of wack.

 

[Jason in TN]

Another cool video of the etrack at work in the iron.

http://www.mlotv.com/view/394/circle-of-trash/

 

[Iron Patch]

Another cool video of the etrack at work in the iron.

http://www.mlotv.com/view/394/circle-of-trash/

Yes, sort of a test in iron but nothing to do with reset speed. Any Explorer will do that. (probably any detector in fact) Nothing too impressive about that. If you believe it's good than that's all that matters, I just disagree.

 

[Brett]

Another cool video of the etrack at work in the iron.

http://www.mlotv.com/view/394/circle-of-trash/

Yes, sort of a test in iron but nothing to do with reset speed. Any Explorer will do that. (probably any detector in fact) Nothing too impressive about that. If you believe it's good than that's all that matters, I just disagree.

Iron Patch,

I respect your opinion... but you are completely nuts if you think an explorer can do that! Did you see those nails that were horizontal in video? Well those nails throw out a large halo effect over the coin and will completely fool an explorer. Please don't say an explorer will do this until you've made the video that proves it. I've done this test with my SE Pro and can honestly say the horizontal nails hide the coin. A vertical nail could be placed 1" away from the coin, and the explorer would see it, but it would NOT sound as true and clear as it does on the E-TRAC. Again, the horizontal nails would baffle the explorer and I would suspect MOST OTHER DETECTORS TOO.

Not sure why you are so keen on the reset speed? If I place a dime a nickel and a penny in a row, and sweep the explorer over it... it will sound off appropriately for each coin - even if I sweep at a moderate pace. But the display locks up and the numbers don't update. This is a known problem for the explorer. I know the E-TRAC would do better, but we will have to wait until someone posts that video too I guess. Place iron in with those coins and I bet it will do just as fine as it does with one coin. Why would it be any slower sounding off for another round coin object when it can already deal with horizontal nails right next to the coin

 

[Iron Patch]

Another cool video of the etrack at work in the iron.

http://www.mlotv.com/view/394/circle-of-trash/

Yes, sort of a test in iron but nothing to do with reset speed. Any Explorer will do that. (probably any detector in fact) Nothing too impressive about that. If you believe it's good than that's all that matters, I just disagree.

Iron Patch,

I respect your opinion... but you are completely nuts if you think an explorer can do that! Did you see those nails that were horizontal in video? Well those nails throw out a large halo effect over the coin and will completely fool an explorer. Please don't say an explorer will do this until you've made the video that proves it. I've done this test with my SE Pro and can honestly say the horizontal nails hide the coin. A vertical nail could be placed 1" away from the coin, and the explorer would see it, but it would NOT sound as true and clear as it does on the E-TRAC. Again, the horizontal nails would baffle the explorer and I would suspect MOST OTHER DETECTORS TOO.

Not sure why you are so keen on the reset speed? If I place a dime a nickel and a penny in a row, and sweep the explorer over it... it will sound off appropriately for each coin - even if I sweep at a moderate pace. But the display locks up and the numbers don't update. This is a known problem for the explorer. I know the E-TRAC would do better, but we will have to wait until someone posts that video too I guess. Place iron in with those coins and I bet it will do just as fine as it does with one coin. Why would it be any slower sounding off for another round coin object when it can already deal with horizontal nails right next to the coin

First off I'm only bringing up the reset speed issue because some people think that is the reason the detector is seeing the coin, not the case.

Now to the test, you're calling me nuts and you're talking about halo in an air test? Do you understand what the halo effect is? Doesn't sound like it because that's really a term best used for ground targets, an airtest would not be near the same idea. Watch the test again, when there's no coin and just the nails the detector is obviously on the fringe of detecting them making a slight hum when it goes over, it's because the discrimination is set just barely enough to null the nails. Put a coin in the mix and the combined signal is enough to push the signal to a non ferrous reading. all detectors basically work that way and is why it's a good idea to use the lowest disc. you can stand when hunting in iron.

PS... If you're looking at a digital screen reading hunting in heavy iron then you do actually have a lot more experience to gain. Not trying to take a shot at you but quite honestly it's just the truth. Trying to get a screen reading on targets that might not even give off much of a sound is near useless.

PSS I don't hunt parks, I don't hunt beaches.... I HUNT IN IRON!... and with an Explorer ...and for more hours than I could even take a guess at.

 

[Jason in TN]

Iron Patch if you will watch again he gives the readings that the Etrack is giving and it is a conductive # for a coin it is reading the coin in the Iron. Halo's are what angels wear and in the detecting world are a myth and are not readable by a detector. It is true the E Track sees and ID"S the coin as a Coin in the conductive range. The Explorer will not do that on this test at any speed. Try It.

 

[Brett]

First off I'm only bringing up the reset speed issue because some people think that is the reason the detector is seeing the coin, not the case.

If you're explanation for why the E-TRAC see's the coin in that circle of trash is found below, then I disagree with your logic.

Now to the test, you're calling me nuts and you're talking about halo in an air test? Do you understand what the halo effect is? Doesn't sound like it because that's really a term best used for ground targets, an airtest would not be near the same idea.

I think you forgot to describe what your interpretation of the halo effect is.

Watch the test again, when there's no coin and just the nails the detector is obviously on the fringe of detecting them making a slight hum when it goes over, it's because the discrimination is set just barely enough to null the nails. Put a coin in the mix and the combined signal is enough to push the signal to a non ferrous reading. all detectors basically work that way and is why it's a good idea to use the lowest disc. you can stand when hunting in iron.

Well when I did my iron test with my SE Pro, I was getting slight falsing from my nails as well. I had my Iron Mask set to 26. Yet my silver dime was hard to hear past 4" and certainly was no where near as clear as the E-TRAC. This was with vertical nails as well! The horizontal nails in my test could not be brought near my dime much closer than where they were at the 6" mark or they would mask the dime. See my picture here:

Even thought the detector is on the verge of seeing nails as coins, or falsing... that doesn't mean if you drop a silver dime next to a nail it will put it over the edge and sound off as a coin. There is a ton more ferrous metal in nail than in a silver coin, and if the detector is set to null on iron it's going to null on iron and not see the coin right next to it. Well... most detectors will. The Explorer will see a coin close by if the nail is parallel with the DD coil detecting 'blade'... although not very well at distance. When the nail is perpendicular to the coil 'blade', the magnetic "signature" of the nail seems to mask the coin. When I'm talking about halo, I'm thinking of a magnetic field or flux lines. I guess in metal detecting the "halo effect" is thought of as the opposite... ground oxidizing around iron and falsing as a coin. Not what I was thinking.

PS... If you're looking at a digital screen reading hunting in heavy iron then you do actually have a lot more experience to gain. Not trying to take a shot at you but quite honestly it's just the truth. Trying to get a screen reading on targets that might not even give off much of a sound is near useless.

I know. Everyone starts out with looking at the numbers to know what objects sound like what numbers... and then every time you see those numbers again you can try to embed that sound with that object in your brain. I use the SmartFind screen now because I'm all grown up and not a kid anymore... hah. I was just trying to point out that the explorer locks up and that's annoying if you DID want to look at the numbers when that sweet sound was occurring. The E-TRAC most likely doesn't have this problem.

PSS I don't hunt parks, I don't hunt beaches.... I HUNT IN IRON!... and with an Explorer ...and for more hours than I could even take a guess at.

 

[Captn SE]

I've done this test with my SE Pro and can honestly say the horizontal nails hide the coin.

On the following video, the E-Trac also fails the horizontal nail test.

Check it out at 1:40 of the vid:
http://www.mlotv.com/view/387/e-trac-iron-test/

Why wouldn't the E-Trac sound off on the coin between the horizontal nails in this video? Because the user was using too much iron masking. When he placed the iron on top of the coin, he still got a response from the coin. That small amount of iron placed on top of the coin was not sufficient enough to shift/bounce the coin into the masked/discriminated area (I elaborate on this "shifting/bouncing" effect in paragraph 3 below). Also, when masking is involved, you have to elaborate a little on the recover rate of an Explorer. It will take an Explorer longer to recover from a nulled threshold from masking than from a positive/non-nulled response. When nulling occurs, the machine has to come back to threshold before it can signal another positive response. I read somewhere that a return back to threshold isnot necessary between two signals that aren't masked that are swung over. Thus, there's going to be a naturally slower recover rate when a masked target is swung over first, followed by the un-masked target. I've been hearing that the E-Trac is supposed to have an faster recovery rate than the SE, meaning it's turnaround time from a null to threshold to postitive response is much quicker.

Just as IP stated, depending on the amount of iron mask you set, allows the operator to either hear or null the coin next to iron. That's why people who are using a ML default coin program will never be able to pull any good, deep targets next to iron because the good signal will bounce/drift more toward the iron/masked area, and cause nulling.

Too much masking/iron rejection/discrimination = nulled response on high conductors next to iron.
Setting your iron reject just at the threshold of your common iron items in your ground, or in other words, at the lowest discrimination/mask possible to barely null your iron = a much better chance for getting a repeatable/positive response on high conductors next to iron. While hunting in Conductive sounds, your desirable high conductive target in this case would not change its tone when it is next to iron because the "bounce", or shift of the target moves on the Ferrous axis and stays fairly level on the Conductive axis. Now that same desirable target with Ferrous Sounds set will give erratic bouncing ferrous numbers, thus changing its tone response quite a bit. This is because the bounce/pull of iron seduced signals happens mostly on the Ferrous scale and not the Conductive scale.

There's no way to null out all iron in the ground if you want to get those high conductors that are hiding next to it. Even the best Explorer hunters will dig iron, because certain pieces will false sufficiently enough to give a positive, repeatable reading. I'd rather dig an occasional tricky piece of iron than to miss a good high conductor sitting next to iron because of too much iron masking/iron rejection/discrimination.

HH,
CAPTN SE
Dan

 

[Brett]

I've done this test with my SE Pro and can honestly say the horizontal nails hide the coin.

On the following video, the E-Trac also fails the horizontal nail test.

Check it out at 1:40 of the vid:
http://www.mlotv.com/view/387/e-trac-iron-test/

Now that guy is using a cut silver half coin in that first test. The E-TRAC is having trouble with the screwdriver bits and a half silver. But later in the video he uses a roman coin and the E-TRAC does much better with that. I would like to repeat this test with the explorer, using the screwdriver bits and play with my Iron Mask setting. I guess I'll have to buy a cut half silver and a roman coin to play though.

In the testing I did, I remember playing with the Iron Mask setting and it did not detect the coin any better with a lower mask, or when I went all metal in Ferrous sounds mode. In fact, it was worse with AM and Ferrous sounds and 6" or deeper, and that's the sweet spot around my area and I think a lot of other areas.

Dan, thanks for taking a little time and explaining the recovery speed issue with the explorer. Anyone that has gone from a fast machine to the explorer will realize this shortcoming, but fortunately the explorer makes up for it in other ways. Just look at what everybody, including yourself, is pulling out of the ground with them.

I don't think all debates are settled yet, I will do some more testing. However I think it's still obvious that the E-TRAC is a sweet machine. I could also just get an E-TRAC and not do the testing with the explorer... that sounds like it would be more fun.