Odyssey treasure will go to Spain!

[Trez]

Forgive my laziness in not using Google, but has any investigation been done into the favors mentioned in the wiki-leaks?

Isn´t your judicial system independent from the Government?

Yes it is...it is part of the three branches that once made up a mighty Nation...
Buy every day and every year we continue to weaken those branches by changing, giving in and kissing ass of all others to lazy to uphold the true spirit in which those branches were origionally formed. We try to be so GDamn politically correct now not to offend anyone outside this Country and also sadly enough within it also. Odyssey will lose probably but there was a day when they would have won and easily and no Country outside of this one could do a damn thing about it...
Kudos to Spain for using our own system against ourselves...they are now like many that use "the system" and not for good... but for GREED.
I do agree that Odyssey if they lose...should return the coins/artifacts not to Spain, but to the Sea.

Trez

 

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[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Forgive my laziness in not using Google, but has any investigation been done into the favors mentioned in the wiki-leaks?

Isn´t your judicial system independent from the Government?

Yes it is...it is part of the three branches that once made up a mighty Nation...
Buy every day and every year we continue to weaken those branches by changing, giving in and kissing ass of all others to lazy to uphold the true spirit in which those branches were origionally formed. We try to be so GDamn politically correct now not to offend anyone outside this Country and also sadly enough within it also. Odyssey will lose probably but there was a day when they would have won and easily and no Country outside of this one could do a damn thing about it...
Kudos to Spain for using our own system against ourselves...they are now like many now that use the system not for good...but for GREED
I do agree that Odyssey if they lose...should return the coins/artifacts not to Spain, but to the Sea.

Trez

Gday Trez Spain is coming after you You have more Spanish silver than Odyssey

 

[Trez]

Forgive my laziness in not using Google, but has any investigation been done into the favors mentioned in the wiki-leaks?

Isn´t your judicial system independent from the Government?

Yes it is...it is part of the three branches that once made up a mighty Nation...
Buy every day and every year we continue to weaken those branches by changing, giving in and kissing ass of all others to lazy to uphold the true spirit in which those branches were origionally formed. We try to be so GDamn politically correct now not to offend anyone outside this Country and also sadly enough within it also. Odyssey will lose probably but there was a day when they would have won and easily and no Country outside of this one could do a damn thing about it...
Kudos to Spain for using our own system against ourselves...they are now like many now that use the system not for good...but for GREED
I do agree that Odyssey if they lose...should return the coins/artifacts not to Spain, but to the Sea.

Trez

Gday Trez Spain is coming after you You more Spanish silver than Odyssey

Ossy,
Well, where do you think their keeping all those coins ? I'll be damned if I'm giving Spain the key, lol
My 5 gallon buckets will be empty...

 

[VOC]

The Coins are going to Spain

Thank god for that, hopefully it will now stop the Spanish and Portuguese Archaeologist crying and wailing at long last.

It did the job for Odyssey, cost a bit in fuel, wages and legal fees, but put them on the world map with massive publicity and upped their share price and investment by far more than the operation and legal case cost.

The Spanish has been made to look greedy thieves, and will now they have the on-going cost of owning the coins that will burden their tax payers for ever and a day

What a great result !

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

The Coins are going to Spain

Thank god for that, hopefully it will now stop the Spanish and Portuguese Archaeologist crying and wailing at long last.

It did the job for Odyssey, cost a bit in fuel, wages and legal fees, but put them on the world map with massive publicity and upped their share price and investment by far more than the operation and legal case cost.

The Spanish has been made to look greedy thieves, and will now they have the on-going cost of owning the coins that will burden their tax payers for ever and a day

What a great result !

You crack me up, You sure your not a comedian

 

[VOC]

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0lFFFEc13Y

Nice VOC He is nearly as good as Roy Orbison.
You did bring a tear to my eye, I'm a big Roy fan

 

[Vox veritas]

http://translate.google.com/transla...supremo-eeuu-rechaza-ultimo-201202092049.html

In the court of La Linea is accused Greg Stemm after four years!?

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

http://translate.google.com/transla...supremo-eeuu-rechaza-ultimo-201202092049.html

In the court of La Linea is accused Greg Stemm after four years!?

thanks Claudio, Interesting charges may be brought to Greg Stemm.
Ossy

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Spain looking at sharing treasure with Peru.
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/02/09/us/sunken-treasure/index.html
Ossy

 

[piratediver]

From Sub-Arch today:


Laura, I had the chance to speak with the people from the Spanish Naval Archives in Madrid, who were compiling information about the Mercedes, and they told me that they made quite a good case about the private cargo that was on board the ship. You see, there was private cargo on board, and a few years after the sinking of the vessel, the Spanish government paid off the owners because the state was responsible for the ship. If the owners/Descendants of the cargo were paid for their losses, then I guess it's implicit that they gave up their rights on the cargo. It was a nice try, but I am afraid that it doesn't really work.

And now it seems the cargo has to be returned to Spain. You have to assume that in the future, Spain will make sure to enforce its ownership rights on all its vessels. I recommend treasure hunters to read books on Spanish history to find out which boats were not owned by the government. But given that every ship from "the Indies" carried the "quinto real" (a 20% tax on the goods) and that Spain spent a considerable amount of resources in escorting the boats with its own war ships, I am guessing that Spain will make a claim over every single galleon that is out there. If we have one thing in Spain, that's archives. And very detailed ones. They survived the civil war and are being digitized now, and given that Spain has been a country (the same country) since at least the late 1400s, the government has the means to demonstrate its ownership over the vessels in any court.
The proof can be found in the excellent research work done by the navy archivists to compile evidence for the US courts showing that the Mercedes was in a mission for the Spanish government, and that the Spanish government indeed paid off the losses of the owners of the rest of the cargo.

It also seems that no one is buying the "I don't know which ship this is", a game Odyssey played to avoid the judicial resolution that the Juno and La Galga received (treasure hunters admitted since the beginning that the ships were Spanish but failed to ask permission to the Spanish government to excavate the site).

It was alright to work with the Spanish government when dictator Franco was in office. It's always easy to work with dictators. After his death, when Mel Fisher was working on the Atocha, Spain was just giving its first steps into democracy and their attention was focused on making a bloodless transition. Unfortunately for treasure hunters, now it seems that neither the PSOE (center-left party) nor the PP (right wing party) are willing to let go on this one. Times change.

 

[VOC]

If Spain wants to claim ownership of all their wrecks in foreign lands thats fine.

That gives each country the rights to ask them to remove all trace of the wreck or face ongoing fines, as in most countries they can evoke laws about abandond vessels.

Claiming ownership can come at a cost.

 

[jeff k]

"You see, there was private cargo on board, and a few years after the sinking of the vessel, the Spanish government paid off the owners because the state was responsible for the ship."

That was not true. Spain never paid the merchants. They tried to get the Brits to pay, but they refused. Goold never introduced one document showing the merchants were paid.

 

[cornelis 816]

I wish you guys would use the thread ,, treasure in the news ,, instead of the thread ,, Shipwrecks ,, . Just the way I am thinking ! Cornelius

 

[CanadianTrout]

This has certainly been a very interesting thread.

You guys obviously know waaaay more than I do about the in's & out's of all this and how it works. But I'm reading and learning, and reading some more. That's why you'll rarely see me comment on threads that deal with "sensitive" matters like this one.

this is all very crazy *$%# !

 

[Alexandre]

That's from Veronica, my Spanish archaeological co-director in our Nuestra Señora del Rosario project!

From Sub-Arch today:


Laura, I had the chance to speak with the people from the Spanish Naval Archives in Madrid, who were compiling information about the Mercedes, and they told me that they made quite a good case about the private cargo that was on board the ship. You see, there was private cargo on board, and a few years after the sinking of the vessel, the Spanish government paid off the owners because the state was responsible for the ship. If the owners/Descendants of the cargo were paid for their losses, then I guess it's implicit that they gave up their rights on the cargo. It was a nice try, but I am afraid that it doesn't really work.

And now it seems the cargo has to be returned to Spain. You have to assume that in the future, Spain will make sure to enforce its ownership rights on all its vessels. I recommend treasure hunters to read books on Spanish history to find out which boats were not owned by the government. But given that every ship from "the Indies" carried the "quinto real" (a 20% tax on the goods) and that Spain spent a considerable amount of resources in escorting the boats with its own war ships, I am guessing that Spain will make a claim over every single galleon that is out there. If we have one thing in Spain, that's archives. And very detailed ones. They survived the civil war and are being digitized now, and given that Spain has been a country (the same country) since at least the late 1400s, the government has the means to demonstrate its ownership over the vessels in any court.
The proof can be found in the excellent research work done by the navy archivists to compile evidence for the US courts showing that the Mercedes was in a mission for the Spanish government, and that the Spanish government indeed paid off the losses of the owners of the rest of the cargo.

It also seems that no one is buying the "I don't know which ship this is", a game Odyssey played to avoid the judicial resolution that the Juno and La Galga received (treasure hunters admitted since the beginning that the ships were Spanish but failed to ask permission to the Spanish government to excavate the site).

It was alright to work with the Spanish government when dictator Franco was in office. It's always easy to work with dictators. After his death, when Mel Fisher was working on the Atocha, Spain was just giving its first steps into democracy and their attention was focused on making a bloodless transition. Unfortunately for treasure hunters, now it seems that neither the PSOE (center-left party) nor the PP (right wing party) are willing to let go on this one. Times change.

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

If Spain wants to claim ownership of all their wrecks in foreign lands thats fine.

That gives each country the rights to ask them to remove all trace of the wreck or face ongoing fines, as in most countries they can evoke laws about abandond vessels.

Claiming ownership can come at a cost.

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

"You see, there was private cargo on board, and a few years after the sinking of the vessel, the Spanish government paid off the owners because the state was responsible for the ship."

That was not true. Spain never paid the merchants. They tried to get the Brits to pay, but they refused. Goold never introduced one document showing the merchants were paid.

It's all over Jeff Odyssey are working very hard at the moment, hoping to announce to the
world they have found the treasure on the Victory, Lets hope so for their share holders.
Ossy

 

[Alexandre]

That was not true. Spain never paid the merchants. They tried to get the Brits to pay, but they refused. Goold never introduced one document showing the merchants were paid.

It's all over Jeff Odyssey are working very hard at the moment, hoping to announce to the
world they have found the treasure on the Victory, Lets hope so for their share holders.

[/quote]


Hummm.... I might have news on that gold and it's original owners..

 

[REDDRAGON]

High court rejects stay in Spanish treasure case

The Associated Press
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/02/09/2633233/high-court-rejects-stay-in-spanish.html#storylink=cpy

TAMPA, Fla. -- A U.S. Supreme Court justice has rejected an appeal by Florida deep-sea explorers who wanted to hold onto a trove of Spanish shipwreck treasure while the courts finish sorting out ownership rights.

Federal courts have ruled that the 17 tons of silver coins and other artifacts found by Odyssey Marine Exploration off the Portuguese coast belong to Spain and must be surrendered. Odyssey sought to delay handing it over while the company continued its appeals.

A federal court rejected the request for a stay last week. Odyssey appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court, and Justice Clarence Thomas denied the application without comment on Thursday.

Odyssey said there is at least one other motion for an emergency stay before the U.S. Supreme Court.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/02/...y-in-spanish.html#storylink=cpy#storylink=cpy