Treasure Set in Stone UPDATED MACRO PIC CLOSEUPS AND X-RAY PHOTOS

1liquigirl

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Jun 13, 2005
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[size=12pt]LOOK TO PAGE TWO FOR THE LATEST AND THE NEW MACRO PICS!!!!!!! [/size] :thumbsup:

Gambling in Atlantic City is a thing of the past. You'll make out better on the shoreline. I run with a Garrett Ace 250 and came back with this and a few pieces that I think are bayonets, various sand pennies and the mouth of an 1800's amber brown whiskey bottle. It stormed with thunder and lightning the night before, and the surf was really pounding. The beach opened at 6AM and out I went. I turned the stone over and there it was, a chain and a shiny silver coin sticking right out at me. I couldn't believe what I was seeing, and after the shock wore off, you should have heard me whooping it up. I put it in my bag with the shells I had been collecting prior. I didn't care at that point about breaking any of them, to me I don't think I'll ever find anything better. About a minute after I put it in my bag, an ATV cop went by me, and I ecstatically said "Hi" to him. It was probably pretty out of place, but I couldn't help it. I held onto that bag like my life depended on it all the way back to the hotel room, to show my sleeping partner the treasure I had truly found. I wonder how long it takes to embed coins and chains in to sandstone? More than 30 years, I'm sure. :laughing7: We didn't head straight home, we went to a friend of ours that owns a stones and gems shop. He'd never seen anything like this before. He told us that as is, we are looking at a value of at least $400. We plan to get the stone X-rayed at some random dentist's office to see if there may be a pendant or even a gem on the chain and if we're lucky, there may be more coins. There is an indent in the rock underneath the area that the coin is showing that could have held another coin, it is completely round and about the size of a dime. There's alot of MDing that goes on along the shores of Atlantic City and alot of iron content out there, so I bet this stone could possibly have been overlooked by others more than once. I want to get all of the sand removed that is concreted on this coin, but I'm afraid to hurt it in any way. I carefully removed some of the grains of sand with a razor blade and I am sure I didn't scratch it. It is just enough to see that some letters are still present, but not enough to identify them. I refuse to do anything more to it. I trust someone out there can get it clean. The chain located in the top left of the stone in picture one and on my finger in picture two is handmade, the ends of each link are wrapped over the next loop. It is non magnetic, but has been tested for 14 ct gold and dissolved right away at our local jewelry store, so it's more likely to be bronze. A few more links are showing on the other side of the stone from where it hangs out on the other, so most of the chain could be wrapped up inside the stone. I hope to make banner with this one! I live in Central Pennsylvania and I doubt there is anyone around here that could identify this coin as is, it is thinner and smaller than an American Dime.

Update: There have been lots of views, replies and posts for me. Read the whole post to see the progression of IDing this. We will have the Macro pics of the coin tomorrow (Thursday, October 7th). We have used Goo Gone and the sink spigot for two days (alot longer tonight than the last). It's is showing a spot in the middle of the coin, when it hadn't before, but not much more. We used aluminum wrapped around the coin with baking soda and hot water for about 5 minutes, it didn't help much. We're hoping to find a dentist to do a water pick trick on the coin, although none of the dentists we have called wanted to even do an X-Ray. We paid $105 for two X-Ray photos at Metzger Animal Hospital in State College (I had volunteered here 12 years ago, in High School. We received a phone call back from the head of the Earth and Mineral Science Building here at Penn State. The head of the Department gave me an e-mail for a lady in the Anthroplogy Department. She has lived in Florida and has worked with shipwrecks. Just waiting to hear back from her now. Thanks for the five coin rating, on the My Best Finds Forum, but to see how this is progressing, it goes to show you, that everyone wants to find treasure, but the time and effort it takes to ID and find it's place in history, takes alot of work and patience. No one sees that in the beginning, then you find something good and you realize. Please, any other suggestions would be appreciated.
 

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Bigcypresshunter

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1liquigirl

1liquigirl

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Re: Treasure Set in Stone UPDATED X-RAY PHOTOS

As I have wanted to use this thread to show you all some of the work that is done behind the scenes for an object such as this, I decided to post a web conversation between us and
Lee XXXXXX, Ph.D. , Associate Professor of Archaeology, Department of Anthropology
The Pennsylvania State University, University Park, PA 16802

Please Note: Not posted, the conversations with Russ and Tim with the Earth and Mineral Science Department, either in Person, by phone or e-mail or the personal discussion and e-mail with Ming with the department of Geo Chemistry
I've deleted items with X's for a little bit of anonymity

10/5/2010 10:22 PM

Hello Lee,
Russ XXXXXX and Tim XXXXXXXX at the Earth and Mineral Science Department recommended you for help in identifying a piece of history. They think it could possibly be a shipwreck piece. We found it in Atlantic City upon the shoreline, after a storm the night before. We know the piece is very special because it is old enough to concrete itself and contains at least one embedded silver coin, and a handmade chain. We had the chain tested at a jewelry store in the mall and it drew a crowd. The end piece they removed dissolved instantly in a test for 14 ct gold, so we believe it to be bronze. The chain is not rusty and it is not magnetic. We didn't come straight home from our trip to the beach, we went to my friend's shop in Bellefonte. Luke at Creekside Stones and Gems shop determined that as a curiosity piece, as is, it could fetch a price of at least $400 to collectors, but I don't want to sell it. Maybe, a display case where many can see it would be a better fit. Regardless, we would like some help on a few fronts, the history and the story behind this piece would be the ultimate result. Number one: Finding a way to date this item may narrow down what shipwreck it may have came from. This may be possible, if we can clean the concretions off the face of the silver coin and identify it. We will then get a time frame. This piece is very hard, and we don't want to harm the coin. Number two: Finding someone who will X-ray it and see what other surprises this stone may hold. When the chain is held down and stationary, this piece rattles when you shake it. This sandstone piece holds a few other goodies, an indented area approximately the size of a dime where another coin may have removed itself, sea shells, possible petrified wood, reddish brown colored iron composite in a few areas, and large grey to black areas. I hope to schedule an appointment to meet with you to find out what we can do with this beautiful item. My name is Michelle XXXXX and my fiance's name is Jesse XXXXXXX. You can reach either of us at this e-mail address or you can reach me by telephone at XXX-XXX-XXXX. We live here in State College, and we can make it to your Department in under 10 minutes. Both of us will be off work Wednesday, October 6Th or Thursday, October 7Th if you can make some time for us to meet. We have possessed this beauty since September 23rd and have finally found the right person to help us.
You can see this stone in advance on the Treasure Net at this link: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
If it doesn't take you there, type TreasureNet Forum in your search engine, then click on Today's finds, then scroll down until you see my post entitled: Treasure Set in Stone UPDATED NEW PICS. I'm a senior member on the site. This piece has received much popularity (over 3530 views since I posted this item and it's story on September 29Th. I have received a five gold coin rating in my post titled the same (Treasure Set in Stone UPDATED NEW PICS) on the My Best Finds forum on the same Website. The members are as anxious as we are on getting some identifiers on this conglomerate. Any help you can give us would be appreciated and thank you, in advance. ~Michelle XXXXX

From: Lee XXXXXX
Mon, October 11, 2010 12:57:09 PM
Re: Russ XXXXXX recommendation: Help ID Treasure/Shipwreck Stone w/ embedded silver coin and bronze chain

Hello Michelle (and/or Jesse). Well thank you for your message. I guess I am a bit flabbergasted by all the treasure talk --the treasure net site from my perspective-- but I believe I get a sense of your sincerity and am glad for your interest in things historical and glad you are not of a mind to be just attaching monetary value and simply or solely interested in selling. It sounds like the jeweler in the mall caused the one bit of the chain to be destroyed and so part of the piece for any analysis is gone, if I understand things correctly. I do work on many shipwrecks with the various state underwater archaeologists and the US Navy and so have had the opportunity to see a lot of material from various ages, but I am not an expert on metal objects. I don't know the state underwater archaeologist for New Jersey, but I would suggest contacting Mark XXXXX-XXXXXXX, the state UW archaeologist for North Carolina or David XXXXX of the North Carolina Maritime Museum -- both might have some suggestions. I am pasting in Mark's email address here below. The wrecks that have been surveyed and are monitored and protected off the entire east coast are certainly known to them and would be also to the New Jersey unit. Please know that none of us as professional archaeologists can assign any value (i.e. dollar value) to it (or any other object) as a breach of ethics (so you don't want to ask them about such as that), and maybe just attach an image(s) minus the treasure site. Good luck. Best regards, Lee XXXXXX

10/11/10 8:58PM

Dear Lee,
Thank you for replying back to me about the Stone. I appreciate your recommendation to Mark and I will be contacting him via e-mail as well. To straighten up the misconception, only a small piece at the end of the link of chain was removed to do the gold test at the jewelers, so the links are still present and hanging out of the stone. We are hoping to clean the coin face of the encrusted sand grains to identify the coin so we can get a timeframe for this stone's creation. Is this something you could help me with? I have spoken with a gentleman named Ming in the Geo Chemistry department who should be getting back to me shortly by e-mail or by telephone. He said he'll try to get me moving in the right direction and that there could be someone there who could help me with the cleaning, but I don't know yet. Where should I go to get the proper professional cleaning? I want to get it cleaned by someone who knows what they are doing. This piece has yet to be looked at physically by anyone at Penn State. I would like that person to be you. If there is anything you can do, at your level, I'd appreciate it, I am off work tomorrow, Tuesday, October 12Th, and Wednesday, October 13Th. I would be glad to meet you, would you be free to look at it and its X-ray photos? Thank you for your help so far. Please give us a call (XXX) XXX-XXXX.
Michelle XXXXX and Jesse XXXXXXX
 

Bigcypresshunter

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Re: Treasure Set in Stone UPDATED X-RAY PHOTOS

No disrespect intended, but you jumped to a lot of conclusions here. One that I noticed before (and again in the letter) is you called the chain "handmade". You realize the chain is not a handmade chain.
 

Tnmountains

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Re: Treasure Set in Stone UPDATED X-RAY PHOTOS

bigcypresshunter said:
No disrespect intended, but you jumped to a lot of conclusions here. One that I noticed before (and again in the letter) is you called the chain "handmade". You realize the chain is not a handmade chain.

I agree on the chain. I have also gotten better I.D's here on t-net than from the archeology community. You could easily clean a little of the coin for a quick I.D and still leave it in it's encrustation and keep the conversation piece intact.
Jmho. :icon_sunny:
 

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1liquigirl

1liquigirl

Sr. Member
Jun 13, 2005
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Re: Treasure Set in Stone UPDATED X-RAY PHOTOS

BigCypress, I was told it was handmade by two people who have seen it in person, Luke at Creekside Stones and Gems, and the Jeweler at the Nittany Mall, if you believe it's not, well that's okay. There's alot of thoughts going through all of our minds, some believing some disbelieving. That's the discussion, the conversation piece of a thread this has become. I understand your scepticism, and I respect your thoughts as well. I like having critics here to give me a different angle of looking at things that might get me looking in a different direction. To be totally respectful, thanks (and again for your compliment on this item/thread you posted before your last post), I am looking at all angles of thoughts, pessimists and optimists because one idea might get me researching an angle I would not see in my optimistic mind. I'm leaving all the possibilities open. This thread shows the thoughts and dreams and ideas that go through a treasure hunter's mind when faced with the unknown.
TNMountains, Cleaning the coin, is impossible, the sand upon it is like rock, vinegar is to weak, homemade electrolysis did little, running tap water over it after the electrolysis not too different, Goo Gone did a little bit better (but Ming at the Geo Chemistry Department said to stop and others here on TNet said the same), a razor blade got us the little bit of the lettering you see, but I'm too nervous and shaky doing it. I'm going to have it professionally cleaned, unless anyone has any other ideas? This is not some flaky break apart rusty iron here, this is hard as rock. And it's frustrating.

To all, my thanks, and if you are just checking in, look at my last post before this one, and you'll see I've received e-mail back from the Department of Anthropology at Penn State, and a new direction to take. The coin has just a little more showing than it did when the former pics here were posted, so the Macro Pics to be posted tomorrow night could shed some more light on this subject.
 

Bigcypresshunter

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Re: Treasure Set in Stone UPDATED X-RAY PHOTOS

1liquigirl said:
BigCypress, I was told it was handmade by two people who have seen it in person, Luke at Creekside Stones and Gems, and the Jeweler at the Nittany Mall, if you believe it's not, well that's okay.
They may know jewelry but do they repair toilets? LOL With millions of toilet chains manufactured over the years, I cant imagine them being handmade. I repaired toilets with this chain in the 1980's.
 

kyphote

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Re: Treasure Set in Stone UPDATED X-RAY PHOTOS

My favorite part about this journey could be the distance this bus has traveled. If you need me, I'll be in the last row listening contently and only budging when liqui's team of geo chemists needs room for their stuff. And don't even think about putting one of those communal fleece blankets on me!
 

Bigcypresshunter

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Re: Treasure Set in Stone UPDATED X-RAY PHOTOS

Over 7000 hits. Whos taking bets it will go 3 pages?
 

kyphote

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Re: Treasure Set in Stone UPDATED X-RAY PHOTOS

bigcypresshunter said:
Over 7000 hits. Whos taking bets it will go 3 pages?

I'll get up from my seat and take that bet. The toilet theory is leaking on some.
 

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1liquigirl

1liquigirl

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Jun 13, 2005
393
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Re: Treasure Set in Stone UPDATED X-RAY PHOTOS

I'll second the bet, are you two going to take it there? :wink:

Kyphote, communal fleece blankets? ??? :dontknow: What is that?

Can anyone tell me why all the metal objects in the X-ray are solid white, but the threaded stud or spring looking thing is see thru? If it was a modern bolt wouldn't it be a solid mass, therefore solid white as well?

Without busting this stone open, which I won't ever do, one thing is clear, it is a mish mosh of trinkets never to be used for their sole purpose ever again.
 

N.J.THer

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Re: Treasure Set in Stone UPDATED X-RAY PHOTOS

Ditto on the chain not being handmade. When I was working in plumbing we had a spool of this chain we used for repairs. I know nobody in that shop sat there and made it and the owner would not spend the extra money to get something handmade that would never be seen unless you lifted the tank lid.

I'm going to throw one more thing out there which is that the Atlantic Ocean was a trash dump for many years. NY and NJ dumped many barges full of trash including old toilets into those waters so your more likely to find trash then shipwreck pieces. Just google 'dumping trash in the Atlantic Ocean' for hours of reading material.

I wish it was something more but from the X-ray it looks quite clear that it is the inside portion of a toilet handle and the chain I think just confirms it.

31bPArX6DlL._SL500_AA300_.jpg


This is a picture of a modern version of what you have. I think this one is plastic since now they make nothing to last. In the past they were always metal with a metal chain attached.

Now you are one post closer to three pages. By the way it was at around three pages I started hating that silver counter that had 1 through 15 on it. That thread still gives me nightmares.
NJ
 

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1liquigirl

1liquigirl

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Re: Treasure Set in Stone UPDATED X-RAY PHOTOS

NJ, I see what you're saying. But, your picture has the rod bent at a 90 degree angle, the X-ray pic I posted on this page, does not have that angle bend. Unless you are referring to the left end of the rod near the circled metal object. But you can't see if that's 90 degrees or not. The circled piece could be the white piece on the end of the rod in your picture, I suppose. The chain should be on the other end of the rod (the right side), shouldn't it? It isn't, but then I suppose it could have broken off/detached itself. We just won't get positive IDs on the inside objects, because we will never see them. I'm not trying to say it isn't toilet pieces, it could be, but they made rods for many uses, and a few of you are just stuck on the toilet. The problem here is we've gotten stuck on the toilet and items that will never be positively IDed and the conversation should be on the coin, because if we have the time frame it was made, then we have a starting point as to when this mish mosh formed. A few more hours left and the Macro Pics will be shot. This evening I will upload them, thanks for all the replies and for watching all! :notworthy:
 

Blind Squirrel

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Re: Treasure Set in Stone UPDATED X-RAY PHOTOS

Are we there yet???? :tongue3:
 

richm

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Re: Treasure Set in Stone UPDATED X-RAY PHOTOS

:sleepy2:
 

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1liquigirl

1liquigirl

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Re: Treasure Set in Stone UPDATED X-RAY PHOTOS

Okay all, thanks for your patience. I have the Macro Pics, but they are 2.2 MB each, does anyone know how to shrink them to 1000 KB? I'm so technologically impaired. :crybaby2:

UPDATE: Jeff of PA, our wonderful moderator, will be resizing the pics for us. I'm sending the pics to his e-mail and he will be sending them back to me for posting. I'll notify you all when all the Pics are uploaded by changing the title of my thread to: Treasure Set in Stone UPDATED MACRO PICS AND X-RAY

UPDATE 2: Pictures sent to Jeff, just waiting to get them back
 

jeff of pa

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Re: Treasure Set in Stone UPDATED X-RAY PHOTOS

I Unfortunately never got your Pics :(
 

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1liquigirl

1liquigirl

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Re: Treasure Set in Stone UPDATED X-RAY PHOTOS

Ok, all, after alot of trouble getting the pictures to Jeff, and then as he had suggested, sending them to my own e-mail to get the KB down to size. I have finally pulled it off. And as promised here you go... the macro pics. I have to do this in segments. I'm starting with the pictures of other areas of the stone that I promised to take pictures of. Then the last 8 are coin photos, these are not zoomed in like the last ones, as I had all this trouble getting them smaller. I didn't think it would take this long, sorry all. But I hope you enjoy them and save them to your programs, zoom in and enjoy.... :thumbsup:
 

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1liquigirl

1liquigirl

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Re: Treasure Set in Stone UPDATED X-RAY PHOTOS

And now for the coin photos....... ;D
 

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1liquigirl

1liquigirl

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Re: Treasure Set in Stone UPDATED MACRO PICS AND X-RAY PHOTOS

Okay, up late, but I thought you all would want to see the closeup pics of the coin. I hope an ID is eminent. Here they are.....
 

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1liquigirl

1liquigirl

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Re: Treasure Set in Stone UPDATED MACRO PICS AND X-RAY PHOTOS

And the last, 'cuz I've Pic'd myself out. ID please?
 

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