Weiser's Gravesite

[dredgernaut]

there are more ruins in rogers canyon that no one knows of.. i showed ron and josh feldman where they are,, and ron said to me.. wow.. i have been in those mountains for more than 40 years and i never knew about them... and NO. its not an old line shack or cowboy cabin.. much older... rogers canyon has many unknowns still... just saying..

i have around 150 miles on my boots in that area..

 

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[azdave35]

there are more ruins in rogers canyon that no one knows of.. i showed ron and josh feldman where they are,, and ron said to me.. wow.. i have been in those mountains for more than 40 years and i never knew about them... and NO. its not an old line shack or cowboy cabin.. much older... rogers canyon has many unknowns still... just saying..

i have around 150 miles on my boots in that area..

that big fire cleared alot of brush ...i'm sure people will be discovering more out there now

 

[Cubfan64]

there are more ruins in rogers canyon that no one knows of.. i showed ron and josh feldman where they are,, and ron said to me.. wow.. i have been in those mountains for more than 40 years and i never knew about them... and NO. its not an old line shack or cowboy cabin.. much older... rogers canyon has many unknowns still... just saying..

i have around 150 miles on my boots in that area..

I'm not surprised to hear that - that's a very rough part of the mountains

 

[Barber..]

Barber,
That sounds very true.
I was hoping for ideas about stuff at ravine, to indicate weiser existed.

Well maybe you'll get lucky and he lost his drivers license out there..

 

[Cubfan64]

Barber,
That sounds very true.
I was hoping for ideas about stuff at ravine, to indicate weiser existed.

To be blunt, imho there's nothing you could find out there that would prove Jacob Weiser's existence short of something with his name on it and even then most people would believe that was planted there.

 

[azdave35]

To be blunt, imho there's nothing you could find out there that would prove Jacob Weiser's existence short of something with his name on it and even then most people would believe that was planted there.

back in the 70's a well known dutch hunter found the initials JW carved in stone in the supers..he thought he had hit the big time but it turned out to be nothing....probably someone playing a big joke

 

[gollum]

IMO and alot of other locals the mine has already been found....no bones or skeletons were found at the site

REALLY? Just to be clear...we are talking about Roger's? Absolutely no way the Silver Chief is the LDM.

Mikey

 

[azdave35]

REALLY? Just to be clear...we are talking about Roger's? Absolutely no way the Silver Chief is the LDM.

Mikey

go check out the thread on the pit mine....just the latest pages

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

REALLY? Just to be clear...we are talking about Roger's? Absolutely no way the Silver Chief is the LDM.

Mikey

What was it called? moromons stope or some such?

 

[gollum]

What was it called? moromons stope or some such?

The "Mormon Stope" was part of the Mammoth Mine. I was trying to be a little opaque, but the story is already out there, so............

A partially collapsed Pit Mine was discovered in Roger's Canyon many years ago. Without slogging through all the painful details.......................

Here is a pic of a buddy holding a chunk of the ore. It's my understanding that the crew dug about 210 feet of ore like this in a vein about 18 inches wide. I can understand why some people think it IS the LDM, but knowledge of actual facts preclude this possibility. It was a claim called the "Silver Chief". There had been a crapload of silver mines in the area, and there is no way Waltz could have gotten in and out of the area without being seen.

Just something you might enjoy; a pic of Bob Corbin's LDM Ore Ring:


It has excellent provenance. It was part of the 48 pounds of rich ore in a candlebox under Waltz's Bed when he died. One of the rings from this ore went to Brownie Holmes, who gave it to his daughter. When she died, he got the ring back. Kraig Roberts got the specimen from the ring and gave it to Helen Corbin who secretly had it set into this ring as a BDay Present. Still has it today.

Mike

 

[azdave35]

The "Mormon Stope" was part of the Mammoth Mine. I was trying to be a little opaque, but the story is already out there, so............

A partially collapsed Pit Mine was discovered in Roger's Canyon many years ago. Without slogging through all the painful details.......................
View attachment 1916015
Here is a pic of a buddy holding a chunk of the ore. It's my understanding that the crew dug about 210 feet of ore like this in a vein about 18 inches wide. I can understand why some people think it IS the LDM, but knowledge of actual facts preclude this possibility. It was a claim called the "Silver Chief". There had been a crapload of silver mines in the area, and there is no way Waltz could have gotten in and out of the area without being seen.

Just something you might enjoy; a pic of Bob Corbin's LDM Ore Ring:

View attachment 1916019
It has excellent provenance. It was part of the 48 pounds of rich ore in a candlebox under Waltz's Bed when he died. One of the rings from this ore went to Brownie Holmes, who gave it to his daughter. When she died, he got the ring back. Kraig Roberts got the specimen from the ring and gave it to Helen Corbin who secretly had it set into this ring as a BDay Present. Still has it today.

Mike

i guarantee i could have gotten in there and filled my backpack without getting caught...i've thought about this for a long time about why waltz never went to the mine but only a few times..i keep coming up with the fact that he never had a mine...if he did he would have made regular trips in and he would have had alot more gold than he had when he died....if he was high grading he more than likely didn't go in the mine and actually break the ore from the walls....if i had to guess i'd say he stole it from the stock pile that was already mined and headed to the mill...he probably only hit it once and took as much as he could....stashed what he could in the mountains and hauled what he could home...as i told you in our conversation it happened to me on my claim.....i had ore stockpiled and left it at the mine...it wasn't there when i came back...on that same claim back in the 70's they hit a pocket that ran 25 opt.....they had 4 55 gallon barrels full of the ore...the geologist they hired absconded with all 4 barrels....alot more gold is stolen than mined sometimes

 

[Idahodutch]

i guarantee i could have gotten in there and filled my backpack without getting caught...i've thought about this for a long time about why waltz never went to the mine but only a few times..i keep coming up with the fact that he never had a mine...if he did he would have made regular trips in and he would have had alot more gold than he had when he died....if he was high grading he more than likely didn't go in the mine and actually break the ore from the walls....if i had to guess i'd say he stole it from the stock pile that was already mined and headed to the mill...he probably only hit it once and took as much as he could....stashed what he could in the mountains and hauled what he could home...as i told you in our conversation it happened to me on my claim.....i had ore stockpiled and left it at the mine...it wasn't there when i came back...on that same claim back in the 70's they hit a pocket that ran 25 opt.....they had 4 55 gallon barrels full of the ore...the geologist they hired absconded with all 4 barrels....alot more gold is stolen than mined sometimes

Dave,
What you might do, does not mean someone else would do same thing.
Waltz gave account of why he didn’t go to his mine much.
In today’s terms, 50 pounds of high graded ore, that came from ground... more gold than quartz.
Is ~ a million dollars.

And I reread Bicknell 1895 article.... 6 Mexicans.... first 2 were working above ground breaking rock. ... naked. Waltz and Weiser thought they were Indians, and decided to shoot them.
Then 2 more popped up out of the mine shaft ... then 2 more. 6 in all.

Upon examining bodies, Waltz and Weiser were terrified , because they were Mexicans, not Indian..... the situation was now murder. (I guess if it were Indians..... then not murder).

They, Waltz and Weiser, decided to ........
It’s a very good article.

The accounts explain the actions.
You keep saying he stole it maybe....
You thought 2 Mexicans.... maybe you should reread that article also ... it’s a great refresher.
Also much more believable, than the colorful death bed story from the Holmes Manuscript.
We weren’t there, so we sift through things.
Waltz didn’t need to steal any gold.
And if someone finds the shaft mine the Mexicans might still be in it.
Bones, bullets and all.

And if there are about 6 or so bullets in bottom with bones, and are from 2 different caliber rifles,
One caliber a 45/70, and the other different.

That would not be proof, but it would be a very strong indication that the Bicknell account is pretty good.
Just have to see what’s in bottom of shaft.

Waltz and Weiser were working the shaft mine, Rose Quartz, when discovered an outcropping of white quartz, that was more gold than quartz.
So they put the 6 mexican’s bodies down the shaft mine, and worked the outcropping (LDM)
Both mines are gold mines.

I think the account may actually be true.

 

[Idahodutch]

If Weiser, was buried up inside of the outcrop mine (LDM), after killed by Indians, and later Waltz reburied LDM, with logs and such, I think he did a grave for Weiser and moved him.

If that was found, would not be proof, but would be another indicator of truth to the account.

 

[Idahodutch]

Why tell how to get to the LDM, then lie about Mexicans and Weiser?

I came across some information, that seems to indicate the moving of Weiser from LDM to another spot nearby.

Among other things, plans for this trip are to also check out that Weiser move info.
Hit or miss, I’ll give an update upon return.

I started the thread, asking a serious question.
If there is anything else, that someone can think of, I only have this trip. It will be my last.

 

[Cubfan64]

The "Mormon Stope" was part of the Mammoth Mine. I was trying to be a little opaque, but the story is already out there, so............

A partially collapsed Pit Mine was discovered in Roger's Canyon many years ago. Without slogging through all the painful details.......................
View attachment 1916015
Here is a pic of a buddy holding a chunk of the ore. It's my understanding that the crew dug about 210 feet of ore like this in a vein about 18 inches wide. I can understand why some people think it IS the LDM, but knowledge of actual facts preclude this possibility. It was a claim called the "Silver Chief". There had been a crapload of silver mines in the area, and there is no way Waltz could have gotten in and out of the area without being seen.

Just something you might enjoy; a pic of Bob Corbin's LDM Ore Ring:

View attachment 1916019
It has excellent provenance. It was part of the 48 pounds of rich ore in a candlebox under Waltz's Bed when he died. One of the rings from this ore went to Brownie Holmes, who gave it to his daughter. When she died, he got the ring back. Kraig Roberts got the specimen from the ring and gave it to Helen Corbin who secretly had it set into this ring as a BDay Present. Still has it today.

Mike

So here's where I'm struggling with this storyline...

If that rich gold ore was dug out of the Silver Chief mine in recent history - a mine that had been claimed and worked in the late 1800's, then that vein had obviously not been discovered by the original owners of the mine - if it had, they would surely have cleaned all that out.

I don't know all the specifics of the back story, but those folks who re-opened that mine in recent history had to have known or at the least VERY STRONGLY suspected there was rich gold in there - nobody in their right mind would risk fines/jail time by breaking the law on a whim. I know Ted Cox and his notes are the key to the recent "finders" having chosen that spot to dig out - does that mean Ted Cox and or those he was partners with located that rich gold vein at some point after the Silver Chief had stopped production and lay dormant? If so, why didn't Ted Cox etc... remove all that rich gold ore?

I'm clearly missing something in the storyline here.

Also Mike, your provenance explanation for the gold ore in Bob Corbin's ring is not how I understand it. Maybe it's correct but this is the first time I've heard anyone state that it came from the 48 pounds of gold ore in the candlebox or came out of the ring Brownie had given to his daughter. I was under the impression it came from a cache of ore found in the early 1900's.

 

[Cubfan64]

Dave,
What you might do, does not mean someone else would do same thing.
Waltz gave account of why he didn’t go to his mine much.
In today’s terms, 50 pounds of high graded ore, that came from ground... more gold than quartz.
Is ~ a million dollars.

And I reread Bicknell 1895 article.... 6 Mexicans.... first 2 were working above ground breaking rock. ... naked. Waltz and Weiser thought they were Indians, and decided to shoot them.
Then 2 more popped up out of the mine shaft ... then 2 more. 6 in all.

Upon examining bodies, Waltz and Weiser were terrified , because they were Mexicans, not Indian..... the situation was now murder. (I guess if it were Indians..... then not murder).

They, Waltz and Weiser, decided to ........
It’s a very good article.

The accounts explain the actions.
You keep saying he stole it maybe....
You thought 2 Mexicans.... maybe you should reread that article also ... it’s a great refresher.
Also much more believable, than the colorful death bed story from the Holmes Manuscript.
We weren’t there, so we sift through things.
Waltz didn’t need to steal any gold.
And if someone finds the shaft mine the Mexicans might still be in it.
Bones, bullets and all.

And if there are about 6 or so bullets in bottom with bones, and are from 2 different caliber rifles,
One caliber a 45/70, and the other different.

That would not be proof, but it would be a very strong indication that the Bicknell account is pretty good.
Just have to see what’s in bottom of shaft.

Waltz and Weiser were working the shaft mine, Rose Quartz, when discovered an outcropping of white quartz, that was more gold than quartz.
So they put the 6 mexican’s bodies down the shaft mine, and worked the outcropping (LDM)
Both mines are gold mines.

I think the account may actually be true.

Where did Bicknell get his information for the story? Bicknell was a newspaper writer and storyteller - that was his job. You don't think perhaps he may have "embellished" a bit? Why would you believe Bicknell's story but not the Holme's story other than the fact it fits with your theories?

 

[markmar]

Dave,
What you might do, does not mean someone else would do same thing.
Waltz gave account of why he didn’t go to his mine much.
In today’s terms, 50 pounds of high graded ore, that came from ground... more gold than quartz.
Is ~ a million dollars.

And I reread Bicknell 1895 article.... 6 Mexicans.... first 2 were working above ground breaking rock. ... naked. Waltz and Weiser thought they were Indians, and decided to shoot them.
Then 2 more popped up out of the mine shaft ... then 2 more. 6 in all.

Upon examining bodies, Waltz and Weiser were terrified , because they were Mexicans, not Indian..... the situation was now murder. (I guess if it were Indians..... then not murder).

They, Waltz and Weiser, decided to ........
It’s a very good article.

The accounts explain the actions.
You keep saying he stole it maybe....
You thought 2 Mexicans.... maybe you should reread that article also ... it’s a great refresher.
Also much more believable, than the colorful death bed story from the Holmes Manuscript.
We weren’t there, so we sift through things.
Waltz didn’t need to steal any gold.
And if someone finds the shaft mine the Mexicans might still be in it.
Bones, bullets and all.

And if there are about 6 or so bullets in bottom with bones, and are from 2 different caliber rifles,
One caliber a 45/70, and the other different.

That would not be proof, but it would be a very strong indication that the Bicknell account is pretty good.
Just have to see what’s in bottom of shaft.

Waltz and Weiser were working the shaft mine, Rose Quartz, when discovered an outcropping of white quartz, that was more gold than quartz.
So they put the 6 mexican’s bodies down the shaft mine, and worked the outcropping (LDM)
Both mines are gold mines.

I think the account may actually be true.

Idahodutch

The LDM inclined shaft has gold in white quartz ( like in the Bob Corbin's ring ), and a vein of gold in hematite mineral. The gold Waltz had under his deathbed was from the inclined shaft. Also the two smaller caches close to his camp, held ore from the inclined shaft.
The outcrop ( LDM pit mine/hole ) has gold in hematite quartz. I believe Waltz never kept ore from this mine, but maybe he sold it or sent it to relatives. A big amount of dug out ore , is still deposited in the mine.

 

[markmar]

The "Mormon Stope" was part of the Mammoth Mine. I was trying to be a little opaque, but the story is already out there, so............

A partially collapsed Pit Mine was discovered in Roger's Canyon many years ago. Without slogging through all the painful details.......................
View attachment 1916015
Here is a pic of a buddy holding a chunk of the ore. It's my understanding that the crew dug about 210 feet of ore like this in a vein about 18 inches wide. I can understand why some people think it IS the LDM, but knowledge of actual facts preclude this possibility. It was a claim called the "Silver Chief". There had been a crapload of silver mines in the area, and there is no way Waltz could have gotten in and out of the area without being seen.

Just something you might enjoy; a pic of Bob Corbin's LDM Ore Ring:

View attachment 1916019
It has excellent provenance. It was part of the 48 pounds of rich ore in a candlebox under Waltz's Bed when he died. One of the rings from this ore went to Brownie Holmes, who gave it to his daughter. When she died, he got the ring back. Kraig Roberts got the specimen from the ring and gave it to Helen Corbin who secretly had it set into this ring as a BDay Present. Still has it today.

Mike

IMHO, is not too hard for someone to prove the provenance of the said " Silver Chief " gold ore, but he don't do it for his own reasons. And maybe he do well to let it be like it is.
As I have wrote in the past , and also was an advice to RG, was someone to don't claim something which in the future could make a liar and a con man out of him. Is a matter of pride and character.
Many believe because something was not found yet ( at least in their life time or at the time of their claim ), never will be find. Never say never. A Greek proverb says: " Nothing remains hidden under the sunlight ".

 

[Idahodutch]

Idahodutch

The LDM inclined shaft has gold in white quartz ( like in the Bob Corbin's ring ), and a vein of gold in hematite mineral. The gold Waltz had under his deathbed was from the inclined shaft. Also the two smaller caches close to his camp, held ore from the inclined shaft.
The outcrop ( LDM pit mine/hole ) has gold in hematite quartz. I believe Waltz never kept ore from this mine, but maybe he sold it or sent it to relatives. A big amount of dug out ore , is still deposited in the mine.

Thank you Markmar,
Lol .... I am not a miner and guess it shows.

 

[azdave35]

Thank you Markmar,
Lol .... I am not a miner and guess it shows.

you just hit the nail right on the head...99% of dutch hunters in the supers have no knowledge of geology or mining...they don't have a snowballs chance of finding a mine..they think every hole in the ground they see is the ldm...chances are it isn't even a gold mine...they mine other minerals too such as lead and copper and silver