Identification help requested - Beaded article, possible headband or hatband

[TheInspector]

Please excuse the cross post from the Fur Trade Artifact forum, as it was suggested I post here for more expert views.

A couple of years ago my Mother mentioned that my deceased Stepdad had some type of Indian something. I asked my Mom about it over the Thanksgiving holiday, and took these photos. This was mentioned at the same time as another item that I believe was passed down from his ancestors. I believe these items may be related, and I have my theories, but will keep them to myself until I get some information based upon just this item. Basically I am wondering what this is? What tribe and era is it from?
Thanks for your help!

P.S. I tried to replace lower resolution pictures with better ones but the lower res copies wont go away..

 

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[quito]

Looks like a belt to me. how long is it?

 

[TheInspector]

Looks like a belt to me. how long is it?

I wasn't smart enough to measure it that day, but a pretty close estimate is 22" to 24"

Thanks for the help.

 

[RGINN]

Pretty cool. They've used the lazy stitch and applique stitch. I haven't seen symbols like that used by anybody I know, so I couldn't say it might be from a certain tribe. Might be something from Mexico. It's not quality work, but a lot of work, so I don't think it was something just whipped out for the tourist trade. There is a very good chance you can date the era it came from though. Is it stitched with sinew, cotton, or polyester thread? Do some research on the seed beads used, particularly the ones used in the stars, as those colors caught my eye. There is pretty good info available on when certain styles, types, and colors became available for trade or sale. Sorry to run on, but I do know a little about beadwork.

 

[TheInspector]

Pretty cool. They've used the lazy stitch and applique stitch. I haven't seen symbols like that used by anybody I know, so I couldn't say it might be from a certain tribe. Might be something from Mexico. It's not quality work, but a lot of work, so I don't think it was something just whipped out for the tourist trade. There is a very good chance you can date the era it came from though. Is it stitched with sinew, cotton, or polyester thread? Do some research on the seed beads used, particularly the ones used in the stars, as those colors caught my eye. There is pretty good info available on when certain styles, types, and colors became available for trade or sale. Sorry to run on, but I do know a little about beadwork.

Thanks RGINN,
I'm happy to find someone who knows something about beadwork. I have added some higher resolution versions above. Perhaps you can get a better look at the beads and thread.

Thanks again.

 

[Peter Iredale]

Looks like a child made that

 

[TheInspector]

Looks like a child made that

Maybe so, but not me.
I wasn't alive then.

 

[RGINN]

Still looking at it. I had some Kiowas in Oklahoma look at a pic of it and they didn't recognize the symbols as anything they would use. I can't find the use of the type beads used in the stars by anybody, as that's an unusual color to see, but there were a lot of obscure tribes who don't have much history left. I wouldn't say it was made by a child, cause not everybody had the same level of skill in beadworking. Just a wild guess, I would say it's late 19th century. Sometimes before but particularly after the start of the 20th century articles like this were loom beaded and attached to a backing. The beads appear to be Czech manufacture and size 10/0. And it could be something made up for rituals of a local lodge or plays with Indians in them. And if they load, here's a pic of some examples of modern beadwork. On the left is a neckerchief slide made of delica beads, which are fine to work with as they are exactly the same size. On the right the dream catcher is made with the same type beads as your item. These beads are irregular in size, so I had to cull them to get the design to come out right. Both are the peyote stitch, or gourd stitch.

 

[TheInspector]

Still looking at it. I had some Kiowas in Oklahoma look at a pic of it and they didn't recognize the symbols as anything they would use. I can't find the use of the type beads used in the stars by anybody, as that's an unusual color to see, but there were a lot of obscure tribes who don't have much history left. I wouldn't say it was made by a child, cause not everybody had the same level of skill in beadworking. Just a wild guess, I would say it's late 19th century. Sometimes before but particularly after the start of the 20th century articles like this were loom beaded and attached to a backing. The beads appear to be Czech manufacture and size 10/0. And it could be something made up for rituals of a local lodge or plays with Indians in them. And if they load, here's a pic of some examples of modern beadwork. On the left is a neckerchief slide made of delica beads, which are fine to work with as they are exactly the same size. On the right the dream catcher is made with the same type beads as your item. These beads are irregular in size, so I had to cull them to get the design to come out right. Both are the peyote stitch, or gourd stitch.

Thanks for all the information and that pretty fine beadwork.

My stepdads ancestor who we believe was the source of this item was a veteran of The Texas Revolution, Sheriff of Sabine County and a Mounted Volunteer for Frontier Defense. This would put the likely time of acquisition 1830 to 1860. There may be a tie to what I believe to be Sam Houston's pocket ledger, also from my stepdad. I have been working on information on that item for several months.
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/what-s-worth/466510-what-appears-sam-houston-s-pocket-ledger.html
Sam Houston spent a lot of time with the Cherokee before coming out west, and then married a Cherokee woman and operated an trading post near The Red River. Sam Houston presented a Cherokee bandolier bag to Andrew Jackson made by the tribes back East.. That bag is a world of difference in quality from my Moms item, but in 1830's Sam was spending a lot of time with Chief Bowles in East Texas and I have found a couple of accounts of Sam Houston receiving handmade gifts from Chief Bowles daughter, Mary. Eight days before The Battle of San Jacinto, Sam Houston wrote a letter to Chief Bowles in which he asks the chief to tell his daughter that he has not yet worn out the moccasins he received. Here is a link to a Sam Houston moccasin in The San Jacinto Museum. PERSONAL ARTIFACTS - MOCCASIN Detail, if you notice it is listed as having lazy stitch beadwork.
I see seven, five pointed stars, a moon, a turtle, arrow / spear?, and a fish with an arrow through it. I have not found other five pointed stars in Native American items except the hat of Chief Bowles in the illustration from the Texas State Archives https://www.tsl.texas.gov/exhibits/indian/early/page1.html and the Cherokee Peace Flag which has seven, five pointed stars, as seen here Cherokee Nation - Flags
As you can see, I am assigning it to what I wish to be true, but I am more than willing to accept what ever the real answer is.
I think its pretty cool anyway I look at it.
Again thanks,

 

[RGINN]

It is pretty cool. I think it dates later than 1860 though. Here's something you might try. Contact the Panhandle Plains Historical Museum out in Canyon, Texas and let them look at it, they're always lookin at strange Texas artifacts. They might have an idea on it. Plus a great place to visit if you ever get out that way.

 

[TheInspector]

It is pretty cool. I think it dates later than 1860 though. Here's something you might try. Contact the Panhandle Plains Historical Museum out in Canyon, Texas and let them look at it, they're always lookin at strange Texas artifacts. They might have an idea on it. Plus a great place to visit if you ever get out that way.

You know much more about it than I do, so I respect your opinion. I will attempt to contact the Panhandle Plains Historical Museum. If you come up with any other ideas, I would appreciate hearing them.

Kindest Regards,

 

[TheInspector]

I think it dates later than 1860 though.

RGINN, can you tell me where to find information on how to identify and date bead types?

My research so far is leading me towards the band originating from a Woodlands Culture Tribe, possibly Delaware. This would tie in with my Sam Houston connection, but obviously not if it is a sure deal that the beads were not around during that time period.
Please see the link below that was collected by the Smithsonian in 1868. I would assume it was constructed a good number of years before that.
Five Pointed Star Beaded Pouch in Smithsonian Museum

Thanks,