$1,000,000 for anyone who can dowse.

[Goodyguy]

Oh, so you didn't understand any of it.

Sorry.
Read the part in red s l o w l y.

Seriously, Goodyguy, you could easily apply for this challenge and meet the criteria without much trouble. A newspaper, any local rag, is always looking for good, uplifting stories. It would be a cinch to call the paper, tell them that you would like to be interviewed about your dowsing, that during the interview you would love if a reporter could take the story and run with it, and you could even ask the reporter if they wanted to bring along an academic (doctor, professor, scientist) who would also witness your dowsing. To top it off, tell them that everything you manage to find during the display would be donated to charity after. You could take care of all the steps necessary for you application in a single afternoon.

Now read this s l o w l y.

"I am someone who knows for himself that dowsing does work and is not out to try and convince skeptics that it does. I also am not out looking for any publicity or notoriety."

GG~

Now which word do you not understand?

Come on AF get real, or at least get a dictionary.

GG~

 

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[ClonedSIM]

Oh, so you didn't understand any of it.

Sorry.
Read the part in red s l o w l y.

Seriously, Goodyguy, you could easily apply for this challenge and meet the criteria without much trouble. A newspaper, any local rag, is always looking for good, uplifting stories. It would be a cinch to call the paper, tell them that you would like to be interviewed about your dowsing, that during the interview you would love if a reporter could take the story and run with it, and you could even ask the reporter if they wanted to bring along an academic (doctor, professor, scientist) who would also witness your dowsing. To top it off, tell them that everything you manage to find during the display would be donated to charity after. You could take care of all the steps necessary for you application in a single afternoon.

"I also am not out looking for any publicity or notoriety."
Now which word do you not understand?

Come on AF get real, or at least get a dictionary.

GG~

So that's the excuse you're going to stick with, is it??

Are you telling me that you're perfectly willing to show the folks at the JREF that you can dowse well enough to beat their tests and take their money, but the only thing holding you back is the fact that you couldn't possibly handle the attention of one newspaper article? What do you think is going to happen, the world will start beating down your door?

GG, buddy, you need to study this thread a little harder. Dowsers with far less intelligence have come up with far more plausible reasons not to attempt the challenge.....

 

[Goodyguy]

Below is my original statement and I stand by it.

" I thought I would take the $1,000,000,00 challenge myself. However after reading the rules, especially the one that said you had to be some kind of a media celebrity to qualify, it became clear they didn't want just any ordinary person who could dowse. They wanted a high profile person to discredit for their own reasons. Not just someone who could prove dowsing does work!"

GG~

af1733, buddy,
I owe no one any further explanation. It was written so anyone of any intelligence could understand. Sorry if you had trouble with it.

GG~

 

[ClonedSIM]

Below is my original statement and I stand by it.

" I thought I would take the $1,000,000,00 challenge myself. However after reading the rules, especially the one that said you had to be some kind of a media celebrity to qualify, it became clear they didn't want just any ordinary person who could dowse. They wanted a high profile person to discredit for their own reasons. Not just someone who could prove dowsing does work!"

GG~

af1733, buddy,
I owe no one any further explanation. It was written so anyone of any intelligence could understand. Sorry if you had trouble with it.

GG~

Media celebrity....high profile... These are your terms, not theirs, applied after you read a paragraph from the JREF's application.

It's excuse you're applying here, not intelligence.

 

[Goodyguy]

This is the last one af1733 then I am only going to respond to the adults.

" And anonymity can be included at the outset of the challenge if you so desire."

It's as if you're using your demand for privacy as an excuse not to even try..... A dowser looking for an excuse not to dowse......??

Maybe you haven't read the rules.

Rule # 4. Applicant agrees that all data (photographic, recorded, written, etc.) gathered as a result of the setup, the protocol, and the actual testing, may be used freely by the JREF.

Now does that sound like anonymity to you?

And I am sorry if you are naive enough to think that the Amazing Randi and his million dollar challenge is meant to do anything other than to discredit any applicant that attempts to win the prize.

Lastly would any intelligent person agree to rule #8 below, basically giving JREF permission to rig the outcome of your test with impunity?

Rule # 8. When entering into this challenge, as far as this may be done by established legal statutes, the applicant surrenders any and all rights to legal action against Mr. Randi, and/or against any persons peripherally involved, and/or against the James Randi Educational Foundation. This applies to injury, and/or accident, and/or any other damage of a physical and/or emotional nature, and/or financial and/or professional loss, and/or damage of any kind. However, this rule in no way affects the awarding of the prize, once it is properly won in accord with the protocol.

No need to reply af1733, if you intend on a response from me, as this is my last post to you regarding this subject.

I apologize to the good people on this forum for taking up this space and time to address such ludicrous questioning of my reasoning for not trying to qualify to apply to take the challenge.


GG~

 

[ClonedSIM]

This is the last one af1733 then I am only going to respond to the adults.

" And anonymity can be included at the outset of the challenge if you so desire."

It's as if you're using your demand for privacy as an excuse not to even try..... A dowser looking for an excuse not to dowse......??

Maybe you haven't read the rules.

Rule # 4. Applicant agrees that all data (photographic, recorded, written, etc.) gathered as a result of the setup, the protocol, and the actual testing, may be used freely by the JREF.

Now does that sound like anonymity to you?

And I am sorry if you are naive enough to think that the Amazing Randi and his million dollar challenge is meant to do anything other than to discredit any applicant that attempts to win the prize.

Lastly would any intelligent person agree to this rule basically giving JREF permission to rig the outcome of your test with impunity?

Rule # 8. When entering into this challenge, as far as this may be done by established legal statutes, the applicant surrenders any and all rights to legal action against Mr. Randi, and/or against any persons peripherally involved, and/or against the James Randi Educational Foundation. This applies to injury, and/or accident, and/or any other damage of a physical and/or emotional nature, and/or financial and/or professional loss, and/or damage of any kind. However, this rule in no way affects the awarding of the prize, once it is properly won in accord with the protocol.

No need to reply af1733, if you intend on a response from me, as this is my last post to you regarding this subject.

I apologize to the good people on this forum for taking up this space and time to address such ludicrous questioning of my reasoning for not trying to qualify to apply to take the challenge.


GG~

Do you mean the adults here that wander around holding bent coat-hangers as a hobby? Or is it only people that agree with you....??

I would explain the term "boilerplate" to you right about now, but apparently it would fall on deaf ears.....

Do you consider yourself one of the open-minded dowsers of this forum? Most dowsers here claim this trait but, like yourself, don't seem to practice what they preach. You have it firmly set in your head that you will somehow be cheated by this challenge. That it's somehow rigged as to cause you to fail. In addition, you seem to believe that you could handily defeat the challenge but, darn-it-all!!! They only want celebrities now! If only one of the many, many applicants that came before you could dowse!! And now, you show up on your white horse, dowsing rods blazing, only to be thwarted by a steaming pile of legalese.....

Would you turn down a million dollars if you peeled a game piece off a cup from McDonald's? Their ads boast, almost word-for-word, the same "winner allows likeness to be used in further advertisements" jargon. You'd probably turn it down, for you are far too noble.....

And as far as your apologetic "I'm so sorry for all of this talk" line, well, the title of the thread is called "$1,000,000 for anyone who can dowse".... Did you want to discuss something else?

 

[aarthrj3811]

These facts disappeared from Randi’s Web site after they were posted here on T-Net

Gee....Started to make Dowsers aware of the challenge....Like this is the first time we have disccussed this. One good thing about this thread' it made me look into Randi's Challenge. The challenge has been run for 42 years. l010 people have filed applications. Out of those 1010 people a few have taken the preliminary test. All have failed. No one has taken the money test but Randi is on TV giving people the $1,000,000 test. Is this called a hoax or publicity stunt? How is this possible if no one has taken the final test/ Out of all the people in the world an average of 20 people a year place applications for the challenge. I think I will be like the millions of other people and just say "NO" to Randi.
And You know this ...How...Don't you think that it is a little funny that in 42 years NO ONE has taken the test for the money? Do you think that all these Dowsers are failing the pre-test and this is not on his web site? I and every one else have saw on National TV people failing the test for the money. How can this be if NO ONE has passed the pre-test? Are these commerical to raise money for the foundation. I have a lot of questions about this so called Challenge
The other case is that Randi does waive the pre-test requirement, usually during media events or for high-profile cases. When you see him on TV testing someone for the $1 million, there was no pre-test... that is the real test they are doing.
Hey Angel 09....Thats all you will get from them. Did you know that no one has passed a pre-test for Randi's Challenge. Did you know that NO-ONE has taken the Challenge for the big bucks in 42 years. The Tests you see on TV are MEDIA-EVENTS. There is no easy place to learn if any Dowser has taken the pre-test or has even ask to take it. Just a few facts about the Challenge...Art

 

[ClonedSIM]

These facts disappeared from Randi’s Web site after they were posted here on T-Net

Gee....Started to make Dowsers aware of the challenge....Like this is the first time we have disccussed this. One good thing about this thread' it made me look into Randi's Challenge. The challenge has been run for 42 years. l010 people have filed applications. Out of those 1010 people a few have taken the preliminary test. All have failed. No one has taken the money test but Randi is on TV giving people the $1,000,000 test. Is this called a hoax or publicity stunt? How is this possible if no one has taken the final test/ Out of all the people in the world an average of 20 people a year place applications for the challenge. I think I will be like the millions of other people and just say "NO" to Randi.
And You know this ...How...Don't you think that it is a little funny that in 42 years NO ONE has taken the test for the money? Do you think that all these Dowsers are failing the pre-test and this is not on his web site? I and every one else have saw on National TV people failing the test for the money. How can this be if NO ONE has passed the pre-test? Are these commerical to raise money for the foundation. I have a lot of questions about this so called Challenge
The other case is that Randi does waive the pre-test requirement, usually during media events or for high-profile cases. When you see him on TV testing someone for the $1 million, there was no pre-test... that is the real test they are doing.
Hey Angel 09....Thats all you will get from them. Did you know that no one has passed a pre-test for Randi's Challenge. Did you know that NO-ONE has taken the Challenge for the big bucks in 42 years. The Tests you see on TV are MEDIA-EVENTS. There is no easy place to learn if any Dowser has taken the pre-test or has even ask to take it. Just a few facts about the Challenge...Art

You've copied your own post here, Art. Surely you realize that just because you've typed something doesn't mean it's a fact, right?

As for the television tests, I'm quite sure that Randi waived the pre-test for these individuals. Why? It makes for entertaining television, for one. So what if it's a media event? The dowsers taking the test knew this ahead of time, I'm sure, but it didn't stop them from trying. If you want to place blame on someone, blame the failed dowsers. They're the ones that thought they could dowse but folded when the pressure was on.

At any rate, since you're making assumptions about almost everything in your post, you're just displaying your close-mindedness again.

 

[dowser]

I haven't been reading all the posts on this topic, so I'm not sure whats up.. But for the challenge, i accept!!!

Here's how I'll prove it.. Lets pick a state with relatively flat land, how about Kansas. The reason i picked Kansas is because of all the supposed Meteorites in that state..

I don't care which property this is done on, as long as it;s not in the city. The property has to be owned by someone with mineral right ownership, and allow digging, possible heavy equipment retrieval, and legal rights to any possible meteorites on property.

Using ONLY L-rods to dowse with, and no machine assistance, I DOWSER, can and will dowse location on five different meteorites 100lbs or more.. I will pinpoint location, tell you the depth and diameter of the objects. If there isn't sufficient large meteorites on the property we can shift to another, just to fill the quota,, I don't care..

Of course i could have said any number, but isn't five proof enough?? And how long do you think this will take? Less than a day to locate them, mayby longer to retrieve them without damage..

 

[ClonedSIM]

I haven't been reading all the posts on this topic, so I'm not sure whats up.. But for the challenge, i accept!!!

Here's how I'll prove it.. Lets pick a state with relatively flat land, how about Kansas. The reason i picked Kansas is because of all the supposed Meteorites in that state..

I don't care which property this is done on, as long as it;s not in the city. The property has to be owned by someone with mineral right ownership, and allow digging, possible heavy equipment retrieval, and legal rights to any possible meteorites on property.

Using ONLY L-rods to dowse with, and no machine assistance, I DOWSER, can and will dowse location on five different meteorites 100lbs or more.. I will pinpoint location, tell you the depth and diameter of the objects. If there isn't sufficient large meteorites on the property we can shift to another, just to fill the quota,, I don't care..

Of course i could have said any number, but isn't five proof enough?? And how long do you think this will take? Less than a day to locate them, mayby longer to retrieve them without damage..

I don't think these terms would be acceptable.

I gotta agree, there's just too much room for shenanigans. It's important for the test to be in a controlled environment using known targets. Who knows, though, Randi might just jump at this challenge. How much are 100 pound meteorites going for these days??

 

[dowser]

Shenanigans? I've never been to Kansas before.. It seems to me that if i can do what i propose, that it would prove Dowsing does work., and if the money and challenge is authentic, the person wanting the proof would consider this an impossible task, unless he believes Dowsing really does work and the money isn't really offered, because of fear of loosing it..
Oh, by the way, i'm serious, and i can accomplish what i stated, so have the check ready and get ahold of me...
Also realize i stated i would find five 100lbs. or better, i could have made it easier for myself and just said five any size., but i thought i would make it a little tuffer for myself.. Dowser

 

[aarthrj3811]

You see people lose the challenge but yet no one has been tested for the challenge…..Strange

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/component/content/article/37-static/254-jref-challenge-faq.html
_____
1. Challenge History
1.1 How long has this Challenge been open?
The Challenge was first introduced in 1964 when James Randi offered $1,000 of his own money to the first person who could offer proof of the paranormal. When the word got out, donors began stepping forward to help, and soon the prize had grown to One Million Dollars.
1.2 Where did Randi get this great idea for a Challenge?
During a live radio panel discussion, James Randi was challenged by a parapsychologist to "put [his] money where [his] mouth is", and Randi responded by offering to pay $1,000 to anyone who could demonstrate paranormal powers in a controlled test.
1.3 How many people have applied for the Challenge?
Between 1964 and 1982, Randi declared that over 650 people had applied. Between 1997 and February 15, 2005, there had been a total of 360 official, notarized applications. Applications continue to pour in!
1.4 Has anyone ever gotten past the preliminary test?
No. Some people use this fact as a reason not to apply – and yet the protocol is never altered once the applicant agrees to it. In fact, we ask the applicant to design the test.
1.5 Has anyone taken the formal test?
No. Applicants must pass the preliminary test in order to move on to a formal test. So far, no one has ever performed the paranormal ability they claimed to have.

If Dowsing works it is not considered a paranormal abilty so you lose...Art

 

[Libralabsoldier]

Paranioa, recrimination, accusations.

At least Randi has proven that his million dollars exist. What about the money that Ken Hovind supposedly had to give to anyone who could "prove" evolution worked? Easy on the surface for anyone first year biology student, then once you read the actual parameters, the test was impossible. At least Randi has rules, witnesses, and records the challenges and attempts.

Pure and simple. IF dowsing worked, it would work for everyone. If it is some psychic "feeling" and cannot be measured or quantified, then it is not scientific.

 

[ClonedSIM]

Shenanigans? I've never been to Kansas before.. It seems to me that if i can do what i propose, that it would prove Dowsing does work., and if the money and challenge is authentic, the person wanting the proof would consider this an impossible task, unless he believes Dowsing really does work and the money isn't really offered, because of fear of loosing it..
Oh, by the way, i'm serious, and i can accomplish what i stated, so have the check ready and get ahold of me...
Also realize i stated i would find five 100lbs. or better, i could have made it easier for myself and just said five any size., but i thought i would make it a little tuffer for myself.. Dowser

Let me ask you this, Dowser. Why would you propose a test that would force you to locate five 100 pound meteorites in a field where you have no guarantee of finding even one meteorite? If the field you choose doesn't have the required number of meteorites in it, then you would fail, plain and simple. And there's not a person in this world that can prove, without prior knowledge, that any field will contain any certain number of meteorites. Can you understand why I chose the word shenanigans?

What's wrong with the old "bar of gold under a paper plate" test? Surely, if you're confident enough in yourself to claim to be able to locate meteorites of a particular size, finding a single gold bar under 15 or so paper plates would be a cinch. Do it 20 times in a row, and there you go!

 

[dowser]

Pippin, i'm in northern Michigan now..

I have plenty of confidense that i can do it.. There's plenty of Meteorites here, and i believe Kansas has more than Michigan.. Also, I can signal a 100 pounder about a half mile, anything bigger signals further.
I can easily discriminate what is or not a Meteorite, and i'm not limited to depth, but i've never hit one below 12 ft., i'm sure i'll run into some that could be even 20 ft. plus , which could be a problem on retrieving..
I once read that in every square mile there is 10 Meteorites. I also heard that Kansas has more. And yes there might not be five big one on the land checked, but with a platt map and some research as to who owns the land one's on, they might be interested in a split.. I was only trying to get the Million, which would have been fun to try.. I'm not out to do parlor tricks, with paper plates, i don't need to prove it to myself.. If no one wants to come up with the money, then i'll let it be..

If my challenge was accepted, everybody was invited, all the scientists, and skeptics and fellow Dowsers ...

 

[Rich NY]

This is one reason why nobody should not waste there time on the Randi challenge.

http://www.skepticalinvestigations.org/exam/Prescott_Randi.htm

 

[Rich NY]

I'm basing my opinion on Mr. Prescotts research. If you are going to be tested on your abilities, and someone is going to be both judge and jury, they should be honest and trustworthy.



http://www.skepticalinvestigations.org/exam/Prescott_Randi.htm

 

[ClonedSIM]

Pippin, i'm in northern Michigan now..

I have plenty of confidense that i can do it.. There's plenty of Meteorites here, and i believe Kansas has more than Michigan.. Also, I can signal a 100 pounder about a half mile, anything bigger signals further.
I can easily discriminate what is or not a Meteorite, and i'm not limited to depth, but i've never hit one below 12 ft., i'm sure i'll run into some that could be even 20 ft. plus , which could be a problem on retrieving..
I once read that in every square mile there is 10 Meteorites. I also heard that Kansas has more. And yes there might not be five big one on the land checked, but with a platt map and some research as to who owns the land one's on, they might be interested in a split.. I was only trying to get the Million, which would have been fun to try.. I'm not out to do parlor tricks, with paper plates, i don't need to prove it to myself.. If no one wants to come up with the money, then i'll let it be..

If my challenge was accepted, everybody was invited, all the scientists, and skeptics and fellow Dowsers ...

This excuse has been used before, and it still doesn't hold water. You do understand that the whole point of the challenge is to prove that dowsing works, right?

Whether to yourself or to someone else, proof has to be presented in order to be considered a success in this challenge. This is the reason we've pointed out the flaws in your meteroite test in regards to the challenge. The JREF won't have any way of knowing, without a doubt, that something you find in a supposedly random field is proof. The one sure way to do this is laid out several time so their site.

Just because you show up here and demand the JREF test you using unreasonable conditions doesn't give you the right to proclaim their challenge as bunk. There is a set of rules that must be adhered to, and they've never tried to pretend anything else was the truth.

 

[aarthrj3811]

http://things.auditblogs.com/2009/05/29/the-phd-effect-and-scientific-prediction/

One of my personal inspirations to look at the Universe through scientific eyes is not a scientist at all, but a conjurer, escape artist and illusionist called James “The Amazing” Randi.

Randi (as he is frequently called) is now semi-retired from show business, but is fully engaged in making speeches and writing books on the paranormal, upon hucksters and scam–artists, on fake psychics like Uri Geller and Sylvia Browne and all sorts of flim-flam that causes gullible people to be separated from their money. He does this through his own charitable Foundation, the James Randi Educational Foundation, based in Fort Lauderdale, Florida.

Now many people are beguiled into thinking that Randi is some mere conjurer. He most certainly is much more than that. Randi is a genius of first rank and a highly original thinker whose persistence has infuriated many counsels of the “great and the good” including that most precious of elites, the PhD scientists of academe.

It’s not that Randi is against PhDs or the people that have PhDs. He is a blessed and trusted friend to many people who possess those qualifications and more. He was a great friend of Isaac Asimov, Carl Sagan and Richard Feynman.

Its simply that in his long observation of PhD scientists that some of them are peculiarly blind to their own deficiencies as observers, thinkers or even experimenters, and can be fooled by simple trickery or deluded by chance or human error into believing the most preposterous of nonsenses. (Things I don’t understand)

 

[ClonedSIM]

http://things.auditblogs.com/2009/05/29/the-phd-effect-and-scientific-prediction/

One of my personal inspirations to look at the Universe through scientific eyes is not a scientist at all, but a conjurer, escape artist and illusionist called James “The Amazing” Randi.

Randi (as he is frequently called) is now semi-retired from show business, but is fully engaged in making speeches and writing books on the paranormal, upon hucksters and scam–artists, on fake psychics like Uri Geller and Sylvia Browne and all sorts of flim-flam that causes gullible people to be separated from their money. He does this through his own charitable Foundation, the James Randi Educational Foundation, based in Fort Lauderdale, Florida.

Now many people are beguiled into thinking that Randi is some mere conjurer. He most certainly is much more than that. Randi is a genius of first rank and a highly original thinker whose persistence has infuriated many counsels of the “great and the good” including that most precious of elites, the PhD scientists of academe.

It’s not that Randi is against PhDs or the people that have PhDs. He is a blessed and trusted friend to many people who possess those qualifications and more. He was a great friend of Isaac Asimov, Carl Sagan and Richard Feynman.

Its simply that in his long observation of PhD scientists that some of them are peculiarly blind to their own deficiencies as observers, thinkers or even experimenters, and can be fooled by simple trickery or deluded by chance or human error into believing the most preposterous of nonsenses. (Things I don’t understand)

Well I'll be.... Art finally posted soemthing that makes sense, even if it did come from a blog.....

But now you have to wonder if Art really understands that all most blogs only consist of is one person's opinion......