1715 Spanish fleet wreck FL, ships NOT found

[Treasurecoast1715]

What ships haven't been found. Researching online I am seeing many different versions. Best I can find is that 4 never have been found. Anyone know?

 

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[Booty Salvage]

Seems like most people agree with that. What we need is positive identification of the wrecks already found. That would help narrow it down

 

[ivan salis]

according to what I can figger out historically speaking -- there was 11 Spanish vessels in all in the 1715 fleet along with the French vessel Griffon * -- the Griffon survived by splitting away from the bulk of the 1715 fleet about 1 1/2 days prior to the main storm hitting the fleet and sailing a different course from the 1715 fleet --she went to Brest , France--- all of Ubilla's fleet (5 vessels) and both of the royal treasure vessels of Echeverz's fleet were ordered to stick together by Ubilla as the storm closed in on the fleet (being Ubilla was both "in charge and also responsible to account for the kings treasure --he wanted them under his eyes to watch over.)--Echeverz also told the "dutch prize vessel" known as "Olandesa" to stay with him and the two royal treasure vessels from his fleet -- the other 3 vessels from Echeverz fleets were told to sail whatever course they thought best --so they too took a different more "northly course" much like the griffon did but they took it at a much later time than the Griffon did --which is most likely why the Griffon survived but they did not -- of the vessels salmon reported -- 9 vessels are known to be lost (the 8 that wrecked more or less close to one another plus 1 other that was reported on ) --all 5 of Ubilla's fleet plus 3 from Echeverz fleet --plus news that 4 survivors were found after floating on a hatchcover for 2 days at the cape area * from one of the 3 northerly course vessels (the conception)--Salmon also stated that of the 2 "galleons" that are are missing , they are thought to have sank on the "high seas" - " because wreckage of a large vessel or vessels was found on the (north shore / or / shore north) of St Augustine --(* there are translation issues of the phrasing from Spanish to English-)-- note Echeverz's fleet was called "the galleons de terra firme" thus the 2 "galleons" refers to the 2 missing Echeverz fleet vessels --El Ciervo (the French prize vessel) and the Nao (tobacco hauler) San Miguel ---

there are 8 vessels of the 1715 fleet that sank fairly close to one another in the main 1715 known wreck site area -- all 5 of Ubilal's fleet --plus both of the royal treasure vessels from Echevez's fleet and the Dutch prize vessel known as "Olandesa" --we know the dutch vessel broke up upon hitting the shallow bottom close to shore and that its upper deck works split off and came ashore much like a giant surf board would --since the upper deck works(rooms) were used for shelter during the salvage work -- Echeverz even wrote a letter stating from the "real (salvage camp) of the Olandesa. "

by my accounting of the 11 vessels in the Spanish 1715 fleet --8 are in the main wreck site area -- 1 the Conception is lost somewhere around the cape area --and 2 are as of yet unaccounted for at all - with a chance that they sank somewhere around the St Augustine area (due to salmon's statement of record.)

 

[LM]

Mr Salis' recounting is pretty close to my own understanding.

The St Johns County (St Augustine) shoreline isn't known for colonial treasure activity so I think we can safely assume they didn't break up in the shallows. There was a bar notorious for wrecking incoming ships that has known wrecks going back to the sixteenth century, the St Aug coast is a major ships graveyard- as a kid, I used to pick up Delftware fragments and never bothered even keeping them unless they were the size of my palm- but it isn't an active 'treasure scatter' site.

One possibility I always considered is that one of the ships survived and, knowing that the rest of the fleet had been wiped out and the same would be presumed about them should they not return, made port somewhere in the new world, with the crew living 'comfortably' ever after.

 

[ivan salis]

pst evidence of 1715 era fleet type goods have been found in the past around the Nassau sound area -- namely the southern tip of Amelia island and northern area of Talbot island along the Nassau sound area -- funny thing * the state of Florida which normally allows for beach metal detecting at state parks that have a beach has shut off metal detecting "on Talbot island's beach area " on the northern area along Nassau sound --funny what one can find "beach combing" with ones eyes after a strong nor easter storm rolls thru if one knows what to look for . --of course any and all treasure items found should be turned in right away to the "proper state of Florida authorities"

from the info I have gleaned -- a rescue and recovery vessel --a barcalonga was sent from Havana , Cuba to the 1715 wrecksites to pick up royal treasure and VIP type people , while enroute from the wrecksites to spain it wrecked in Nassau sound * that is why the 1715 fleet type cargo is in the Nassau sound area . --source is -- Virginia Govenor Alexander Spotwood's letter to Lord Stanhope of England--in which spotswood goes into detail about the type of vessel where it came from what its mission was and where it was wrecked at (the distance from St Augustine) --which places it in Nassau sound * --that and the items found being of the exact same type as the 1715 fleets leave no doubt .

 

[bobinsd]

I was looking around Naussau sound and saw this....is it anything?

<longitude>-81.38449333343785</longitude>
<latitude>30.50234133408928</latitude>

 

[ivan salis]

what do you think?-- Nassau sound has several wrecks * two of which are "money wrecks" --I only speak of them because the state of florida will NOT issue any salvage permits to harvest these valuable shipwrecks --so the least I can do is to alert the public as to the possible items washing up on the nearby shore lines and "advise" them to turn in said treasure items to the state should they find them. (like all good citizens should)

 

[Au_Dreamers]

"Known" 1715 wreck sites

1) Cabin wreck
2) Corrigan's
3) Rio Mar
4) Sandy Point
5) "Wedge wreck"
6) Douglas Beach

So that leaves us with 5 out there somewhere! Now I doubt any of them are *cough cough* billion dollar ships, but they would probably have enough to repay the fuel bill!

 

[Harvo]

I got this map from another site. I had tried a spot that I thought was going to be good. I thought I hit the jack pot and had silver. But it turned out to be a quarter. I have a new AT Pro so I want to get back over to that side of the coast.

 

[ivan salis]

well they say they found 300,000 in gold Spanish chains and 4 gold coins from the 1715 fleet era --1000 yards offshore of fort pierce * in 15 feet of water -- could there be a vessel there?

 

[ivan salis]

well as the records read to me --there should be a total of 8 vessels that wrecked in the "main fleet" general wreck site area -- all 5 of Ubilla's fleet --and both major treasure vessels and the "dutch prize" vessel of Echervez's fleet.--the above map accounts for 5 possible wrecks --the dutch prize wrecked in shallow water with it upper deck works shearing off the lower hull and surfing ashore --they were used as shelter during the salvage project * Echervez wrote in a letter from the "real" (shelter / camp ) of the Olandesa * (Holland --or dutch) --being small it might not had had any ballast as it could have been full of cargo --so there should be 2 to 3 ---1715 fleet sites as of yet to be found n that area--(note one shipwreck site on the above map is not a 1715 ship but a earlier one. still a treasure vessel but not 1715.)

 

[Overeasy]

I have always wondered why there have been, reported over the years, coins found at Bonsteel park (Chuck's) and at Aquarina Beach. I knows this goes back for some metal detector guys, but I have heard tails of coins on the beach there. Those coins didn't float on top of the water to get there. Any body got any ideas? I think that someone once said that one of the recovery boats sank up there, Just wonderin.

 

[ivan salis]

recovery or pirate boats are both possible

 

[Overeasy]

I once found a old book in the Melbourne library, (I am old) that said that Blackbeard was rumored to have been in the area, so I wonder. Anyway, was there a diary kept by one of the survivors of the shipwrecks? Didn't they shuttle cargo up to St Augustine? Shortly after I moved to Florida and didn't know anything about the area, I was on a construction site and overheard these guys talking about finding coins on the beach in south Brevard. I didn't know the men but they were having a serious discussion and I presume they knew what they were taking about. This was about 27 years ago.

 

[Darren in NC]

There's been several attempts to recover in front of Bonsteel Park. We did some blowing there years ago. The dilemma is that the sand is very fine there, and extremely difficult to dig in with a blower. A good mag survey and a coffer dam would be interesting.

 

[Salvor6]

I remember that Darren. That was in 2006 and the big problem was that the sand was 15' deep!

 

[Overeasy]

I live in Sunnyland (just north of Aquarina) and I have a pic on my wall of a boat with mailboxes tied off our beach. I don't think they found anything. I think was earlier than 2006. Interesting about the sand, I didn't know that.

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Overeasy:

I believe it was Blackbeard's "mentor" Benjamin Hornigold who fished up silver coins from the 1715 wrecks. Readers may recall in the classic Treasure Island by R.L. Stevenson, the parrot Cap'n. Flint learned to say "Pieces of Eight! Pieces of Eight" because she was there during that salvage and so many coins were brought up that is what she heard all day long.

I high recommend Robert E. Lee's biography of Blackbeard (No - not that R.E. Lee! Another one!). It exposes many of the myths - and is reliable because he used first-hand accounts, including court records. He proves, to my satisfaction (and his as well, since he wrote the book) that Blackbeard was basically murdered for political purposes after he'd retired. Not that he was a nice guy or anything, but those are the facts.

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

2.0: It appears Blackbeard's flagship has been found. But that's another story...

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Treasurecoast1715:

According to one source I found on the 'web (and we all know everything on the Internets is always 100% correct!) the four vessels that have never been found are:

Maria Galante
El Senor San Miguel (22 guns)
El Cievro (La Galleria)
Nuestra Senora de la Concepcion

Potter's "Homewrecker" contains an excellent, detailed account of the 1715 Fleet loss and Kip Wagner's recoveries. Someday I hope that essential reference is updated!

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

 

[ivan salis]

the maria galante was a very small privately owned vessel of ubilla's --it was formerly a small English blandra / galara type illegal trading vessel owned 25% by lord halimton --it was captured off of portobella by Echevez's pataches whil;e he sat in port awaiting "treasure cargo" --it was sent directly to cuba after being captured and was later on sol;d by echeverz to Ubilla when Ubilla came into Havana from mexico --in mexico Ubilla had lost 4 small patche type vessels due to storms and was in dire need of a small messenger type vessel.-- the maria galante is beleved to have sank nearby the other known 1715 fleet vessels because the padre that was on her survived * --and it was he that was sent to St Augustine to give word of the disaster .