Silver/ lead bar. Anyone ever seen one of these

[Kwtuna]

I posted this over in the "what is it" forum. Since this is a ship wreck I figured I would post in the appropriate thread

I found a Ship Wreck while spear fishing Cay Sal Bank. There was a small anchor and other stuff and this was in the sand. I think it is some type of lead bar. It is about 14" long, 5" wide and 3" deep. It has some very particular markings on it. A stamped "SP" and a W or M. It has a raised round disk at one end and a cross was stamped in it. The cross wore away because it was holding my porch door open. It also has some "nips" taken out along with some "scoops". Can anyone help identify this. Would it be worth making another trip back to the wreck? If you respond my appreciation in advance. My email is [email protected].

There were also cannon and ballast stones in the sand and coral. The anchor was about 6' long

 

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[Zodiacdiverdave]

Now doubt it was bar lead used for making musket balls or any other thing on board that might be made from lead.
Do you live in Cay Sal?
ZDD

 

[Kwtuna]

Now doubt it was bar lead used for making musket balls or any other thing on board that might be made from lead.
Do you live in Cay Sal?
ZDD

No. I don't live there. This is the Cay Sal that is technically part of the Bahamas. it lies about 70 miles NE of Key West, 50 miles east of Marathon and 40 miles north of Havana Cuba. Cay Sal is uninhabited. Totally remote. The diving there is awesome. And the perimeter bank and reefs has a lot of ship wrecks.

 

[captbonnie]

Cay Sal is under Bahamian jurisdiction be advised removal of any artifact over 50 years old is a violation I would advise you contact Nassau authorities . please be responsible . it is the unlawful activities that make the progress toward shipwreck recovery under the law slow down, not to jump on your case but shipwreck salvage is not a hobby to many of us that care. Good luck with your diving but please remember your actions reflect on all...A pirate flag may look cool but it is illegal as is unauthorized salvage....Yes I take this seriously

Capt. Bonnie
Gold Hawg Treasure

 

[huntsman53]

Now doubt it was bar lead used for making musket balls or any other thing on board that might be made from lead.
Do you live in Cay Sal?
ZDD

Why would a bar of lead have possible Assayer's Marks on it, if it were being used for making musket balls or for repairs (i.e. to make replacement strappings)?


Frank

 

[GatorBoy]

The white oxidation says lead.
The marks are likely manifest related. . maybe to the original shipment vessel not necessarily that one.
It would be great to decipher those.
Very very interesting location for that wreck.
That raised round "disk" could be sprue from when it was poured in a mold... but it also makes me wonder if that item is lead all the way through.
.

That 50 yr. Law gets me.. it illegal to pick up 1962 penny.
I don't see anyone trying to salvage a wreck with no precious metal or jewels.. just saying .. who cares..
And ... about what is very relative.
I mean... let's be honest.
A bit harsh to infer that only professional salvagers care.. "GoldHog" I'm sure you're very dedicated And a wonderful person but that statement alienated alot of people.. and yes pirate flags are cool!

 

[GatorBoy]

Don't Break off that raised disk.
With a little research I found that your item could be a hazardous material container cased in lead.
O.S.H.A. requires an S.P. number on all hazardous "W"aste shipments

 

[diverdan]

Florida pirates have been raiding the Cay Sal Banks for decades. No one lives there and it is a long distance from the nearest port (Bimini). There are dozens of wrecks out there.

 

[Kwtuna]

The white oxidation says lead.
The marks are likely manifest related. . maybe to the original shipment vessel not necessarily that one.
It would be great to decipher those.
Very very interesting location for that wreck.
That raised round "disk" could be sprue from when it was poured in a mold... but it also makes me wonder if that item is lead all the way through.
.

That 50 yr. Law gets me.. it illegal to pick up 1962 penny.
I don't see anyone trying to salvage a wreck with no precious metal or jewels.. just saying .. who cares..
And ... about what is very relative.
I mean... let's be honest.
A bit harsh to infer that only professional salvagers care.. "GoldHog" I'm sure you're very dedicated And a wonderful person but that statement alienated alot of people.. and yes pirate flags are cool!

Spot on!. This is what got me thinking, why would they go thru so much trouble of marking a lead bar. The raised disk most definetly had a cross and letters on it. It appears to be manipulated to obtain an exact weight. Here are a couple of theories I wanted to bouncy off you guys.
1. It's some type of official weight. How did they weigh things back then? A balance weight? Was this a weight on the other side of the balance beam when silver or gold was weighed?
2. It's lead on the outside and something is being smuggled on the inside? Hmmm

Well guys should I go with theory 2 and cut it in half?

Oh and by the way, on the Bahamian treasure laws, etc. I appreciate and support your viewpoint. I was raised in the southern Bahamas and fly the pirate flag

 

[dennco2000]

Cay Sal is under Bahamian jurisdiction be advised removal of any artifact over 50 years old is a violation I would advise you contact Nassau authorities . please be responsible . it is the unlawful activities that make the progress toward shipwreck recovery under the law slow down, not to jump on your case but shipwreck salvage is not a hobby to many of us that care. Good luck with your diving but please remember your actions reflect on all...A pirate flag may look cool but it is illegal as is unauthorized salvage....Yes I take this seriously

Capt. Bonnie
Gold Hawg Treasure

I feel burial mounds, indian and some fossilized artifacts to some extent should be protected in the name of science but don't B.S. yourself about governmental rules and treasure salvage, those rules are in place not for the historical data THE GOVERNMENT WANTS THE GOLD FOR THE SAME REASON WE ALL DO! There's enough gold coins and artificats locked behind closed doors, basements, etc, in museums at this time anyway. We pretty much know the facts about the 1700 fleets they enslaved, and murdered to unlawfully take the gold first and on the way back a few ships sank... and once Spain gets wind of your find you aint getting nuttin honey!
Just ask Odyssy Marine, by the way how did following that protocall deal work out for them in the end? Oh thats right they didnt even get a lead bar out of the deal LOL Not funny really but it does validate my point. Sorry for being so blunt but the facts are the facts.

Now with that being said let's cut that sucker in half! LOL. Nice find thanks for sharing.
Dennis.

 

[dennco2000]

The SP may also be the maker. India has been a producer of lead ingot for years. If this is Bangalore lead the wreck may be from the early 1900's. Can you tell if it was a steel hull?

 

[GatorBoy]

Don't Break off that raised disk.
With a little research I found that your item could be a hazardous material container cased in lead.
O.S.H.A. requires an S.P. number on all hazardous "W"aste shipments

Ech-ummm...
Please eliminate this possibility before cutting. .... then.... cut cut cut. :-)
... Ahh..just posted and saw yours about India..I saw that while looking into this too.

 

[gus]

many years ago i saw 3 or 4 similar ingots on a 16 or 17 century wreck in cozumel. did not recover them but always wondered if they might have marks. year later some bozos salvaged them for the lead

 

[Donovan]

Kwtuna.
It might be wise in the future to know that bahamamike is the head of the Bahamian archaeology dept. He has posted here many times. Since you have confessed to going into the Bahamas and retrieving artifacts. I'm sure he will find your post interesting reading.

 

[Salvor6]

It would be real easy to find out if the bar is silver, lead or something else. Just find the specific gravity of the bar. Put the bar in a glass pot that is graduated in cc's (cubic centimeters). and add water up to a certain level. Take the bar out and see how much the water drops. Thats the volume of the bar. Divide the weight (in grams) by the volume to find out how many grams per cc the bar is. Silver is 10.49 gm/cc and lead is 11.35 gm/cc.

Smart pirates don't post their finds on a public forum!

 

[GatorBoy]

Donovan..and Salvor...There is nothing about here-say..or should I say "Read-Type" without visible eye or camera witness that can prove anything of what he said to be fact.
Its just chat in a forum.
However... I do agree.

 

[maipenrai]

I also have a lead bar, about the same size as yours, but its from the other side of the world, in the Baltic area. It is half round, and looks like poured into a mold, then one end chopped or sawed off. It was in a 1750 wreck area, but it could have been a home made anchor for a fish trap that was set up there. No lettering or raised disk, otherwise, they look the same. Its not with me now, so cant give any exact measurements.

 

[ivan salis]

old shipwreck lead bars can be quite valuable --read up on "low alpha lead" --your welcome.

 

[Southern_Digger]

old shipwreck lead bars can be quite valuable --read up on "low alpha lead" --your welcome.

Too bad the newer ones are only good for fishing weights. I found a lead bar on Dania Beach many years ago. Someone scratched a date onto it: "1963." It was buried nearly 2-ft into the dunes. It now serves as a wheel stop for a vehicle I have stored in my garage. I believe it was old sailboat ballast that some diver found, dragged ashore, and abandoned.

 

[Sawyer]

I am sure that some government claims to own everything on the ocean floor. Who owns the moon? I recently saw a story that said the U.S. is creating a national park/preserve to protect the first landing site. I have claimed to own the moon for sixty years. I want all my moon rocks back!