florida shipwreck treasure salvage changes.

[seeker41]

if you were the governor of florida, what changes would you make to the present laws regarding treasure salvage?
pm me if necessary.

chuck.

 

[ropesfish]

Could we start out with a full public accounting of the last 50 years of the State of Florida's share of treasure finds? Who, what, where and how...and where it is now would seem reasonable to me.

 

[huntsman53]

Could we start out with a full public accounting of the last 50 years of the State of Florida's share of treasure finds? Who, what, where and how...and where it is now would seem reasonable to me.

You got that right! Besides the few items donated to the Florida History Museum, where did the other confiscated items go and there have been lots of them??!!


Frank

 

[seeker41]

thanks guys!!!! if enough of us that are determined and hard headed put pressure on the state to give us the information it will happen! if it doesn't we could have the feds step in!

im looking for ways that we could simplify and possibly remove some of the regulations and red tape!! all suggestions are appreciated and may be used in the near future! what would you like too see changed?

chuck.

 

[GatorBoy]

I would like to see some sort of re-implementation of the isolated finds act that was discontinued in 2005... so that law abiding "tax paying" citizens that recover an item would not hesitate to report the find;That way inland and water erosion finds from the lagoon side could be documented and the story better put together.... several ships are still not found.
As it stands.. its illegal for someone to pick up a penny made in 1950.
As far as working on a lease I think the state should have to detail up front the percent it will have the right to from each salvor to add up to it's 20% from each wreck..not cherry pick at the end of the season.

 

[ScubaFinder]

I'll 2nd GatorBoy's Isolated Finds Program idea, that was a wonderful program that greatly helped to enhance the archaeological record by empowering an army of tax-paying citizens with the right to share information freely on any artifact they find. Its removal has only been detrimental to the archaeological record. How can these elected state archaeologists sleep at night, surely academics such as these must realize that their elitist mentalities are hurting the very information they are charged with protecting. This is something so simply logical and easy to see that I will never understand how it escapes them.

Also, on the underwater salvage lease issue I would like to see a complete set of requirements for obtaining an exploration and/or salvage lease. This means a detailed, exact, and complete set of rules or requirements that a salvor must meet in order to obtain the permit. After that, I would like to see permits actually GIVEN when a salvor meets those requirements. The requirements as they stand now are arbitrary, unclear, and leave a lot of room for the Bureau of Archaeological Resources to put up road blocks.

My biggest problem with the current requirements is the fact that the bureaucratic archaeologists in Tallahassee get to tell the salvor how much the project will cost to complete, and then the salvor must prove that he has the funding required to complete the project before the permit can be given (its hard to get funding without a permit, so its another attempt at a catch 22). If they don't like you, well...it's a $750,000,000.00 project that you can't afford to finish...problem solved for them. A logical and workable solution would be to let the archaeologists detail what data they want recorded and how, as well as detailed artifact handling protocols (things they are intelligent about) and leave the accounting (things they don't know about) to the salvors to figure out. Then it is up to the salvor to provide the correct archaeological data or he forfeits his lease. Most salvors want to provide the best data they can and work hard to ensure that correct archaeology is performed. The state SHOULD have control over data collection and artifact handling protocols to ensure that the archaeological record is preserved and as complete as is PRACTICAL. They should NOT be setting project budgets for salvors, or using that power to reject particular projects that they will never get around to doing themselves.

Lastly, there should be open accountability across the board in that office. They should be held accountable for missing artifacts, plus all state owned artifacts should be available for anyone to view and study freely.

Good start so far....I could go on for days but I'm preaching to the choir here. :-)

 

[huntsman53]

I'll 2nd GatorBoy's Isolated Finds Program idea, that was a wonderful program that greatly helped to enhance the archaeological record by empowering an army of tax-paying citizens with the right to share information freely on any artifact they find. Its removal has only been detrimental to the archaeological record. How can these elected state archaeologists sleep at night, surely academics such as these must realize that their elitist mentalities are hurting the very information they are charged with protecting. This is something so simply logical and easy to see that I will never understand how it escapes them.

Also, on the underwater salvage lease issue I would like to see a complete set of requirements for obtaining an exploration and/or salvage lease. This means a detailed, exact, and complete set of rules or requirements that a salvor must meet in order to obtain the permit. After that, I would like to see permits actually GIVEN when a salvor meets those requirements. The requirements as they stand now are arbitrary, unclear, and leave a lot of room for the Bureau of Archaeological Resources to put up road blocks.

My biggest problem with the current requirements is the fact that the bureaucratic archaeologists in Tallahassee get to tell the salvor how much the project will cost to complete, and then the salvor must prove that he has the funding required to complete the project before the permit can be given (its hard to get funding without a permit, so its another attempt at a catch 22). If they don't like you, well...it's a $750,000,000.00 project that you can't afford to finish...problem solved for them. A logical and workable solution would be to let the archaeologists detail what data they want recorded and how, as well as detailed artifact handling protocols (things they are intelligent about) and leave the accounting (things they don't know about) to the salvors to figure out. Then it is up to the salvor to provide the correct archaeological data or he forfeits his lease. Most salvors want to provide the best data they can and work hard to ensure that correct archaeology is performed. The state SHOULD have control over data collection and artifact handling protocols to ensure that the archaeological record is preserved and as complete as is PRACTICAL. They should NOT be setting project budgets for salvors, or using that power to reject particular projects that they will never get around to doing themselves.

Lastly, there should be open accountability across the board in that office. They should be held accountable for missing artifacts, plus all state owned artifacts should be available for anyone to view and study freely.

Good start so far....I could go on for days but I'm preaching to the choir here. :-)

Jason,

Your' post is very well written and gets to the real concerns and points of the matter!


Frank

 

[huntsman53]

I would like to see some sort of re-implementation of the isolated finds act that was discontinued in 2005... so that law abiding "tax paying" citizens that recover an item would not hesitate to report the find;That way inland and water erosion finds from the lagoon side could be documented and the story better put together.... several ships are still not found.
As it stands.. its illegal for someone to pick up a penny made in 1950.
As far as working on a lease I think the state should have to detail up front the percent it will have the right to from each salvor to add up to it's 20% from each wreck..not cherry pick at the end of the season.

I totally agree!


Frank

 

[Booty Salvage]

Start a citizens initiative. It's the only thing they could pass that wouldn't put us farther in debt

 

[GatorBoy]

I'd be willing to pay a yearly fee.

 

[Darren in NC]

...plus all state owned artifacts should be available for anyone to view and study freely.

Has this ever been the case? If not, has anyone ever seen the conservation and/or storage of the artifacts acquired over the years?

 

[ScubaFinder]

I was once allowed to inspect and photograph a specific artifact from the vault, but was not allowed inside. I have only seen pictures of their conservation laboratory, but it looks nice. Someone told me a while back that you could call and request a tour of the vault but I never followed up on that. My guess is since it is owned by the state of Florida, a resident could request to see and even inventory what is inside if someone had the time and drive to do such a thing. I'm sure the Fisher family would gladly provide you with a master list of everything they have donated over the decades. Matching the two up would be a monumental task, which I assume is why it has never happened. No doubt there would be discrepancies with that many items, whether it would be scandalous or not remains to be seen. I like to give people (even archaeologists) the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

 

[seeker41]

great responses, thanks!!! the isolated finds program and the portable antiquities scheme are two things I have in mind. I would like to do this without antagonizing the state and im taking my time to come up with something that will benefit all treasure hunters, from major salvage ops to bottle collector. working with the state instead of despite the state and coming up with something that will last more than a few years is my goal.
I would like to have taffi and brent's or any others that im not thinking of input here also or by pm if they are so inclined. I will eventually need legal help when we come up with something to present to the state.
keep the suggestions and advice coming!

chuck.

 

[Salvor6]

I would first like to see an accounting of what the state has in their inventory. This will never happen. When Gov. Rick Scott was elected he asked how the state could raise revenue. Rep. Ileana Ross-Leightnan first proposed selling some of the state treasure at auction. Rep. Lincoln Diaz Balzart called for an accounting of what the state has. That was shot down. There is so much treasure missing, from the gold coins that Gov. Lauten Childs gave away to visiting dignitaries to the gold bar missing from the Jupiter Wreck to the gold coins stolen from Mel Fisher's Atocha wreck. Not to mention all the gold and silver coins stolen by the state archies for their retirement!

Did I antagonize the state enough?

 

[seeker41]

I would first like to see an accounting of what the state has in their inventory. This will never happen. When Gov. Rick Scott was elected he asked how the state could raise revenue. Rep. Ileana Ross-Leightnan first proposed selling some of the state treasure at auction. Rep. Lincoln Diaz Balzart called for an accounting of what the state has. That was shot down. There is so much treasure missing, from the gold coins that Gov. Lauten Childs gave away to visiting dignitaries to the gold bar missing from the Jupiter Wreck to the gold coins stolen from Mel Fisher's Atocha wreck. Not to mention all the gold and silver coins stolen by the state archies for their retirement!

Did I antagonize the state enough?

no pete, you could really tick them off if you wanted too!!!! and so could I!!
I will most likely try being polite at first with a very strong backup plan at the ready.

pete, what would you like to see happen? isolated finds reinstated? finders keepers? a tornado to wipe out the archeological dept in Tallahassee?


chuck

 

[GatorBoy]

Ha.. Keep your friends close.. But keep the state closer.

 

[Tnmountains]

I am sure they will say it is in museums.

 

[ropesfish]

Scubafinder said: "Good start so far....I could go on for days but I'm preaching to the choir here. :-)"
Nope. Not preaching to the choir...more like reciting the verses (and quite eloquently, I might add) for someone to transcribe. My personal leaning is toward noisy, violent confrontation - preachers get a lot more accomplished in government.
Keep preachin', Brother!

 

[aquanut]

The state has made it impossible for the little guy. So....

 

[seeker41]

yes, proving mismanagement and corruption and making it public is one option. they would not be able to claim that only they have the credentials and ability to oversee our historical resources.

once again, this would call for a dedicated legal team on our side!!!!!!! anybody out there

chuck.