1766 PITT token medal? 7 coin large Cent spill UPDATED PICS !

[Brian W]

Had a great weekend...Started off with a 1837 canada token *cleaning* a 1820 Large Cent...on saturdays hunt...On sunday went to a site i did a little research on...I found this large token...wasnt sure what it was...I looked it up on coinfacts...Its a 1766 no date Pitt token..no stamp act...The back reads *The man who having saved the parent pleaded with success for her children* That alone would have made my weekend...Search around 2 other cellar holes...nada..went back to the first one and hunted the pasture area...Got a nice signal and BAM!!!! my first half cent *draped bust*....I called my buddy over to show him and then i said, i need to rescan the hole BAM!!! Large Cent...And when i finished i ended up with 6 Large Cents and the Half Cent...I took before pics ...and im cleaning them up now....9 coppers and a Pitt token...I am a happy guy

I updated the coin pics...Thought they cleaned up nice...They looked pretty bad in first pic

 

[Mackaydon]

Re: 1766 PITT token medal? 7 coin large Cent spill

IP:
Good catch, my bad.
So maybe original is 1766 and 'repo' was then in 1863.
Don.........

 

[girardpaguy]

Re: 1766 PITT token medal? 7 coin large Cent spill

Great finds Dude

 

[creeper71]

Re: 1766 PITT token medal? 7 coin large Cent spill

IP:
Good catch, my bad.
So maybe original is 1766 and 'repo' was then in 1863.
Don.........

Read the link I posted above your first post about those medals being counterfeited

 

[Brian W]

Re: 1766 PITT token medal? 7 coin large Cent spill

Thanks everyone..1863 makes sense...It dates the site....Im still happy with it

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: 1766 PITT token medal? 7 coin large Cent spill

IP:
Good catch, my bad.
So maybe original is 1766 and 'repo' was then in 1863.
Don.........

I don't think there's an early one, just the 1863. The page showing the one only having the 1766 date also lists the Betts number, so it's also an 1863 excample. Betts 515. William Pitt Medal (1766)

 

[allen]

Re: 1766 PITT token medal? 7 coin large Cent spill

id been happy with one large cent, you really kicked butt this weekend !!

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: 1766 PITT token medal? 7 coin large Cent spill

Just seen there is two.... Betts 515 & 516 .... That will tell the story.... should be easy to figure it out. Meaning..... if they date the same.

I'm thinking one might be a medal, and the other a later token. The size or the die axis might help.


The medal is listed as 40mm.... very large. (note the auction one is silver though) The copper one is even bigger at 41.5mm. Is the one we're trying to ID as big? My head is starting to hurt!

http://www.stacks.com/lotdetail.aspx?lrid=AN00042873

 

[Mackaydon]

Re: 1766 PITT token medal? 7 coin large Cent spill

If I'm reading this correctly, here's a short narrative of another example of the same medal with a 24 mm diameter (Item 2111):
http://books.google.com/books?id=6A... with success for her children" medal&f=false

Don.....
IP: Pass me two of your aspirin tablets, please.

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: 1766 PITT token medal? 7 coin large Cent spill

If I'm reading this correctly, here's a short narrative of another example of the same medal with a 24 mm diameter (Item 2111):
http://books.google.com/books?id=6A... with success for her children" medal&f=false

Don.....
IP: Pass me two of your aspirin tablets, please.

If that's the case then the 24mm sounds like it would be the 1863 one, and based on the 1766 medal.

 

[2bits]

Re: 1766 PITT token medal? 7 coin large Cent spill

Excellent finds! HH
Doc

 

[creeper71]

Re: 1766 PITT token medal? 7 coin large Cent spill

Has anyone even read the link I posted ? cause that will probly answer alot of your questions.... here it is again

http://books.google.com/books?id=dZ...ess+for+her+children&cd=3#v=onepage&q&f=false

You'll have to scroll down a lil to Counterfeit Pitt Medal

 

[Bubba65]

Re: 1766 PITT token medal? 7 coin large Cent spill

Congrats on all the finds. i say that is one good weekend of finds.

Bubba65

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: 1766 PITT token medal? 7 coin large Cent spill

Has anyone even read the link I posted ? cause that will probly answer alot of your questions.... here it is again

http://books.google.com/books?id=dZ...ess+for+her+children&cd=3#v=onepage&q&f=false

You'll have to scroll down a lil to Counterfeit Pitt Medal

Tried but the page does not open to it.

 

[JerV3]

Re: 1766 PITT token medal? 7 coin large Cent spill

Really nice finds.

Love that pitt token. Is the date on it the actual time frame. Was this piece handed out. I guess I'll have to read on.

HH Jer

 

[creeper71]

Re: 1766 PITT token medal? 7 coin large Cent spill

Has anyone even read the link I posted ? cause that will probly answer alot of your questions.... here it is again

http://books.google.com/books?id=dZ...ess+for+her+children&cd=3#v=onepage&q&f=false

You'll have to scroll down a lil to Counterfeit Pitt Medal

Tried but the page does not open to it.

did you click on the page itself so you have a lil hand an then scroll slowly down to Counterfeit pitt medal?

 

[creeper71]

Re: 1766 PITT token medal? 7 coin large Cent spill

Feb 1 i 1901 Mr C Wyllis Belts in his work American Colonial History illustrated by contemporary medals describes a William Pitt medal No 515 as follows obverse Gulid mus Pitt bust of Pitt to left Reverse the inscription in ten lines The man who having saved the parent pleaded with success for her children Struck in silver and bronze Two varieties of each die with slight differences in bronze Size 26 The date given is 1766 I have here a silver medal which answers precisely to this description but which is an imitation the dies of which were cut by a die sinker of this city and medals struck from them at No 29 Rose Street on a large screw press operated by a German in the year 1863 It was about this time that the so called copperheads or war tokens were being issued and on one of my visits to his establishment for specimens of these tokens I discovered a trial piece in lead of this medal lying at the base of the press It was hastily taken from me but I saw at a glance its character it was a revelation to rue that a fraud was about being perpetrated on the Numismatic fraternity For very good reasons I kept my suspicions to myself and in an apparently unconcerned manner requested a copy for which I offered a fair price My offer was declined on the reasonable ground that the dies were not his property but belonged to a gentleman who was a very good customer for whom he did a great deal of work probably of the same nature who paid well for it and who wanted it done secretly

Having made the discovery I was determined to obtain a specimen for the purpose of proving its New York origin as well as for comparison with the English piece I called the following day and handed him an old smooth worn crown of Charles II of England and requested him to impress the dies on the coin which he reluctantly accepted A few days later I received the medal accompanied by another specimen in white metal No doubt a number of these medals have found their way into the cabinets of Numismatists throughout the country as well as in this city who may be deluded with the belief that they possess the original English medal With the slight varieties existing according to Mr Betts it may be a difficult matter to determine which is the early and which the late production It is possible that Mr Betts may have been deceived with the imitation and placed it on record as a variety of the original I shall be pleased if any member of this Society who may possess one of these medals will bring it here for comparison as I shall present this medal to the Society for this purpose and for identification

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: 1766 PITT token medal? 7 coin large Cent spill

Feb 1 i 1901 Mr C Wyllis Belts in his work American Colonial History illustrated by contemporary medals describes a William Pitt medal No 515 as follows obverse Gulid mus Pitt bust of Pitt to left Reverse the inscription in ten lines The man who having saved the parent pleaded with success for her children Struck in silver and bronze Two varieties of each die with slight differences in bronze Size 26 The date given is 1766 I have here a silver medal which answers precisely to this description but which is an imitation the dies of which were cut by a die sinker of this city and medals struck from them at No 29 Rose Street on a large screw press operated by a German in the year 1863 It was about this time that the so called copperheads or war tokens were being issued and on one of my visits to his establishment for specimens of these tokens I discovered a trial piece in lead of this medal lying at the base of the press It was hastily taken from me but I saw at a glance its character it was a revelation to rue that a fraud was about being perpetrated on the Numismatic fraternity For very good reasons I kept my suspicions to myself and in an apparently unconcerned manner requested a copy for which I offered a fair price My offer was declined on the reasonable ground that the dies were not his property but belonged to a gentleman who was a very good customer for whom he did a great deal of work probably of the same nature who paid well for it and who wanted it done secretly

Having made the discovery I was determined to obtain a specimen for the purpose of proving its New York origin as well as for comparison with the English piece I called the following day and handed him an old smooth worn crown of Charles II of England and requested him to impress the dies on the coin which he reluctantly accepted A few days later I received the medal accompanied by another specimen in white metal No doubt a number of these medals have found their way into the cabinets of Numismatists throughout the country as well as in this city who may be deluded with the belief that they possess the original English medal With the slight varieties existing according to Mr Betts it may be a difficult matter to determine which is the early and which the late production It is possible that Mr Betts may have been deceived with the imitation and placed it on record as a variety of the original I shall be pleased if any member of this Society who may possess one of these medals will bring it here for comparison as I shall present this medal to the Society for this purpose and for identification

Does Sound like it is what the German was pressing. I'd say it's very close to a green check now.

 

[Brian W]

Re: 1766 PITT token medal? 7 coin large Cent spill

Just seen there is two.... Betts 515 & 516 .... That will tell the story.... should be easy to figure it out. Meaning..... if they date the same.

I'm thinking one might be a medal, and the other a later token. The size or the die axis might help.


The medal is listed as 40mm.... very large. (note the auction one is silver though) The copper one is even bigger at 41.5mm. Is the one we're trying to ID as big? My head is starting to hurt!

http://www.stacks.com/lotdetail.aspx?lrid=AN00042873

Here is the size its a copper medal at 41.5...The thing is huge

 

[Sniffy]

Re: 1766 PITT token medal? 7 coin large Cent spill

cough cough...choke...omg..that is AWESOME!

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: 1766 PITT token medal? 7 coin large Cent spill

Just seen there is two.... Betts 515 & 516 .... That will tell the story.... should be easy to figure it out. Meaning..... if they date the same.

I'm thinking one might be a medal, and the other a later token. The size or the die axis might help.


The medal is listed as 40mm.... very large. (note the auction one is silver though) The copper one is even bigger at 41.5mm. Is the one we're trying to ID as big? My head is starting to hurt!

http://www.stacks.com/lotdetail.aspx?lrid=AN00042873

Here is the size its a copper medal at 41.5...The thing is huge

What I get from everything I've read, if the above means the later ones were 26mm, I think you have the real deal. (1766) No question a benner worthy find.