1774 PROTOTYPE VIRGINIA CENT???

[PACO]

HELLO ALL, I`LL KEEP IT SHORT UNLIKE MY PAL KIRKPA. KIRKPA AND I WERE HITTING THE H$LL OUT OF ONE OF OUR MANY FARMS WHEN I GOT A LOW VDI READING OF 24 ON MY MXT. WE THOUGHT AT FIRST IT WAS A FARTHING, BUT WE WERE WRONG. I DECIDED TO LOOK AT IT MUCH CLOSER AND STARTED TO SEE SOME DETEAILS ON THE BACK THAT STARTED TO EXCITE ME. IF YOU LOOK ON THE RED BOOK ON PAGE 43 IT IS THE EXACT SAME COIN AS THE SILVER SHILLING 1774, BUT MY COIN IS PUNCHED IN A LOW GRADE COPPER. IF YOU READ UP ABOVE IT STATED THAT THE SILVER SHILLING IS A PATTERN COIN FOR THE HALF CENT......
ANY ADVICE YOU CAN GIVE ME( PACO ) WOULD BE APPRECIATED, I AM LOOKING FOR SOME HELP ON THIS COIN..... I HAVE ALREADY E-MAIL THE TOWER MINT OF LONDON ON THIS TO SEE WHAT THEY COME UP WITH.........THANKS FOR YOUR ADVICE. PACO

 

[Don in SJ]

No cent, it is a half cent, relatively common Virginia Halfpenny, 1773, given the weight and diameter(provided to me earlier) and it is close to what most corroded and worn ground found Va Halfpenny's are.

Don

 

[Colonial Zoyboy]

No cent, it is a half cent, relatively common Virginia Halfpenny, 1773, given the weight and diameter(provided to me earlier) and it is close to what most corroded and worn ground found Va Halfpenny's are.

Don

Yeah, Paco, it might be the cast iron counterfeit of the halfpenny, but let's keep our fingers crossed that it's not.

Bone Dry Detecting...zoy

 

[tinpan]

Copper slug...

agreed

double that

 

[Colonial Zoyboy]

Copper slug...

agreed

double that

Tinpan, if you kiss that toad, you might get a coppa.

Bone Dry Detecting...zoyster

 

[BobinSouthVA]

That is an awesome find.

Heres to hoping its the shweet one.

 

[silverfreak]

That is an awesome find Paco. You bone dry dudes are really popping the goodies out of the ground.

 

[Don in SJ]

I was asked to help and I did and my opinion has not changed and in fact now that I have seen the photo I am more convinced it is nothing more than a heavily corroded and worn 1773 Virginia Halfpenny, which in itself is a nice find, esepecially in North Central Pennsylvania. They tended to circulate most in the immediate area of Virginia.
My good friend who has over a thousand colonials reports in his article he has found only 5 in Southern NJ and I have found 2 and my son has none I believe. So even a Va half penny find deserves recognition.

I do not see what the coin dealer could have possibly seen to say it is the Penny and not the Half Penny. I have said it a few times before, most coin dealers, the ones who operate stores in towns, are in general knowledgable in the US mint coinage but are fairly clueless when it comes to Colonials.

Now, here is why I say it is a Virginia Halfpenny.
The weight and diameter given to me is within the parameters of the Halfpenny, and in fact, it is smaller than a uncorroded Va Halfpenny, and IF it were the pattern Penny, it would be Larger, here is a quote from the Notre Dame coin website " There is also a very rare larger size proof prototype, sometimes referred to as a "penny," and an extremely rare silver proof pattern dated 1774."

You initially said 1774 in your post but I don't think anyone saw a 4 at all and some think they see the 3, and that is possible, since it is a 1773.

Here are some diameter and weight comparisons: (Paco's measurements were provided to me in a PM)

PACO's Coin Notre Dame Website examples Don's examples

24.4mm 25.1mm 25.0mm 24.8mm 24.8mm 24.7mm
7.54 grams 7.70gms 7.9gms 7.34gms 7.25gms 6.16gms

As you can see Paco's coin is well within the parameters of known Half pennies and allowing for calibration differences the diameter is within also.

I am attaching a photo of one of mine, not the best photo but does show the right rear side that appears most on Paco's coin, for comparison.

Don

 

[Colonial KirkPA]

I think we will all agree, Don. It is still a great find for being found in PA!

BDD...Kirk

 

[COUNTRY GIRL]

That is a great addition to anyones collection! You guys keep digging for us frozen folks. I love seeing your great finds. HH

 

[Evolution]

Great find Paco. One more coppa to add to the B D D totals for 2007. We got a foot of snow here last night so no hunting for me.

 

[Wasabi]

Cool find Paco,
I hope for your sake it is the rare type you have been talking about.
That would really be a way to end the year.
Good going.
Rob

 

[Colonial Zoyboy]

I was asked to help and I did and my opinion has not changed and in fact now that I have seen the photo I am more convinced it is nothing more than a heavily corroded and worn 1773 Virginia Halfpenny, which in itself is a nice find, esepecially in North Central Pennsylvania. They tended to circulate most in the immediate area of Virginia.
My good friend who has over a thousand colonials reports in his article he has found only 5 in Southern NJ and I have found 2 and my son has none I believe. So even a Va half penny find deserves recognition.

I do not see what the coin dealer could have possibly seen to say it is the Penny and not the Half Penny. I have said it a few times before, most coin dealers, the ones who operate stores in towns, are in general knowledgable in the US mint coinage but are fairly clueless when it comes to Colonials.

Now, here is why I say it is a Virginia Halfpenny.
The weight and diameter given to me is within the parameters of the Halfpenny, and in fact, it is smaller than a uncorroded Va Halfpenny, and IF it were the pattern Penny, it would be Larger, here is a quote from the Notre Dame coin website " There is also a very rare larger size proof prototype, sometimes referred to as a "penny," and an extremely rare silver proof pattern dated 1774."

You initially said 1774 in your post but I don't think anyone saw a 4 at all and some think they see the 3, and that is possible, since it is a 1773.

Here are some diameter and weight comparisons: (Paco's measurements were provided to me in a PM)

PACO's Coin Notre Dame Website examples Don's examples

24.4mm 25.1mm 25.0mm 24.8mm 24.8mm 24.7mm
7.54 grams 7.70gms 7.9gms 7.34gms 7.25gms 6.16gms

As you can see Paco's coin is well within the parameters of known Half pennies and allowing for calibration differences the diameter is within also.

I am attaching a photo of one of mine, not the best photo but does show the right rear side that appears most on Paco's coin, for comparison.

Don

Don, thanks for the advice.

You confirmed that it is definitely a Virginia halfpenny, but it is not the copper version. You did say that there were deceptive cast iron counterfeits of the halfpenny, so that is probably why it read at a 24 VDI. Therefore, Paco's coin is probably a cast iron counterfeit of the 1773 Virginia halfpenny.

Bone Dry Detecting...KylePA

 

[Don in SJ]

I am fairly certain it is not a counterfeit, and if it were it would not be of iron, not weighing that little. The coin weighs about the same as mine and others so it is the real deal, just heavily corroded which might be affecting that Very Dumb Indicator number!
My Va Halfpenny's read lower also and do not have the heavy corrosion on them, I am sure that does affect the reading to some degree.

Don

 

[Colonial Zoyboy]

I am fairly certain it is not a counterfeit, and if it were it would not be of iron, not weighing that little. The coin weighs about the same as mine and others so it is the real deal, just heavily corroded which might be affecting that Very Dumb Indicator number!
My Va Halfpenny's read lower also and do not have the heavy corrosion on them, I am sure that does affect the reading to some degree.

Don

It is better than a blurp, gobble, and a gurble.

Bone Dry Detecting...KylePA

 

[Captn SE]

Hello Paco,

Big congrats to you on finding a Virginia Half Penny in PA. That's another BDD Coppa find in '07.
On to '08, my friend.

Happy New Year!!

CAPTN SE
Dan