1810 Mission Bell?

[Michigan Badger]

I bought this from a person in Ohio. It was obviously dug somewhere due to all the caked on dirt inside the bell. It's super heavy for a bell only about 8 inches wide. It has surface "bronze disease" that will clean away easily. I have a lot of experience doing that with shipwreck and dirt dug bronze coins and relics.

I have some questions.

1. Am I imagining this or does this bell have 1810 on it? The guy I got it from said he only saw decorations with nothing identifiable on the bell. I wet the bell for easier viewing of details.

2. In your opinion, is this an old Mission Bell? I know by the natural corrosion this is definitely a very old bell.

I'd appreciate anything else you can tell me about this bell. All links to more informational sites welcomed.

Thanks,

Badger

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I cant search but bells of this type have been posted and IDed here in the past. Someone may do a back search maybe help maybe not. .

 

[vhs07]

Try this thread here:
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,156797.msg1138900/topicseen.html#msg1138900

-Charles

 

[Michigan Badger]

Try this thread here:
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,156797.msg1138900/topicseen.html#msg1138900

-Charles

Thanks for the link

 

[Michigan Badger]

I see similarities between my bell and this one....

http://www.trocadero.com/stores/alcazar/items/138466/item138466.html

 

[vhs07]

I hope it turns out to be authentic for you.
It's a very cool looking bell.

-Charles

 

[Michigan Badger]

I hope it turns out to be authentic for you.
It's a very cool looking bell.

-Charles

Thanks, I believe it is a historic 1810 bell. Either that or something just as good.

I've been working with ancient and old relics for over 20 years and the fakes stand out like a neon sign. The corrosion (patina) on this bell is genuine. It's consistent with any bronze relic 200+ years old that has been subjected to shipwreck or very damp land burial.

I didn't find any traces of typical saltwater corrosion so shipwreck is ruled out. I'd guess someone found this along (or in) some river or lake. To get a 1/16 to 1/8 of an inch of solid heavy patina (not counting bronze disease) on bronze, a piece has to be exposed to severe conditions for a long time.

This is definitely not a Taiwan or Chinese, etc., modern import.

 

[timekiller]

Just seen this post & will tag along to see what the result is as I have one too but with a eagle mounted on top.A little info on mine it to me has alot mold material left on it rather left there to look old or not I'm not sure. But it's crudly cast.My honest opinion on it is it's not that old & is only made to look old.But I'm not sure what a bell from 1810 would look like either. & have not study it much myself.But I'll see what I can come up with. Anyway here's mine to add to the pot.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Can we see the clapper?

 

[timekiller]

Well that didn't take to long. Here's the smoking gun on these bells for me.Early 1920's made in Mexico.Case solved. (I WILL SAY AFTER KNOWING WHAT TO LOOK FOR THE PRICES & DATES SEEM TO BE ALL OVER THE PLACE ON WHEN THEY SAY THEY WERE MADE.AND I HAVE YET TO FIND ONE LIKE MINE WITH THE EAGLE)
Take Care,
Pete,
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/antique-mexican-bronze-bell-dated-1810-nice

These bells were cast to commemorat Mexico's Independence from Spain in 1810

 

[timekiller]

I'll add this I think the people seeing & talking about the "coral" on them are seeing were it was in the sand mold.
Some prices & date write ups on sites.................
http://www.elalcazar.com/items/138466/item138466store.html
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/5841367
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/antique-bronze-mexican-independence-bell-of
http://www.trocadero.com/cgi-bin/search1.cgi?t=|||Most+Recent|spanish||thumb||406|15|1|||no|
http://www.rubylane.com/item/752391-24/Antique-Mex78ican-Bronze-Mission-Bell
http://www.instappraisal.com/content/bell-1810

 

[CRUSADER]

Well that didn't take to long. Here's the smoking gun on these bells for me.Early 1920's made in Mexico.Case solved. (I WILL SAY AFTER KNOWING WHAT TO LOOK FOR THE PRICES & DATES SEEM TO BE ALL OVER THE PLACE ON WHEN THEY SAY THEY WERE MADE.AND I HAVE YET TO FIND ONE LIKE MINE WITH THE EAGLE)
Take Care,
Pete,
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/antique-mexican-bronze-bell-dated-1810-nice

These bells were cast to commemorat Mexico's Independence from Spain in 1810

Good research, I knew it didn't look quite right for 1810, but only had gut feeling no experience in bells, so I waited
Probably buried for 50 years or so.

 

[G.A.P.metal]

The top of your bell where it would hang from looks like the top of a english crown.
Gary G.A.P.metal

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Well that didn't take to long. Here's the smoking gun on these bells for me.Early 1920's made in Mexico.Case solved. (I WILL SAY AFTER KNOWING WHAT TO LOOK FOR THE PRICES & DATES SEEM TO BE ALL OVER THE PLACE ON WHEN THEY SAY THEY WERE MADE.AND I HAVE YET TO FIND ONE LIKE MINE WITH THE EAGLE)
Take Care,
Pete,
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/antique-mexican-bronze-bell-dated-1810-nice

These bells were cast to commemorat Mexico's Independence from Spain in 1810

Good work. I had a bad feeling about these. Too many bells with the same date. Now we can add this information to the old thread as well.

Timekiller I dont like the looks of your clapper.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Well that didn't take to long. Here's the smoking gun on these bells for me.Early 1920's made in Mexico.Case solved. (I WILL SAY AFTER KNOWING WHAT TO LOOK FOR THE PRICES & DATES SEEM TO BE ALL OVER THE PLACE ON WHEN THEY SAY THEY WERE MADE.AND I HAVE YET TO FIND ONE LIKE MINE WITH THE EAGLE)
Take Care,
Pete,
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/antique-mexican-bronze-bell-dated-1810-nice

These bells were cast to commemorat Mexico's Independence from Spain in 1810

Good research, I knew it didn't look quite right for 1810, but only had gut feeling no experience in bells, so I waited
Probably buried for 50 years or so.

I have no experience in bells but I know what you mean by gut feeling. I put out the tip to search for the old thread and sat on my hands.

 

[timekiller]

Well that didn't take to long. Here's the smoking gun on these bells for me.Early 1920's made in Mexico.Case solved. (I WILL SAY AFTER KNOWING WHAT TO LOOK FOR THE PRICES & DATES SEEM TO BE ALL OVER THE PLACE ON WHEN THEY SAY THEY WERE MADE.AND I HAVE YET TO FIND ONE LIKE MINE WITH THE EAGLE)
Take Care,
Pete,
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/antique-mexican-bronze-bell-dated-1810-nice

These bells were cast to commemorat Mexico's Independence from Spain in 1810

Good work. I had a bad feeling about these. Too many bells with the same date. Now we can add this information to the old thread as well.

Timekiller I dont like the looks of your clapper.

Thanks Big C.,Yea I can't find one like mine with the coat of arms for mexico,but if you go by when that coat of arms was being used it could have a little age to it.Looks close to the Mexican Shield/Coat-of-Arms 1823-1864
Readopted 1867-1881 .See them all here...........................
http://www.loeser.us/flags/mexico_note_2.html

 

[timekiller]

(Timekiller I dont like the looks of your clapper.)=BCH QUOTE
I don't know what to make of these type bells the more I've looked the more I'm confused.But if you can believe what these ones on ebay are saying then it's not out the question for my clapper to date in the 1800's.Also some are listed as french. Mines bigger & measures 7 3/4" tall - 4 3/4" wide.
1)- Good pics. at the bottom of his post..........
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Fre...&otn=3&po=LVI&ps=63&clkid=6449952145961815125
2)-
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Est...&otn=3&po=LVI&ps=63&clkid=6450350728721853423
3)-
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Small-Antiq...&otn=3&po=LVI&ps=63&clkid=6450362269705936525

Anyway done with the bell search myself............hope it been of some help.
Take Care,
Pete,

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Wouldnt it be more rusted? Maybe Im wrong. Originally it looked like a cheap thin chain that would rust and break easily but it looks a lot stronger steel in the second pics. Sorry I dont know bells.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

It looks as if the top eagle comes off with the screw. I wonder why is the eagle greener than the bell? Maybe a different alloy? Could the eagle be older?

 

[timekiller]

Wouldnt it be more rusted? Maybe Im wrong. Originally it looked like a cheap thin chain that would rust and break easily but it looks a lot stronger steel in the second pics. Sorry I dont know bells.

It looks as if the top eagle comes off with the screw. I wonder why is the eagle greener than the bell? Maybe a different alloy? Could the eagle be older?

BCH,
Don't get mine confused with being dug,mine came from a auction me & the wife went to so the chain most likely never was in the ground.Yes the eagle would come off with the screw if I wanted to. I'm sure the eagle was cast separate from the bell but at the same time.I mean I'm sure they have always gone together in other words.But you could not leave that much of the sand mold material left on the bell in my opinion because it just wouldn't ring right with all that mold material left on it.A little about the auction it had things from the late 1800's to mid 1900's mainly.The older stuff at it seemed to be gun's a sword or two & a few pieces of funiture.This bell was there & looked odd to me so I waited and bidded on it for not more then a few dollars I also came away with the spoon below & not looked it up yet either.But was kinda neat so bidded on it.But that's the history in a nut shell on my bell. I wish I had dug it I'd feel more like I'd know or would be more sure of putting a date to it.
Take Care,
Pete,