2015 Dredging Season in California will be resolved Shortly

[NeoTokyo]

If you want to Investigate, expose and attack someone, go after people that makes our laws, not one of our opinionated brothers.

 

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[Goldwasher]

If you want to Investigate, expose and attack someone, go after people that makes our laws, not one of our opinionated brothers.[/Q
I didn't investigate a thing....or expose anything....and attack hardly......
I do what ever I can to support those who would take my rights via lies....I vote accordingly ..and educate those who don't know what I am dealing with as a gold miner.
One thing I try very hard to do is leave my opinion out of it...However when I am confused about something...when there is a situation I just don't understand I do ask questions...That's all I have done.

Keep in mind Neo that John makes it a point to make a negative remark about PLP on any thread that brings the ORG. up. He has stated why he does not support them whenever he can and given reasons....fact is by now he should just zip it when someone brings up PLP or new '49ers....but, he does have the right to keep saying what he does.....and since he does so will I!!!!

I just happen to be more articulate in my response and am not in the wrong questioning him....and as long as he keeps contradicting himself and ATTACKING the organizations that are the main reason we still have a shot at dredging(LEGALLY) I will point it out.....after all it is his words that are put here by him........I really don't have to do anything...I guess I am just paying more attention.

Gold Miner John = awesome

Voice of the gold mining community

 

[russau]

John "Hoser" Oats has been fighting FOR our mineing rights for longer than most of us have been in this mining field. He has been in deeper and involved MORE than 99% of us. he does know more of the pertanant facts and some secerat deals that have been made over the years behind closed doors. I wish I knew 1/10th of what John knows about it! he had his own manufactureing of mining equipment and store. he helped more people get involved with mining/ dredgeing than I can count! and for John tobe BITTER about what has been going on im tending to lean his way! we don't always agree on what to do about it but we CAN sit down and discuss it and we have! I admire John and all he has done and still does for us without needing a pat on the back OR any acknowledgement! I also wish there was 1,000,000,000. more miners just like him and if so , we wouldn't be in this predicament that's been being ALLOWED to happen because of our " let someone else do it for me " attitude while we are out dredgeing! this is fact NOT an assumption of mine! rather than argueing / fighting over this lets try to go out and do something positive FOR saveing our rights! to much talk aand NOT enough action on our parts! YEP , that goes for me to!

 

[Goldwasher]

John is not the only person fighting to keep dredging alive.....even though he says its dead?........at least he is still fighting ........even though he called the combined cases a " Farce".................... I'm glad he is helping take part in those hearings.........in whatever way he is...........even though he stated that anyone involved is "Mentally Disabled"

Glad he is not the sort to pat himself on the back

 

[Doug Watson]

One of the major problems is that some of the people that were behind the cause of the problems are some of the ones that are asking for money to help fight the problems they caused! He** with the government in California, we'll just move to Oregon was some of the attitude. Now look what's happening in Oregon. Like John says, it's cancer and it started on the Klamath!

 

[minerrick]

I cannot think of a more passionate man than Hoser John in regards to mining. Go to the DFG website and download the many 20+ page footnoted documents he presented to the DFG and no one was paying him for his time. When WMA first started, we were in the sights of Hoser John's un-ending negative rants. I kept wondering "what the heck did we do to him to receive his wrath- hell, he doesn't even KNOW US?". I knew he was the most outspoken "old-timer" so I kept making half-hearted overtures to him (knowing he probably didn't want to talk), and finally one day he answered my phone call. We talked at-length and I discovered his issues. Rather than present them here, suffice it to say that John is an honorable man and he has laid out defensible reasoning for his opinions. In my opinion, he has done the MOST HONORABLE THING and held back his reasoning publicly in order to NOT TO DIVIDE THE MINING COMMUNITY, and as such his online strategy pegs him as a curmudgeon and everyone leaves him alone. Since connecting with John, WMA has found him to be a HUGELY VALUABLE RESOURCE- both for historical perspectives as to what happened in the 1990's in the mining community and also for his advice and opinion in the current situation. As we all know, John is very bright and reasonable and very, very passionate about resuming mining from a lone miner perspective.

As far as the different groups defending mining- everyone has their "own ideas" on the "right way" to do things. In most cases, the reason a new group forms is because their "ideal" doesn't fit into the confines of ideals set by the existing groups. Each group has their own way of doing things. If you feel you want to support one of the groups who are fighting for mining rights, I highly recommend you extensively research how each group "does things" and find the one that most efficiently reflects the way you "do things" and see if they are compatible. John has been around for a while and has seen how "things" are done by each group and has aligned himself with the groups he feels most comfortable with; everyone here is (most likely) an adult, so you can do your own due diligence and support who you think will do "it" your way. It's that easy. Everyone has an opinion and you can choose to agree or disagree with another's opinion or develop your own opinion.

 

[NeoTokyo]

Well said MinerRick.

 

[Goldwasher]

I hope you you guys take note that I never called John a this or a that......I simply don't understand why he bashes PLP.....which Rick as a WMA big wig works with.....and why he was so against the San Bernadino hearings and its attendants at one point...yet now Is part of the whole thing.. Support him, respect him, wish you were him back in the day its all good. It does not however answer my simple questions. You guys did not answer them either. I am not trying to divide anyone. I am actually trying to point out how someone with so much valuable input seems to do so with very little explanation. I wish he himself would chime in with an answer I wouldn't even be offended if he got mad and called me names I can take it. I'm pretty sure he has read this thread, and is adding loops to a noose for me in his mind...

I never said anything wrong about any group....I support how I can...Rick I've met you twice now I remember you, I doubt you remember me( you meet a lot of miners) I'm just a small fry who shows up where and when he can. I've given money directly to Brandon...I spread the word to everyone I can. I've stood up for weekend warriors when others have bashed them.
two members here have flat out said that PLP is doing what they do to make money for themselves....we know that isn't true...I took offense and spoke against it that is all.

No need to author some back story to make me understand. I actually know quite a bit about it hence my dislike for such comments.

I hold nothing against Hoser as a a dredger....I just don't understand why he said what he said and flip flopped...I just want to know why.

I understand your immense respect for him and take no offense at your comments...I just wish they actually answered the questions I asked.

 

[minerrick]

>>Rick I've met you twice now I remember you, I doubt you remember me( you meet a lot of miners) I'm just a small fry who shows up where and when he can.<<

Goldwasher- we're all small fry's around here. I am a nobody, just like you. I was just in the right place at the right time (not exactly how my wife looks at it) to be involved with WMA. There are much more seasoned, and experienced guys (and gals) who would be of much more of an asset to the org and we always welcome anyone who wants to help. I am by no means the "brains of the operation", that is left for others much more talented than I. I wish I could directly answer your questions, but as with all organizations, some people like the way they are run and others, don't. I am sure all of us have had the opportunity to interact with each organization and found distinct reasons you would resonate with them vs reasons you think they aren't a good fit for you.

In my own conversations with lots of miners, everyone has an opinion of each one of the groups. Some very complimentary and others not so, but the bottom line is, unless you have direct knowledge of how things are run and who is doing what, it's not really fair to anyone to state their own negative opinion of ANY ORGANIZATION THAT IS IN THIS FIGHT in a public forum. I'd suggest you get out and meet lots of miners and ask them one on one and I am sure you will hear the full gamut of opinions (miners are not ones for holding back on their opinions). That's about the best I can do.

 

[Asmbandits]

In all fairness, I agree with goldwasher in that I've seen the criticism and back and forth and all he has said multiple times is to hear from John with an explanation, yet everyone but John has come on to tell him how it is and that is very obvious and confusing in itself. What everyone has said defending John while holding validity is not an answer to his posts and while I have much respect for the majority on t net John and goldwasher included, I believe goldwasher has a point with his argument and John has yet to share his side on the matter.

 

[NeoTokyo]

Why should John have to give an answer?
He has his reasons, let that be.

 

[Asmbandits]

Why should John have to give an answer?
He has his reasons, let that be.

LOL, ok now its just getting funny.. A man should be able to speak for himself, especially an educated respected and knowledgeable man like John..

I can play this game to, why should he not have to give an answer?

Like I said before I have much respect for the John and like the majority of his comments but I do see what goldwasher is saying and being that I appreciate Johns posts and respect the mans integrity, I feel the least he could do is defend it.

Were all men here, this is simple stuff.. This is a forum where people make comments and then make more given the response, his comments contradict sometimes and all were asking for is an explanation from the man that made them.. simple enough..

Some of us dont have the privilege to know John first hand or witness his doings first hand, what we know is what we can judge from what we get here and while I can see that many others will praise him to no end the man cant even respond to someone with a valid question.

Thats why he should answer.

 

[fowledup]

Intent fonts would be nice and would sure help to clear things up in the first place. Only the writer knows how he means it to sound, so sometimes the writer needs to clarify

 

[NeoTokyo]

Freedom of speech also means freedom not to speak.

Simply put, it is driving you guys nuts because he is taking the high road and not arguing about something.

No one should be forced to be part of something because someone else is, just the same, no one should have to state their reasons for that choice IN PUBLIC for all to understand.

 

[Oregon Viking]

Well I just try to keep up, absorb all the info. I'am a newbie to all prospecting/mining. I try to also follow the court cases as..... all the BS is coming (already here) to Oregon! Not sure who to support...WMA? PLP? New 49ers?
I hope you guys get back what you never should have lost...your rights!
And to those that stay atta sight atta mind..I support that too!
Now when I'm out prospecting if I see someone doing the same...I stop and ask them...hows it going? need a beer? Most of the time a conversation breaks out..creek, equipment etc. This happens on the Chetco, Smith, Sixes and the Rogue rivers...and numerous creeks, streams, brooks and the occasional culvert
Of courses beaches too...

 

[Asmbandits]

Freedom of speech also means freedom not to speak.

Simply put, it is driving you guys nuts because he is taking the high road and not arguing about something.

No one should be forced to be part of something because someone else is, just the same, no one should have to state their reasons for that choice IN PUBLIC for all to understand.

Its not driving me nuts at all, it simply looks bad and hurts his integrity as far as a can read.

He has every right to remain silent, just like someone that was caught doing something wrong... kinda makes you think..

If being a man and standing by comments you have made or not standing by them and willfully setting the record strait makes you any less of a man in your book that is a shame.

Also what is being forced upon him? No one forced him to make his comments in the first place, Its about the responsibility you hold for things you say and do in this world that make you who you are. If he wants to offend people then praise them he has every right but It doesnt make it right.

 

[minerrick]

In all fairness, I agree with goldwasher in that I've seen the criticism and back and forth and all he has said multiple times is to hear from John with an explanation, yet everyone but John has come on to tell him how it is and that is very obvious and confusing in itself. What everyone has said defending John while holding validity is not an answer to his posts and while I have much respect for the majority on t net John and goldwasher included, I believe goldwasher has a point with his argument and John has yet to share his side on the matter.

You guys act like we are all a bunch of buds, sitting at the bar. There are certain places to hold private discussions and places not to. This public forum is NOT the place to hold this discussion. I for one feel this is a lousy medium to talk about this kind of stuff- not to mention the world's eyes see it and it NEVER GOES AWAY. Many a discussion in these forums has given our opposition ammunition to go after us, so I'd suggest that everyone be REALLY CAREFUL what you say, as there are many, not so friendly eyes watching our discussions.

If the curiosity is killing you, than I figure it is YOUR problem and not John's.

The good news in my eyes is that John is materially supporting what is WMA is doing by generating amazing research for us. As I noted before, he has been an invaluable resource and as we are discussing this, John is working on some very valuable information which may be pivotal for our fight.

I personally feel if you are putting any effort into this fight (whether or not I like the way you do it), that is a good thing. And for that reason, I support what everyone who is doing something. I'd like to note that I really like what I see with AMRA. Shannon is a stand up guy, and I think we will see good things from him.

 

[Asmbandits]

At this point for myself its not about explaining himself to me in fine detail the reasons of his actions, but more so the fact that he cant even say basically what you have said for himself. I understand he doesnt have to do that but next time I see a post from him I guess i'll have to take it for what its worth..

Not a big deal at all, Im over it, not trying to get on anyone's bad side I just call it like I see it.

 

[minerrick]

At this point for myself its not about explaining himself to me in fine detail the reasons of his actions, but more so the fact that he cant even say basically what you have said for himself. I understand he doesnt have to do that but next time I see a post from him I guess i'll have to take it for what its worth..

Not a big deal at all, Im over it, not trying to get on anyone's bad side I just call it like I see it.

Trust me, I know where you are coming from, but it is what it is. We really have to be careful what we say on these forums - not only this one, but all the public forums. Miners have figured out quite inventive work arounds to get around the regs, and THEN they publish them on forums. Duh. It's like telling your opposition "lookie here, THIS IS HOW YOU NEED TO CHANGE THE WORDING TO INCLUDE THIS" and it hasn't worked out well for us. The miners need to find some sort of communication that is behind some sort of firewall. And not being terribly organized, THAT will most likely never happen. We are our own worst enemies, so be very careful about what you say about ANYTHING on this and any public forum.

This thread has evolved quite a bit. Suffice it to say, we REALLY have to be careful what we discuss in these public forums. If you know what I mean.......

 

[fowledup]

Trust me, I know where you are coming from, but it is what it is. We really have to be careful what we say on these forums - not only this one, but all the public forums. Miners have figured out quite inventive work arounds to get around the regs, and THEN they publish them on forums. Duh. It's like telling your opposition "lookie here, THIS IS HOW YOU NEED TO CHANGE THE WORDING TO INCLUDE THIS" and it hasn't worked out well for us. The miners need to find some sort of communication that is behind some sort of firewall. And not being terribly organized, THAT will most likely never happen. We are our own worst enemies, so be very careful about what you say about ANYTHING on this and any public forum.

This thread has evolved quite a bit. Suffice it to say, we REALLY have to be careful what we discuss in these public forums. If you know what I mean.......

Phew, for a minute there I thought you were saying I need to stop sharing my love for the Sierra Fund and all the fantastic things they haven't done!