2015 Dredging Season in California will be resolved Shortly

[Hoser John]

For anyone ignorant enough to believe that line of bs that is.....

 

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[Treasure_Hunter]

Warning keep the political slogans out of all threads not under our political forum.

Madjack your post was way over the line.

 

[Rdg Sluicer]

Dave made t perfectly clear that it was still illegal and you could get your gear taken. But if you wanted to dredge after Ochoas ruling the 49ers weren't going to stop you. They didn't make up their own rules they are just requiring members on their claims to revert back to the 2009 regs. Seems responsible instead of a free for all. Nobody is forcing anyone to go get arrested, everyone knows the risk. The 49ers have done as much if not more than anyone in this battle.

 

[Hoser John]

BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

 

[Rdg Sluicer]

Ok Hoser your such an expert what have you done besides sit back on your pedestal and put everyone down. You talk a big game but what have you done? It's easy to complain from your keyboard.

 

[NeoTokyo]

Alan, John has and still does a lot.
John donates money too.
He doesn't talk about it often but I have read things on these forum pages and have heard things in person about his hand in this fight.

Humble people do not talk about all the good they are doing, they just do.

 

[Hoser John]

This January I invited ALL litigants in SB(yes even mortal enemies) to my home for a mandated court ordered arbitration meeting. Behind closed doors in my clubhouse poker room(sound proofed),locked and all said inside under a friggn' gag order from Ochoa. As usual no environutz or PLOP as they know it all-All or nuttn' right hahahaha. After 2 hours of talks we went to the Fish and Shame office and spent yet another 2+ hours trying to hammer out a agreement ,even when meeting was 100% screwed by insane nazi based solutions presented. The Karuk,WMA,Walker & friend,Stopher(yes I sat within 5' and NO VIOLENCE hahaha and you say I have not suffered enough,Me,Cancer entombed inside. Erik from WMA was the organizer(flew ALL the way from Florida on his own dime,hotel rooms,rental cars etc etc and some FANTASTIC ideas and projects were initialized. As usual the few totally ruined it for the many--OMG SHADES OF 1994 EIR---I do much work for Mr Walker and the WMA because Keith is the only lone miner representing REAL commercial miners and not weekend warriors. WMA because of Rick and Erik are putting it ALL on the line for your rights. I have 5 massive piles of records in 3 rooms that are projects for these same folks to try and prove our rights were taken illegally. I have 100s and 100s of hours THIS YEAR ALONE sooooooooooo Hot shot what ya done this year hahahahaha-Funny point of fact that the rep for the tribe knew me and LOVED my Cancer on the Klamath rant as they employ folks to monitor ALL said on forums for there explicit use,his job,and you naysayers are REALLY ignorant of the ramifications of your actions. Rant on hahaha in ignorance there is . I wish the miners were half as civilized within committee as the Karuk leadership,then we'd have it made.John

 

[Rdg Sluicer]

Alan, John has and still does a lot.
John donates money too.
He doesn't talk about it often but I have read things on these forum pages and have heard things in person about his hand in this fight.

Humble people do not talk about all the good they are doing, they just do.

We all give money we all belong to different organizations. It doesn't give you the right to act like an *******.

 

[Rdg Sluicer]

This January I invited ALL litigants in SB(yes even mortal enemies) to my home for a mandated court ordered arbitration meeting. Behind closed doors in my clubhouse poker room(sound proofed),locked and all said inside under a friggn' gag order from Ochoa. As usual no environutz or PLOP as they know it all-All or nuttn' right hahahaha. After 2 hours of talks we went to the Fish and Shame office and spent yet another 2+ hours trying to hammer out a agreement ,even when meeting was 100% screwed by insane nazi based solutions presented. The Karuk,WMA,Walker & friend,Stopher(yes I sat within 5' and NO VIOLENCE hahaha and you say I have not suffered enough,Me,Cancer entombed inside. Erik from WMA was the organizer(flew ALL the way from Florida on his own dime,hotel rooms,rental cars etc etc and some FANTASTIC ideas and projects were initialized. As usual the few totally ruined it for the many--OMG SHADES OF 1994 EIR---I do much work for Mr Walker and the WMA because Keith is the only lone miner representing REAL commercial miners and not weekend warriors. WMA because of Rick and Erik are putting it ALL on the line for your rights. I have 5 massive piles of records in 3 rooms that are projects for these same folks to try and prove our rights were taken illegally. I have 100s and 100s of hours THIS YEAR ALONE sooooooooooo Hot shot what ya done this year hahahahaha-Funny point of fact that the rep for the tribe knew me and LOVED my Cancer on the Klamath rant as they employ folks to monitor ALL said on forums for there explicit use,his job,and you naysayers are REALLY ignorant of the ramifications of your actions. Rant on hahaha in ignorance there is . I wish the miners were half as civilized within committee as the Karuk leadership,then we'd have it made.John

I had no idea you were so tight with the Kruk leadership. That makes a lot of sense now.

 

[Goldwasher]

I just want to know why in another post John calls anyone involved mentally disabled....yet now he is fully entrenched and involved as can be? Seems like a big contradiction..and confusing. Would seem that someone so involved would have been at San Bernadino, and cited on court documents.

Some people just don't understand how they look when they seem kinda flip floppy.

I just want to know who is who and where they stand. Pretty easy to see with most. But when someone uses incomplete code sentences and vague inclusion, it doesn't really set the story straight.....and the last statements have not cleared up the muddy water at all.

If 49ers, GPAA, PLP, WMA, PLF, AMRA, KEENE are actively working together and supporting one another wouldn't it make sense for one knowledgeable, yet extremely negative and pessimistic dredger to ask such orgs. what he can do to help the consolidated groups vs. standing his personal ground based on past actions by a few of those groups leaders. ( kinda like all or nothing ain't it)

Would seem that what those groups want for the community is righteous and desired by membership and affiliates .I wonder how they feel having someone involved with them so fully, who is also such a major detractor of their groups?

I am only a member of this forum..and technically a few pages on facebook. I must say that I have only seen two " Miners" bash PLP and the new '49ers one being John and one who has never ever even held a dredge nozzle....yet they are the self professed experts. And present no articulate alternative. just negative laments and bashing of " WEEKEND WARRIORS" The only times I see anyone hate on these groups is here....and its not hard to see its based soley on personal attitude not actual harm.

I wonder my self if Dave wishes he had done things differently but, based on his navy seal background and the success he has had in mining I would assume that the fight and win attitude is gonna be a hard thing to remove from his train of thought. I know he didn't want things to be this way. he could give up he has other ventures that would use up less of his time and would get him more money.

Funny thing is how its literally presented that the new '49ers and PLP only exist to take our money so they can live the good life....what a joke.

at least this is the only place that I see such rubbish presented.

I put a dig together and we raised a little over 400.00 bucks together and it was handed right to Brandon for his fund. Went and stood in line with Rick Eddy, Shannon Poe, Reps from PLP and 80 other miners to stand against the new senate bill. All those groups in the same room no intergroup hate at all. lots of support even in the face of a pre-decided committee. we all stood together.

You know what not a single person there had anything negative to say against one another. I wish these threads were the same....oh, wait they typically are until a few of the same dudes chime in with their pointless hate!!!!

 

[NeoTokyo]

Wow Alan, ok then.... Moving on.

 

[Rdg Sluicer]

Wow Alan, ok then.... Moving on.

Sorry I should have worded that different. The last sentence was not referring to you.

 

[specksandflecks]

Dave and John have fundamental differences in how they purvey mining. They are probably both right and wrong. The "answer" so to speak, lies somewhere in between.

Dave chooses to promote mining in a very public, large team oriented way and has probably inspired and taught more new miners than anyone since the Buzzard himself. (Not saying John doesn't promote and educate in person either, since I know he has/does.)

Times have changed, unfortunately probably for the worse and this type of activity involving large groups of miners (although done legally, responsibly and respectably IMO) can and does make Private land owners nervous and fuels the 'wacko planet savior hypocrites for profit, non-profit my a$$ propaganda machine'.
I have been locked out of private property areas (timber company) that I and other locals used to have access to as a direct result of a potential sudden influx of many miners. Not explicit access for individual miners, though to the best of my knowledge miners, campers, swimmers etc. were tolerated for many years as in no signs and gates since even combined our numbers were few.

John probably alienates as many people as he helps here on the forums and at least a couple valuable members like Jeffro probably no longer post here because of it. Sure Jeffro is a grown man and that's his decision, people will always disagree. Still a major loss.
John can be and is cynical and divisive, and divisive is about the last thing miners need right now. In case some of you haven't noticed, THERE IS NO FILTER and his words can read like the sound of nails on a chalkboard. Though he does seem to be slightly more restrained these days, at times. I probably won't start to worry much about it unless he goes more than a week without using capslock..

He has probably lost more valuable ground and nozzle time than most members here over the years due to the corrupt hidden agenda politics, increasing restrictions with every new set of regulations and the ban. It's with dam good reason he preaches the 'keep it small, secret and quiet' doctrine as is every other bit of advise I've seen him give, countless times over the years, answers to the same questions over and over because people can't be bothered to use the search function not to mention hes also basically a living mining encyclopedia.



Anyway as far as I'm concerned it's not about choosing groups or sides. Not a one of us is perfect anyway. It's about gleaning what knowledge you can, understanding why it was given and choosing your own path.

 

[KevinInColorado]

Well said. Everyone's comments are welcome and lets go easy on each other. Some have far more experience, good and bad, than others realize. As far as I'm concerned, I welcome ALL of John's comments as he has wisdom and experience beyond what I or many of us will EVER have! If that comes with some cynicism then I just accept it and assume there's good reason for it

 

[Asmbandits]

Yes! Rable rable rable!... Sorry couldn't contain myself

I think that no matter what the arguing between all parties is departmental to the situation and should be avoided if possible, especially since everyone arguing wants the same outcome in the end. I'm sure the opposing side is happy with this and it doesn't help the cause of getting back into the water. Not saying anyone is right or wrong just that it doesn't help the situation to be devided and against eachother.

 

[Doug Watson]

I wish everyone here had the chance to be on the Klamath way back and see how things were and how they progressed over the years. There is a lot more that happened than meets the eye and unless you were there during the time you can't see the whole picture. I happen to agree with John because I was around and I saw what did happen and how it happened. So unless you were also there throughout a lot of years even before the 49ers were there ease up on John until the real facts are known.

 

[Goldwasher]

I am not trying to talk about what happened years ago I am trying to get to the bottom of Johns contradictions as they relate to his recent attitude and posts...
Why couldn't someone question someone who bashes a situation and claims to also be one of the people he was bashing.....
I doubt there will be a solid answer from him!

 

[425jesse]

John has solid answers. His experience speaks straight. You don't have to agree to appreciate his frankness. The fact that too many people filter what they really have to say sucks. And when its in caps locks, that just means it's important to that person We are all here to promote mining. Keep it positive.

 

[kayakpat]

years ago in rural areas we use to dirt bike ride, swim in creeks, camp, hunt, lots of time outdoors. Since the 80's fences, no tresspassing signs, gates have appears. Seems like no one cared about the wooded areas before but now it is all closed Lots of ideas why, but it seems like it happened everywhere, seems like that same as john has been talking about

 

[Goldwasher]

years ago in rural areas we use to dirt bike ride, swim in creeks, camp, hunt, lots of time outdoors. Since the 80's fences, no tresspassing signs, gates have appears. Seems like no one cared about the wooded areas before but now it is all closed Lots of ideas why, but it seems like it happened everywhere, seems like that same as john has been talking about

Difference is where you are Private landowners decided to stop allowing access....they were being generous!
Out here we are talking about public lands being closed off and congressional rights and laws being sidestepped and ignored it's a totally different situation.

I've only ever seen John Bashing and complaining....I know he has put a lot of effort into putting facts together and is frustrated that his efforts seem to fall on deaf ears when they get to committee.
That doesn't change the fact that he called the San Bernadino hearings a " FARCE"...and that any one attending was "MENTALLY DISABLED"

Yet, a little longer down the line he invited the parties involved to a meeting behind closed doors in a trailer park poker room, is a party to the M.S.C. and, can decide to not let P.L.P at that meeting because they ruin everything...." ALL OR NOTHING"...... even though P.L.P is a major party to the cases....He gets to decide that they don't take part in a meeting that he put together so they can come up with a settlement....but, not P.L.P cause he doesn't support their efforts

makes no sense to me at all. I would really like someone involved in the M.S.C to comment on this....
I admit I am only putting this together based directly on what has been volunteered here and written by others...I have only cited threads written on this forum...and feel that the whole story deserves to see the light of day.

What someone did in the past is not gonna stop me from questioning statements recently made that just plain don't make sense.