2015 Dredging Season in California will be resolved Shortly

[Goldwasher]

SOOOOOOO If I I chimed in on threads about supporting PLP and called them PLOP...and carpetbaggers....if I bashed the new 49ers and literally blamed them for the dredge ban.....if I called the San Bernadino cases a farce before they actually went our way and anyone involved "mentally disabled"...which includes Keene...GPAA....JERRY HOBS for gods sake think of the effort he put in... John called him mentally disabled too then...all those people....because of how HE feels HE was wronged...Like I said I just saw the comments and don't understand them.... If I came on here and said such things I would not get the same warm welcome now would I.
The way I see it is pretty common in person or on some forum... If you aren't prepared to back what you say maybe you shouldn't say it.
Fact is I will keep supporting every group I can....and there is no way I would bash groups and people that are fighting for the rights of miners..
John believes every thing he makes should be of the use to all miners who want it....I sure hope he follows through with his research and information... I sure hope when he sends off his files they are also sent off to Walt and Davemac....as they are in this fight for everyone aren't they....or will he not share with them as he has stated that they are only out for themselves?
And I am not Bashing John... Again I just don't understand his remarks....saying that he can make such remarks and doesn't have to back them because of his integrity....that he is taking the higher ground.... Really? If you read his comments here and especially anywhere else where he doesn't have the moderators we have, paints a little bit different picture. He has never help back his opinion.
I will argue with Jesus himself when I know I'm right...so either John will speak up...a few of you will keep wasting your breath (sorry fellas nothing personal) or the thread will get locked....or I won't say anything as long as I don't keep having to answer to these comments from my "opinionated brothers"

 

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[NeoTokyo]

A secure place to chat would be mIRC
It is old, it can be hard on the eyes until you change a few settings and it is a little confusing at first.

BUT it is secure, requires a channel log in that is not public and no records are saved unless you choose to save them to your computer.

mirc.com

You can also share all files through this program, in fact I knew about it from my friends back when I was in High School, they used it to share music on.
I used it to train for my Cisco tests.

There are all sorts of group chats out there though that can be easily password protected.

 

[minerrick]

Phew, for a minute there I thought you were saying I need to stop sharing my love for the Sierra Fund and all the fantastic things they haven't done!

It's OK Fowled, keep on lovin' them.

 

[minerrick]

A secure place to chat would be mIRC
It is old, it can be hard on the eyes until you change a few settings and it is a little confusing at first.

BUT it is secure, requires a channel log in that is not public and no records are saved unless you choose to save them to your computer.

mirc.com

You can also share all files through this program, in fact I knew about it from my friends back when I was in High School, they used it to share music on.
I used it to train for my Cisco tests.

There are all sorts of group chats out there though that can be easily password protected.

Neo, PM me your phone and we can talk- maybe we can get some secure form of communication going. It has to be pretty simple for an old guy like me to figure out. We would have to figure out some sort of vetting process, but maybe the forum owner can help us with that- for that matter, maybe he may want to host it. Forum Owner, PM me too as I have some ideas, but totally lack a skillset.

 

[minerrick]

Fact is I will keep supporting every group I can....and there is no way I would bash groups and people that are fighting for the rights of miners..
John believes every thing he makes should be of the use to all miners who want it....I sure hope he follows through with his research and information... I sure hope when he sends off his files they are also sent off to Walt and Davemac....as they are in this fight for everyone aren't they....or will he not share with them as he has stated that they are only out for themselves?

Goldwasher, I didn't mean for this to get personal. I don't know if I can say this any plainer...... each group has their own angle on this battle. Giving the information that John is retreiving for WMA would most likely not help either of them in their own battles. All groups are coming at this thing from different directions, so what is the point of sharing information that is of no use to your ally? And (I am sure as most people in this battle have figured out), the smaller circle of people who know the explicit details, the better.... as people do like to talk- inadvertently or not. Personally, I don't want to know all the details- we figure out what I need to do and I do it- I am "soldier" and not a "general". The strategy guys work on strategy and pretty much keep it to themselves. I think the military calls it "must know". Seems to work ok. I just do research and pipe up occasionally on forums.

 

[Goldwasher]

.....RICK........John states he is Party to the M.S.C....if he is working on valuable info concerning the dredging battle....then any info concerning it, is essential to those groups....as they too are also part of the M.S.C...
If he does prepare such valuable info and doesn't share it, it is because he is unable to move past what ever pissed him off in the past...so, think about it he could provide info that would help people that are trying to help us all.....and according to your supportive comments I guess your O.K with that
EVEN IF THE WHOLE PRE 94 BATTLE NEVER HAPPENED EVEN IF THE FIGHT WITH THA KAKROOKIDS NEVER HAPPENED THERE WOULD STILL BE GROUPS TRYING TO BAN DREDGING AND YOU ALL KNOW IT, OR SHOULD AND THAT MAKES JOHNS DISDAIN FOR THE GROUPS WHO WERE INVOLVED POINTLESS!!!!!!!!!!!
The fact that the combined groups have gotten together is the reason we started to win this (BESIDES THE FACT THAT WE"RE RIGHT)!!!!!!!!
saying that we don't need to share info that is helpful is ridiculous Rick. We are fighting the same battle. Trying to fight the same battle in different ways is almost a sure way to be picked off one by one.
WHAT IF PLP GAVE UP AND HADN"T FILED THE SUITS IT HAS THAT ARE NOW GOING IN OUR FAVOR?
What if Jerry had the same attitude as John....did he not face all the same issue or the numerous others who dredged from the early 80's on in California??
We havn't discussed any legal angle at all here I havn't asked anyone to tell how they plan to fight the opponents who read this have nothing to gain other than seeing that SOME of us don't give up and are "STANDING" with each other " REGARDLESS" of past issues.

John speaks of it like Dave and PLP knew and planned on it ending up this way... ( for their gain however that could be)I'm sure that after they saw the spin in the court room they wish they did it a little different....
Keeping in mind however that we shouldn't compromise our rights.... PLP
and how on earth do you expect a Navy Seal to give ground?? Dave

You guys are supporting a fellow miner and that is understandable.... I want to discuss how to make him a better contribution to the whole lot of us....just not who he decides deserves it.

one more thing on Integrity....
I originally linked to the thread where john Made the statement I have a problem with....though there are others.... Instead of addressing it he appeared to backpedal it was in a non related thread....where threads as we are seeing kinda get side tracked.. He took the opportunity to make his jab.... I linked the quote...His response was along the lines of "WTF I said what ....that is a thread about claims something something" and threw an insult my way.So, either he as someone who is very astute at research didn't use the link to see his own words or he doesn't want to address it. so he can jab.....not the HIGH GROUND....but, he can side step it later THE HIGH GROUND... REALLY YOU GUYS?

its not driving me nuts....but it sure does bug the crap out of me....I can't do anything about it except illustrate the situation and ask questions...there will be answers or there won't I definitely am not making anything up so I don't feel bad.

Like I said before if I came in or some other younger less experienced fella and told people essentially not to support PLP...and called the combined cases a "Farce" and anyone involved "mentally Disabled"....I sure hope I would be lambasted, chewed out, and informed that I just plain was not helping the cause...because I wouldn't be helping now would I?

 

[Hard Prospector]

I don't always agree with everything John has to say but he often makes you think. Besides, lets not forget then entertainment value his abrasive rants bring to our forums.

 

[minerrick]

Goldwasher, our angle on this whole subject is CEQA law and everyone else is fighting pre-emption and mining law. Anything we uncover regarding CEQA is not going to help the pre-emption battle. Two completely different battles and having the pre-emption guys sharing their info with us would serve no purpose as us with them.

This John thing has really gotten under your skin. Have you ever considered PM'ing him and asking him in person? Maybe he will tell you on the phone. I questioned his rants too when he was attacking WMA, and he is definitely angry and he shows it- nothing you can do about that. I definitely think the forums is NOT the place to air dirty laundry, so in my opinion you should find other venues to figure out what is bugging him if it is THAT IMPORTANT to you. In all honesty, I think your answer is staring you in the face, even in this thread and many other previous threads. I think some hints have been dropped and if you cannot read "between the lines" then I don't know what to tell you. All in all, I don't think his opinion and dirty laundry would help any aspect of this situation with the lawsuits. Can you suffice it to consider that he is just angry and is just vocal about it, and drop the whole subject? In the big picture, it really doesn't matter what John thinks as he is just a very passionate and vocal guy, but he is a single voice (no dis-respect meant towards John)

When John was making direct insults to WMA, it really didn't bother us that much, as we figured that somewhere we must of accidentally pissed a guy off. He was making vitriolic comments towards our operation for years and I finally called him and asked him "what's up" and ironed out our issues. I'm not sure why YOU personally are irritated about this. In my many years of business, I have come to the conclusion that you cannot please everyone, so if someone is pissed off about the way that you do things...... well.... oh well and move on.

 

[KevinInColorado]

Rick, on a more positive note...the oldest, wisest miners I know personally have guided me toward WMA as the best of our advocates. You're doing something right!

 

[minerrick]

Rick, on a more positive note...the oldest, wisest miners I know personally have guided me toward WMA as the best of our advocates. You're doing something right!

Kevin, everyone's got their own way of doing things and we are trying really hard to figure this whole mess out. I appreciate the vote of confidence, as we are doing the best we can with the resources available.

 

[Goldwasher]

Sorry Rick. I just feel if your gonna espouse on an open forum...if your gonna dish it you better be ready to take it... you want to say something that is basically calling out others you better be ready to be called out yourself.

Factually, John himself has called others out for questioning people on threads stating that it is an open forum and the purpose of them is such discussion..he is well versed in the etiquette of these discussion and should understand what would come his way after making the comments he has made.

I find it very hard to believe that John has not read this tread...He like I wakes up in he morning before heading out for the day has some coffee and reads up on the current events...he posts before I do....He has sent me private messages before....when I had a different handle maybe he doesn't realize that it was me, I don't know.

I am questioning him in public because he criticized others I support and believe in in public...and I believe that deserves public comment. other wise it wouldn't be a true apology and that is what is warranted in this situation considering the comments made.
As I stated my convictions are set I will not give ground on this. I have made no attempt to hide the fact that I am calling the hand and want to see the cards on the table for all the players to see.
I am not a politician or bureaucrat. I don't do my dealing behind closed doors when it involves my fellow man to save face. I really wish others here had the same integrity and conviction!

Heck, after he apologizes to all you guys..I'll even apologize for calling him out in public

 

[NeoTokyo]

GoldWasher, what was your other username?

I vaguely remember a post on this but I might just be mixed up because I spread myself to several different forums.

Were you the sniper down on the American River (I think the American river, been a while.)

 

[Goldwasher]

I was going by pvillehunter he message me because I was talking about hibanking...in public......wanted me to not discuss permits and how we don't need them in open forums

 

[Goldwasher]

I messaged him about something else but I forget what it was

 

[NeoTokyo]

Oh shoot, Pville!
I was just thinking about you the other day, wondering how you were making out this year.
I am pretty sure that you messaged me about the name change too, it just slipped my mind though, but the water is clear now.

 

[Goldwasher]

yea . I moved a little bit north...my range operation changed so I changed my name too.

 

[Reed Lukens]

I watched the video and quickly saw that Izzy and her paid scientist Carrie Monahan were still carrying on about how they did a study that showed that fishermen and their families ate the fish they caught... Karen called Carrie on that one in Foresthill when she said they got a $1,000,000.00 grant to do this study. Now I wish I could have been at that meeting but I have taken a back seat for a few years with the extreme changes in my life. But the fact that the Sierra Fund spent $1,000,000.00 to find out if fishermen eat fish was laughed out of the Foresthill meeting and Carrie Monahan was shown for what she is... Just another paid thug for the Sierra Fund Corporation. I call the SF a corporation because they are trying to become corporate dredgers now and are against small scale miners taking gold that they can take with the laws that they are introducing... Now we have Combie, Rollins, and the Bear river plans by the SF that they have started to get permission to dredge. So in my mind we have gone from fighting a non profit organization to a large Mining Corporation. This should be adressed in the next meeting and the Sierra Funds plans should be clearly presented on the table. Shannon Poe's comments were good but the attorney that spoke after him basically went way off topic and sunk the ship.
The other thing that I saw was the attire of many of us miners who were there. When going to court, you need to look nice and dress like you care. Basically a casual suit will do or wear what the attorney recommends. Read what to wear here in this link because at the same time you don't want to be over dressed either. Look at the panel, wear what they wear, a business suit or something appropriate. Courtroom Attire: Ensuring Witness Attire Makes the Right Statement

As far as it looks right now, I haven't heard anything saying that we can legally dredge here in California yet, so... We are still in the same boat and not at the bottom of the river dredging like we should be.

 

[fowledup]

Well put Reed, everytime I hear of another Sierra Fund scheme it just reinforces what I know to be true.

TSF= Organized crime is illegal behavior that is planned and carried out by groups of people in a very systematic fashion. An example of organized crime is the activities of money laundering done by the mafia.
+

Racketeering refers to criminal activity that is performed to benefit an organization such as a crime syndicate. Examples of racketeering activity include extortion, money laundering, loan sharking, obstruction of justice and bribery
=

RICO stands for the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (18 U.S.C. § 1961), a law that increases the severity of penalties for crimes performed in conjunction with organized crime.

....and it can't come soon enough

 

[specksandflecks]

Warning: /Warning.

-Pvillehunter. I remember that handle and I remember thinking, that young man, with their face for avatar and smart as a whip. Is a student of his craft to the highest order. Someday, God willing, you will trust nothing less than your life, to one younger than yourself.

AFAIK we only get 1 time around and to each their own. Through life experience the personal lens through which we see the world is ground unique.

Nowhere in this thread Have I seen anyone say your point/s are not valid. Nor do I expect a redaction or apology from Hoser.

You can and should call out hypocrisy and faults as you see fit. As will the leaders of your next generation do of you, as they take up the torch as you do now. And you shall not yield, nor go gentile into that good night.

Philosophical 'Gandhi' 'peacemaker' is not what this .02DWT is about.

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright.
"Edited" Because sorry dude, but no working mans deeds are frail..
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

That wasn't a plea for Hosers' rebuttal. It only applies to anyone who reads this thread. Myself included. All in due time.


Pville.
On Principal is your duty. On personal is your fault. I'll assume you understand the difference. /lecture /.02

 

[KevinInColorado]

BTW, the guy who wrote that awesome poem died well too. He arranged to be cremated and have his ashes shot out of a cannon during a right, rowdy wake in the CO mountains. Rage on Hunter S. Thompson!