24V Infinity Jet submersible gold sucker.... or so I hope

[Prospector70]

I was looking at the torpedo pumps and a few pond pumps that had 10,000 GPH ratings. worried about how long those could run on batteries though.
4 x 4700 GPM Bilge pumps would put out about 5 Gallons a second though. That's pretty impressive, and I am sure I could get a quad jetlog made by a welder friend of mine pretty quick. My issue is getting the bilge pumps and a couple of marine batteries, figure about 600 bucks for all those. Then you need hoses, and a crashbox and sluice, battery box for on the river, floats etc. etc. etc.

But if you compare that to a gas dredge cost, I reckon it would be about half. In reality though, you probably need a backup bilge pump, maybe two more batteries if you want to run all day, a couple of battery chargers at home, a trailer and a partner to haul all this crap in and out of a river. and a meter so you can watch your charge to make sure you don't go below 50% on the batteries.

I love this project and am watching it carefully.

PS, you could finally make that Fluid Bed into a high-banker with 5 gallons a second too. lmfao
4700 x4 = 18,800 GPH / 60 / 60 = 5.2 Gallons Per Second (That's a lotta watta)
3700 x4 = 14800 GPH / 60 / 60 = 4.1 Gallons Per Second

 

[Subdredger]

Hi Prospector 70,
Ok the 12v 4700gph pump will put out 9400 gph at 24v,so 2 pumps at 24v will put out 18,800gph
12v 3700gph pump will put out 7400 gph at 24v,so 2 pumps at 24v will put out 14,800gph

Do you see what i'm doing here?just put 24v into a 12v pump.They handle it.Been running mine 3 years on these dredges with no issues what so ever.

I made these dredges as they weigh so little,
6inch 24 pounds,compare to a 6 inch keene you are in the hundreds of pounds etc,etc,

Buy the LIFEPO4 BATTERIES OF EBAY, SO LIGHT.---OR--

Try figure out the circuit i released in previous posts,as soon as the car/bike manufactures do, imagine what this would mean for the electric car industry.

DON'T BELIEVE ANYTHING ABOUT MAGNETS AND ELECTRICITY ,THAT YOUR PUBLIC SCHOOL EDUCATION TAUGHT YOU,ITS A PILE OF CRAP.

JET LOG,All i did if you look close is plastic welded 2 inch intakes on the 6 inch dredge,they are the back pumps/rear pumps .
But some SALLEYS KNEAD IT,EBAY, and made my jets with this.

Hope all this helps.

 

[Subdredger]

Here's a pic of the 4inch bazooka dredge.

Enjoy

 

[Prospector70]

Whoa! That seems like a dream come true.
So a 12v 4700 GPH bilge will put out 9400 GPH on a 24v battery?? That's incredible. 10 gallons a second with 4 pumps at that rate.

 

[Subdredger]

Yep that's what my 6 inch dredge puts out,running 4 pumps at 24v

 

[Reed Lukens]

Your losing it because your water has a positive charge to it.
Here is a simple way to stop small gold loss.
This also works on surface dredges,and land base wash plants.
Straight after your pump in the intake before your nozzle,jet, weld a flat vein,twisted,this spins,vortexes your water anticlockwise.
It-1-increases flow and puts less load on your pumps.
2-puts a negative charge or expands the water dropping solids out .
The direction depends on which hemisphere you are so be careful.
Positive water carries gold,People mistake this for the skin effect.

So you're saying that you spin the water anti-clockwise in the southern hemisphere and clockwise in the northern right? It looks like you're using PVC, but abs is a lot lighter, why is that? Do you have a pic of the venturi going into your drop box? Or is it anti- clockwise also?

 

[Subdredger]

So you're saying that you spin the water anti-clockwise in the southern hemisphere and clockwise in the northern right? It looks like you're using PVC, but abs is a lot lighter, why is that? Do you have a pic of the venturi going into your drop box? Or is it anti- clockwise also?

Hi Reed.
Clockwise here in New Zealand ,southern hemisphere,anticlockwise in the northern, hemisphere.

All you do is follow what a LOW does over head,

A ,low pressure over head you will find the river doesn't carry the gold ,and the river will be crystal clear Not CARRYING SEDIMENT.

A high pressure over head you will find the river filthy but it hasn't been raining,the high pressure lifts the gold,and sediment into your river.

I hope this helps.

For me in these dredges i turn the water clockwise before the jets,nozz and this puts negative low water going over top of the the bazooka trap,gold will not lift into neg water.
The gold off the river if i'm dredging in a High will stick to the bottom of the tube and go straight into the baz trap.

I will post pics of trap soon,

I have a lot more info for detectors.


[Thread Edited, Keep attacks out of Posts Please ! http://www.treasurenet.com/index.php?pageid=rules ]

 

[Clay Diggins]

Plastic dredge nozzles? Interesting.

Negative clockwise low water? Self recharging batteries? High pressure lifts gold? Must be a new science. Maybe you could explain the physics behind this stuff. You know old time physics for us old timers who don't understand the terminology of your new physics. I wasn't even aware the old physics didn't apply any more.

Goldwasher the idiot has cost everyone? Gold frequencies in the khz range? Does this mean you are taking your magic ball home and we are all going to have to limp along with gravity separation and batteries that need to be replaced?

Nice guy. I sure hope he comes back with more new science treats.

Dam Goldwasher - you've ruined it for us again.

Heavy Pans

 

[Oregon Viking]

Plastic dredge nozzles? Interesting.

Negative clockwise low water? Self recharging batteries? High pressure lifts gold? Must be a new science. Maybe you could explain the physics behind this stuff. You know old time physics for us old timers who don't understand the terminology of your new physics. I wasn't even aware the old physics didn't apply any more.

Goldwasher the idiot has cost everyone? Gold frequencies in the khz range? Does this mean you are taking your magic ball home and we are all going to have to limp along with gravity separation and batteries that need to be replaced?

Nice guy. I sure hope he comes back with more new science treats.

Dam Goldwasher - you've ruined it for us again.

Heavy Pans

You just gotta believe...

 

[Subdredger]

old physics actually.
If you had of listened to N tesla,and viktor shauberger instead of killing them ,you would know also.

Carbon nozzles ,undercoated white sprayed grey green,top coat to match the river,.

Stay in the dark and good luck to you.

Good luck carrying 500 pound dredges down gorges.running 160 year old sluices,times have changed boys get with it or retire.

 

[Reed Lukens]

The first time that I heard about rotating of the water was from Trev Alty about 20 years ago, he told me anti-clockwise also but I didn't need it on my surface dredge then... but now... your dredge looks interesting. He uses a 6" style submersible dredge with a boil box or fluid bed to catch the gold and it does a great job. It's the same principal that we see in the Bazooka Sluice boxes these days and it's been proven to work great long ago, in fact, his boil box was the fluid bed design that jump-started the Bazooka style fluid bed Sluices that we have here these days. If you have any more pics of the inside of your catch box, I'd love to see them. These days being retired and with the current ban on dredging in California, I've been traveling all over and could easily fit a small suitcase style dredge in my truck, so your system looks like it has some good ideas built in and I already have 400amp hours of batteries with 420watts of solar ready to go Can you send me some plans? The 4" would be a good start for me and I've built my own PVC jets before, they work fine. Plus I have a good welder also if needed along with suitcase style dredging experience from decades past.

 

[Clay Diggins]

The first time that I heard about rotating of the water was from Trev Alty about 20 years ago, he told me anti-clockwise also.

That's confusing Reed. Trev lives in New Zealand - South of the equator. Wouldn't it be the other way round there?

None of that makes any sense anyway. A rotating column of water travels further than an aligned column over the same distance. More rotation directly relates to more friction, power loss and less suction. Not the best plan for a dredge that's already pressure challenged.

Electric Sub dredges are well developed in industry. There is no need to reinvent the wheel here. Offshore oil and gas miners as well as bridge builders use electric sub dredges extensively. This should give you an idea of how much electric power is needed to effectively operate a 6 inch electric dredge with no back pressure from a fluid bed. The 3,000 psi you need to effectively move sand through a 6 inch tube just isn't going to happen with a 24v battery no matter who killed Tesla (it wasn't me).

Poke around that site and you will get an idea of the tools professionals use.

Heavy Pans

 

[SunshineMiner]

No offense clay.. But your comparing dredging in a stream or shallow river to comparing dredging... in the ocean? I wonder what the PSI is in a 6" dredge hose from a keene or Proline pump. I guaruntee its not over 300psi...

Hes moving a TON of water thats requiring ZERO lift. He doesnt have 20 ft hoses to push/pull material through. He has almost 0 friction loss. Unless he DOES use a 20ft+ hose... I can see this being very viable. Just because you havent seen it work, or tried it yourself, doesnt mean it cant be done or doesnt work. Keep an open mind, and hey, personnally.. I hope he does have vids to prove this thing does what he says it does. Now, the high and low pressure system thing lifting and moving gold?... I'm not so sure I buy THAT one. Otherwise all of Californias gold would have washed away generations ago with all the High pressure systems we get throughout the summer

 

[Reed Lukens]

I've ran and built simple underwater dredges, it's under water so there is no lift. It takes about 2/3gpm of a surface dredge to run a subbie. A P180 puts out around 350gpm, which is minimum for a 4" surface dredge in my opinion. Keene says their 4" subbie will run on a P100 pump and it does but just barely. There's no reason to not listen to what the has to say, the only true test is to do it yourself.

The high and low pressure system that he's trying to explain is a simple fluid bed. He's just not showing pictures, which is pretty much the only way to see it. I'm sure Russ has the pics but I don't anymore. This is old school boiler box, fluid bed dredging and a 4" suitcase will run great on 200gpm. I already have the pumps and batteries,though I've never tried running it at 24vdc, it's definitely worth a shot to see if it works. Honing and polishing the inside of the pump and supply pipe including the jet also increases the flow but with enough GPM, it's not going to be needed anyway.

 

[Clay Diggins]

No offense clay.. But your comparing dredging in a stream or shallow river to comparing dredging... in the ocean? I wonder what the PSI is in a 6" dredge hose from a keene or Proline pump. I guaruntee its not over 300psi...

Hes moving a TON of water thats requiring ZERO lift. He doesnt have 20 ft hoses to push/pull material through. He has almost 0 friction loss. Unless he DOES use a 20ft+ hose... I can see this being very viable. Just because you havent seen it work, or tried it yourself, doesnt mean it cant be done or doesnt work. Keep an open mind, and hey, personnally.. I hope he does have vids to prove this thing does what he says it does. Now, the high and low pressure system thing lifting and moving gold?... I'm not so sure I buy THAT one. Otherwise all of Californias gold would have washed away generations ago with all the High pressure systems we get throughout the summer

No offense taken Sunshine.

You are right that lower pressures are needed for near surface dredging. I can't really address what that other poster wrote because I stopped reading his posts when he threw the laws of physics out the door. Here's an example of why this won't work the way Reed hopes it does.

A 6" Keene is moving about 500 gallons per minute at ~45 psi just below the surface. That's done with approximately 20 horsepower. 20 hp = 15,000 watt draw in electric terms. So a 6" gas powered high torque gas motor pair clearly consumes 15,000 watts before hoses or depth come into the picture. No lift - No friction.

To produce the same volume and pressure on a 6 inch nozzle at the surface a 24 volt electric dredge would consume 15,000w/24v = 625 amps per hour. That means Reed could dredge for less than 40 minutes before he consumed his entire 400 amp hour battery supply. That's if he didn't start a fire. As you know 15,000 watts is going to have considerable energy loss in the form of heat on his motor windings, connectors and wiring. That's a heavy draw.

All these figures are unrealistically optimistic and don't take into account water friction or water pressure (water requires more energy to displace at depth even when there is no lift factor). A pump moving at high speed experiences a lot more water friction than a pump at lower speed. In real life Keene 6 inch dredges don't move 500 gpm and electric motors only get about 90% pumping efficiency and 85% efficiency from the battery. Now we are talking less than a half hour for Reed to dredge. Take that down to a 4 inch dredge and you will still get less than an hour of dredging.

The First Law of Thermodynamics hasn't changed. You can't replace a 20 hp motor 500gpm pump setup with a portable battery and three 24 volt electric 78 gpm rotary pumps (4700 gph). You can't have self recharging batteries, Tesla or Homer Simpson notwithstanding. It's that first law thing.

Is that a more accurate comparison? Sometimes the devil is in the details.

Heavy Pans

 

[Reed Lukens]

Proline HP500, 500gpm pump comes with a 9hp motor.
Proline Mining Equipment/Parts and Accessories/Engine and Pump Combos

 

[Clay Diggins]

I've ran and built simple underwater dredges, it's under water so there is no lift. It takes about 2/3gpm of a surface dredge to run a subbie. A P180 puts out around 350gpm, which is minimum for a 4" surface dredge in my opinion. Keene says their 4" subbie will run on a P100 pump and it does but just barely. There's no reason to not listen to what the has to say, the only true test is to do it yourself.

The high and low pressure system that he's trying to explain is a simple fluid bed. He's just not showing pictures, which is pretty much the only way to see it. I'm sure Russ has the pics but I don't anymore. This is old school boiler box, fluid bed dredging and a 4" suitcase will run great on 200gpm. I already have the pumps and batteries,though I've never tried running it at 24vdc, it's definitely worth a shot to see if it works. Honing and polishing the inside of the pump and supply pipe including the jet also increases the flow but with enough GPM, it's not going to be needed anyway.

I have run a few subbies. I ran an original bazooka sub decades ago - there's a flash from the past eh? I tried a homemade suitcase too. They both lost considerable gold in two ways. I'm guessing you are experienced enough to know what those two ways are. I know how a subbie fluid bed works - or doesn't.

Thanks for your input. Study what I wrote above and then go try it if you wish. I wish you good luck on your upcoming education and unlike most of the videos here I will watch yours when you are done.

Heavy Pans

 

[Clay Diggins]

Proline HP500, 500gpm pump comes with a 9hp motor.
Proline Mining Equipment/Parts and Accessories/Engine and Pump Combos

The HP500 has a nominal (they wish) 500 gpm -no psi- no friction, actual is around 380 gpm at 30 psi on a 6 inch at surface with two 9 hp motors. The Keene figures for the twin 10 hp P350S pump are probably about the same in real life. That's still in the 15,000 watt range for either unit. That darn First Law applies to both Proline as well as Keene. Advertising fluff doesn't change the physics.

Heavy Pans

 

[Reed Lukens]

Actually subbies only rely on staying level if they are built with standard riffles. Reggie Gould's design worked pretty good for what it was with the spiral riffle system. Obviously a full sized surface dredge with huge gas motors will work better... But in California, we don't have that option anymore, legally anyway, so... I'm thinking out of the box here obviously, I'm almost ready to sell my old dredges that can't be used here anymore, my dreams of dredging my claims for extra retirement income were smashed in 2009, so going silent and portable with another subsurface is better than nothing. I have 2 Gast compressors sitting here along with a couple T80's, and this little subbie looks like it has possibilities with some mods of course... The fact is, it doesn't pay to not listen to what other people are using and talking about. Is it the best? No, but can it be used underwater with nobody complaining about the motors and gas and the guy dredging...?
I like building practical projects that I can use. A spiral jet classification separating -1/4" into a fluid bed with a 3" intake in a 4" tube has possibilities in this police state where all roads are gated off...

My last practical dredge project CAN'T be used anymore in this state, and not being allowed to dredge for gold in my area because of lies and bs was not my plan in any way...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=376s&v=2hp0fzLzZBs

 

[arizau]

Just a few of my thoughts.

It appears to me that Subdredger's original intent was to offer up (for free so far) some of his ideas for a DIY, somewhat innovative, at least to me, dredge design that seems to work for him. The implication from his previous posts is that he is past the testing stage and actually uses them. If they actually work as claimed or even somewhat then they seem to be a viable option for some DIY'ers on this forum especially those who are on a budget. He mentioned that he is from New Zealand where dredging seems to be legal but he also said "undercoated white sprayed grey green,top coat to match the river,. Stay in the dark and good luck to you". That kind of implies usage, be it legal or not could possibly be disguised and may be a hint. That said, I have no idea about actual/projected pump life, battery operating time and actual (not based on tech specs) operating GPM/H, etc. nor do I have an idea how well his "bazooka trap" works. I hope that he is still monitoring this thread and will come back to answer some of those or other questions and maybe offer up some videos, etc. that might give us all a little more enlightenment.

Oops...just noticed I stepped on part of your post Reed. Great/devious minds think alike?