2nd Division WWI Helmet Indian Head....REAL or FAKE?

[aarond]

I'm new to blogs or threads, so excuse any mistakes I make.

I just purchased a questionable WWI 2nd Division helmet with an Indian head on the top. Usually I see them on the front of the helmet, but I have seen a few originals like this. Also there is "2nd" (assuming 2nd Division), painted in white on front of helmet. It looks like this was once a 1st Division or Marine helmet as I see remnants of the red one. Could it be possible that someone repainted and used this one as a 2nd division from the period? Or am I completely misguided by this dealer I purchased from? I know that a lot of fakes are out there so I need to know. I would hate putting a fake on the open market. I didn't pay an incredible amount for this piece, but regardless, it would be a relieve to find out the real truth.

I am very open to opinions. I've heard 3 different opinions from reputable dealers. "It's real, it's fake, I don't know"....

Thanks!

 

[surf]

Hello aarond,

Welcome to TNet, and thanks for showing us your helmet.

I know nothing of World War I helmets, but it does strike me as profoundly unmilitary.

Chapter 1: American Military History, Volume II

 

[sasnz]

I am not familiar if any Indian Americans fought in WW1 but that is something you might be able to research yourself. that in itsleft might answer some questions. Here is a helmet i sold a few years ago on Ebay...got very good money for it so they can definitely be worth something to the right buyer.

 

[aarond]

I thank you for your time and for posting some photos. I have done some extensive research on this helmet, and found out it is probably a VFW (Veterans of Foreign Wars) or an American Legion helmet painted at the end of the war, or shortly after. Used to display all the AEF Divisions that fought in Europe. It might have been a parade piece too.

I listed this one on ebay starting at 149.99. Is that too high? I'm in it for a little less than that.

Regards,

Aaron

 

[aarond]

Sasnz, your helmet was really nice. Did it have the liner and chin strap?

 

[sasnz]

Hi aa

Yes mine had the Liner but didn't have the strap. I think I ended up getting about 750$US for mine but that was about 3-4 yrs ago...markets and trends change so I have no idea what it would be worth today. I think I started Mine at $1 no reserve. mine obviously has alot more of a story to it on the painting but regardless I am pretty sure you would get more than $150 for it. Here was the thing for my auction, it was at about $100US 6 seconds before close and then jumped up to $750, there were 3 bidders who used a snipe programme to bid on the last seconds of the auction. I am pretty sure your ask is not alot.

Google ebay Snipe programme if you haven't heard of it.

 

[HutSiteDigger]

The two photos are of the helmets that are typically from the 2nd Division with an Indian on them, looking @ the color and printing of your helmet it almost look like someone painted that on there during the 1970s, anyhow I will not say if it is real or fake but I do question it. Good luck!

 

[tlowery04]

is it me or does it look like there is a big red one to the top side of the two?

 

[scurvy_seadog]

The two photos are of the helmets that are typically from the 2nd Division with an Indian on them, looking @ the color and printing of your helmet it almost look like someone painted that on there during the 1970s, anyhow I will not say if it is real or fake but I do question it. Good luck!

that bottom one has the US Marine's Globe and anchor on it then painted with the 2nd Inf Div. Which makes sence because the US Marines comanded the 2nd infantry Divsion during ww1 so they may be lagit.

 

[scurvy_seadog]

View attachment 742312I am not familiar if any Indian Americans fought in WW1 but that is something you might be able to research yourself. that in itsleft might answer some questions. Here is a helmet i sold a few years ago on Ebay...got very good money for it so they can definitely be worth something to the right buyer.View attachment 742311

Those way post ww1

 

[HutSiteDigger]

that bottom one has the US Marine's Globe and anchor on it then painted with the 2nd Inf Div. Which makes sence because the US Marines comanded the 2nd infantry Divsion during ww1 so they may be lagit.

The main thing would be finding another one out there like this and comparing it... Looks like someone is got a lot of work to do to see if this is legit it could very well possibly be..

 

[scurvy_seadog]

One more thing the paint used on these were a green with sawdust paint if the original sawdust paint is still there that is how you tell if it is legit. the division paint should be also painted with the sawdust paint any smooth acrylic paint then it is most likely a fake.

 

[HutSiteDigger]

Those way post ww1

To me this helmet that Sasnz had the color looks fairly worn much more then the one in question for being that old.. Then again the helmet could have been stored in a nice dry place,etc. Like i said i really do not know but i would question this with an wwI helmet expert if i was going to buy it!

 

[scurvy_seadog]

maybe go to the pawn stars and have a expert look at them and get your five min of fame? worth a shot i think they are cool no matter what.

 

[aarond]

There is a big red one underneath.

 

[aarond]

The helmet was once an original 1st Infantry Division helmet as the red one is visible, so I know this was, at one time, a combat helmet for the 1st. It is a REAL WWI helmet, just the Indian paintings are what I wanted to verify. It does appear to be painted after the war. Maybe shortly after, or decades. The "2nd" painted in white looks to have more age. That being said, I think both paintings on helmet were done by different people at different times.

I am enlightened so much more on this piece thanks to posting on blogs/threads. Thank you everyone for your input! I welcome any more opinions!

I listed this piece on ebay under the title: Original WWI M1917 VFW American Legion 2nd Division Indian Head Helmet

Starting @ 149.99. There are 7 people watching this helmet already, and mounting views. Anybody else who is interested, please feel free to check it out. My ebay username is: sdoughty721

I also have more WWI and WWII collectibles posted.

I hope am not breaking any blog rules by adding this info.

Regards,

Aaron

 

[diggummup]

I like it better than my WWII converted hippie helmet - http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/what/332121-any-ideas-helmet.html