4 Reale COB!!!! Bucket list check off?!

[surfnturf]

Went back to the desolate beach with possible historic innuendos!
Well, I gotta say my research and development hit! not gold, but the next best thing!!
My second best coin found in 18 years of detecting! I’ve been so jazzed today. This is just a phenomenal fine for me!! it’s out there. You just gotta get it. I hope you enjoy!

 

[surfnturf]

Holy sh*t SNT, what an EPIC find, CONGRATS!!

When you say "desolate" beach, do you mean that the beach was just empty/desolate because it's currently off season, or do you mean that it's really a desolate beach, i.e., one that people don't sunbathe or go to daily during the summer warm weather? Just checking for a theory I have.

Great question because it’s a beach that is off the beaten path also it’s slightly difficult to get to there are many other beaches here that tourists and people will go to because it’s easier. I got real lucky and decided to just go and check a couple of these dirt road secluded beaches, I mostly try and check on Google Earth to see if there’s a parking lot thus more people visiting the beach. This beach doesn’t really have a designated parking. I really wasn’t expecting to find much jewelry. Just really stoked on all the silver me and my friends pulled.🏴‍☠️

 

[mrwiskers]

#1...Mucho Kudos on the sharp, focused, well lit photos ... your photos give us a lot of info ...see attached diagram ...

...Definitely from the Lima, Peru colonial mint, as indicated on the design: the "waves" dip down in the middle, below the date (a feature that was exclusive to the Lima mint) ...

...visible on this cob's "Pillars & Waves" side is all the info we need ... you have the mint mark "L" (Lima) visible, the denomination "4" (reales) visible, & the mint assayer's mark/initial "H" visible ... visible in the center of the design is (most of) the Latin motto: PLVSVLTRA (plus ultra/"more beyond" ... the letter "V" is used in place of "U" in Latin...) ... on the bottom row, center, you can barely make out the 3-digit date "7 0 4" (for 1704 ... last three digits only were used to represent the date on this era's coinage at the Lima, & other colonial mints) ...

...correct silver purity for this cob was set at .931 pure, but the salt exposure has most likely leached some copper from the coin, thus, making the purity a bit higher ... correct weight for a 1704 Lima 4 reales was set @ 13.73 grams, but this coin is likely under that weight due to corrosion ...

...MAN! ... that's a cool find! ... I had assumed that you were on Florida's "treasure coast", but as sandog pointed out, looks more like another location ... I'd be scouring that area ...

...I've included a pic of another 4 reales, same date, for comparison ...

...p.s. ... anyone interested: search "cob Pillars & Waves design", & learn the significance, so you'll know what you're looking at next time the opportunity rolls around...

 

[Sand Swinger]

Great question because it’s a beach that is off the beaten path also it’s slightly difficult to get to there are many other beaches here that tourists and people will go to because it’s easier. I got real lucky and decided to just go and check a couple of these dirt road secluded beaches, I mostly try and check on Google Earth to see if there’s a parking lot thus more people visiting the beach. This beach doesn’t really have a designated parking. I really wasn’t expecting to find much jewelry. Just really stoked on all the silver me and my friends pulled.🏴‍☠️

BINGO, thanks SNT! That confirms my theory, along with my personal experience, Terry Shannon, and a couple other local guys here. I've always theorized that objects move in ocean waters. I posted here about objects moving in the ocean earlier this year and think I started a civil war. Guys were chiming in swearing up and down that objects don't move, they drop and stay where they were dropped.

So, imagine my surprise to hear those opinions because in 2012, I found a girl's HS ring, and when I returned it to her, she mentioned the beach where she lost the ring, but that beach is 10+ miles south of where I found it. Terry Shannon says that some of his best finds were made "between beaches", so not on the typically visited and congested beaches, but on desolate stretches of beach in between where most beach goer's go.

The coins look like they've been under water for some time, especially the 4 Reale. That one's been underwater for probably 300+ years. Since you mentioned this is a beach where people don't go, difficult to get to, no parking, other more popular beaches with parking nearby, I think the coins & rings you found were dropped/lost at other, more popular & more populated beaches and then moved by ocean currents, waves, tides, winds, to the stretch of beach you were searching. And, unless there's a Spanish shipwreck submerged offshore in front of your beach, that 4 Reale must have been moved from another location over the last 300 years.

 

[surfnturf]

#1...Mucho Kudos on the sharp, focused, well lit photos ... your photos give us a lot of info ...see attached diagram ...

...Definitely from the Lima, Peru colonial mint, as indicated on the design: the "waves" dip down in the middle, below the date (a feature that was exclusive to the Lima mint) ...

...visible on this cob's "Pillars & Waves" side is all the info we need ... you have the mint mark "L" (Lima) visible, the denomination "4" (reales) visible, & the mint assayer's mark/initial "H" visible ... visible in the center of the design is (most of) the Latin motto: PLVSVLTRA (plus ultra/"more beyond" ... the letter "V" is used in place of "U" in Latin...) ... on the bottom row, center, you can barely make out the 3-digit date "7 0 4" (for 1704 ... last three digits only were used to represent the date on this era's coinage at the Lima, & other colonial mints) ...

...correct silver purity for this cob was set at .931 pure, but the salt exposure has most likely leached some copper from the coin, thus, making the purity a bit higher ... correct weight for a 1704 Lima 4 reales was set @ 13.73 grams, but this coin is likely under that weight due to corrosion ...

...MAN! ... that's a cool find! ... I had assumed that you were on Florida's "treasure coast", but as sandog pointed out, looks more like another location ... I'd be scouring that area ...

...I've included a pic of another 4 reales, same date, for comparison ...

...p.s. ... anyone interested: search "cob Pillars & Waves design", & learn the significance, so you'll know what you're looking at next time the opportunity rolls around...View attachment 2234310View attachment 2234311

Incredible! thank you so much for the plethora of info!! I appreciate your effort and knowledge! made my day 😎with the identification of a Lima!
Definitely not in Florida up in New England!🏴‍☠️

 

[TORRERO]

That’s been there for a long time… congratulations

 

[mrwiskers]

For those who believe (sunken) objects don't move in/under water: read the storys of recovery of the ATOCHA, the 1715 FLEET, the 1733 FLEET, & many other instances where items were recovered miles from where they originally sunk. Storm & wave action constantly churn & disturb shallow ocean bottoms ... ask any professional fisherman in the Gulf of Mexico, & points along the America's "hurricane alley" ... Wife & I visit Fort Morgan Alabama beach regularly, & the beaches & shallow bottoms are never the same...always shifting ... to think all objects sink & stay in place in the oceans is a poor assumption, ignorance, & lack of experience in such matters ...

 

[surfnturf]

BINGO, thanks SNT! That confirms my theory, along with my personal experience, Terry Shannon, and a couple other local guys here. I've always theorized that objects move in ocean waters. I posted here about objects moving in the ocean earlier this year and think I started a civil war. Guys were chiming in swearing up and down that objects don't move, they drop and stay where they were dropped.

So, imagine my surprise to hear those opinions because in 2012, I found a girl's HS ring, and when I returned it to her, she mentioned the beach where she lost the ring, but that beach is 10+ miles south of where I found it. Terry Shannon says that some of his best finds were made "between beaches", so not on the typically visited and congested beaches, but on desolate stretches of beach in between where most beach goer's go.

The coins look like they've been under water for some time, especially the 4 Reale. That one's been underwater for probably 300+ years. Since you mentioned this is a beach where people don't go, difficult to get to, no parking, other more popular beaches with parking nearby, I think the coins & rings you found were dropped/lost at other, more popular & more populated beaches and then moved by ocean currents, waves, tides, winds, to the stretch of beach you were searching. And, unless there's a Spanish shipwreck submerged offshore in front of your beach, that 4 Reale must have been moved from another location over the last 300 years.

I love it, the endless amount of wonder! Always sit down with some hunting buddies and talk about how when, where, what, and how? affects the way targets move in the water I believe targets will move. I’ve seen some pretty crazy storms and the power of moving tons of water is pretty incredible.

 

[Sand Swinger]

I love it, the endless amount of wonder! Always sit down with some hunting buddies and talk about how when, where, what, and how? affects the way targets move in the water I believe targets will move. I’ve seen some pretty crazy storms and the power of moving tons of water is pretty incredible.

Objects dropped in the Bay may drop down, sink, then stay, but the Bay doesn't have the same violent waves, current & tides that the ocean has.

I hunted right after the nor'easter and saw this up near the top of the dry. If the ocean can move something this big and heavy that far up on the sand, it certainly can move rings, bling, jewelry, coins or whatever it wants to anywhere it wants, lol.

 

[surfnturf]

Wow, thank you Terry. I’ve been extremely fortunate. This will be my fourth and my first 4 real! They were all found at the beach. I have also found a milled 2 real.
For me, my inner child screams, you found the Pirates treasure stash🤣🏴‍☠ and I just realized I’ve been spelling Real wrong😎 oh well that’s what you get for being a little dyslexic or a lot🍻

Here is the pirate treasure stash 🏴‍☠️

 

[mrwiskers]

...very nice assortment of pirate treasure...need better pictures, but here's what I can see from visible details...

 

[surfnturf]

More pics

 

[mrwiskers]

...good photos ... here's what I can see ...
coin #1 ... this is a Mexico City cob struck during the reign of Charles II, under mint assayer Geronimo Becerra ... Becerra's initial mark "G" is below the Mexico City mint mark, small "o" over a larger "M", o/M, to the left of Charles' (Carlovs / Latin spelling) stylized monogram.. ("stylized" is when they would jam the letters together, & sometimes, count a specific letter as containing 2 letters ... example, the letter "H", one of the letter's columns would also count as an "I", or the letter M, contains a "V" in the center ...can be confusing at first, as we're talking Spanish names written in old Latin...) ...
..NOTE: STYLIZED MONOGRAMS were only used on 1/2 real cobs ... all other, larger denominations used either the 'shield' design, of the "Pillars & Waves" design. This is important to know, as larger denominations were often cut down in size & weight, & could be confused with an origional 1/2 real because of the cut bit's size ...

...the reverse of this cob displays the "floriated" cross ( fluted ends with a ball or flower tip ), with lions & castles ... in the New World, the Floriated Cross was unique to the Mexico City mint, all other colonial mints using a plain-tipped "Jerusalem Cross" (...think: a plus sign...+...)

...as assayer Becerra's term was between 1667 - 1678, we can date the cob's striking to this period ...

...this is a nice little half real, with a good amount of identifying detail ... great find! ...hope the attached diagram helps ...

 

[mrwiskers]

...Coin #2 ... this one is a Potosi colonial mint, 2 reales, dated 1766 ... the mint had 2 acting assayers, both of their initial marks appear on this cob ... the assayers were Jose de Vargas y Flor, "V", & Raimundo de Yturriga, "Y" ... difficult to make out, but lots of detail on this cob as well, as shown in the diagram attached ... You have two 3-digit dates (766 for 1766), an assayer's initial on each side, a mint mark ("P"), as well as a lot of the motto: "PLVSVLTRA" ( Latin / " PLUS ULTRA" ("MORE BEYOND") ... note the use of the letter "V" as a substitute for the letter "U", as there is no "U" in Latin spelling ...)

...the dates were hard to see at first, but they're there ... & can be confirmed by the co-assayer's tenure dates ... nice cob, great find!...please see attached diagram & pic...

...BTW...if you stare at the cross side long enough, the two 6s of the date will come into view ... weird, huh?...

 

[mrwiskers]

...cob #3 would require study in hand ... it is a 1/2 real, but unsure of the mint & date, as not enough detail is visible in the photos ... still a neat find! ...

 

[mrwiskers]

...coin #4 is the famous "PISTAREEN", or "2-BITTS" as commonly called in the day ... this one's easily identified ... 1724 / 2 Reales minted in Madrid, Spain, under Philip V, during his 1st reign ...BTW... Philip V abdicated to his son Louis I, in 1724 ... poor, sickly Louis died after reigning for less than 7 months, one of the shortest reigns in European history. Philip V took over again, as king & reigned until his death in 1746 ... very nice find ...

 

[mrwiskers]

...surfnturf, I hope this info helps ... the last coin doesn't show enough in the pics to further identify, & is most likely a Mexico City 1/2 real ... the 1776 date is significant, huh?...possibly a local dealer could identify the mint mark with the coin in hand ...

...these coins are just terrific ... if you haven't already, I'd suggest documenting where you found them ... these coins circulated in the USA legally until the Coinage Act of 1857 ... they are tied in to our economic development & growth as a nation ... to me, their historical significance outweighs their numismatic value ... thanks for sharing, I enjoyed i.d.'ing what I could...

 

[surfnturf]

Thank you, thank you…. your the man!!
Really appreciate the work you have done!
Love the information!

 

[mrwiskers]

...my pleasure, surfnturf ... BTW ... a guy in the Chesapeake Bay area found a Charles II 1/2 real, Mexico city mint, same assayer "G" ... notice the similarity in shape, almost tear-drop in shaped ... Jim found this one in 1998 ... I bought it on eBay this year ... Spanish cobs have also been found in my area, Germantown, TN (Memphis area) ...

 

[Almy]

Wonderful finds and captivating dialog and information about them for someone who enjoys coins and this kind of history and who will very likely never find a cob! Thank you all!

 

[mrwiskers]

Wonderful finds and captivating dialog and information about them for someone who enjoys coins and this kind of history and who will very likely never find a cob! Thank you all!

...allow me to add an interesting, little known tidbit of info on Mexican coinage: ... The new Republic of Mexico began minting coins at various mints, starting in 1824 ... At these Mexican mints, due to lack of acid and fuel supplies, the process of separating gold from silver was not up to the standards of the US mints. By 1850, the US mints had discovered that Mexican silver coinage, particularity from 3 specific mints, contained anywhere from 4% to 7% gold, by weight.
...The US government began buying these Mexican pesos in bulk, thus, melting & separating gold from the silver. They would then use the further refined metals to mint US silver & gold coinage.
...The 3 mints, the main source for this endeavor, were: Durango, Guanajuato, & Zacatecas ... if you have, or find, any of these silver coins, make a special note...