A SAD DAY... Big Brother IS Watching...Some advice for you all.

[golden silver]

Today was a sad and alarming day for me guys. I know some of you have your own stories to tell but now I Golden Silver have one of my own. Are you sitting down? Today I was interogated by NCIS. To those who do not know that is the Military's form of the FBI. I will try and make this brief but it probably won't be.

At first I did not know why I was there but then I remembered another member of this forum telling a story about getting pulled aside at his bank and asked questions by the FBI. I have to be honest I am not sure I bought the story completely until now. They began by asking me my backround information and asked me if I handle a lot of money on the regular basis. I said that I did. Then they proceded to ask how many bank accounts that I have and I was up front and honest. I told them about 10 and where I had them. They asked me why I had them and I explained this hobbie. I am sorry but In this instance I think I am allowed to break rules #1 and #2 of CRHing. It is noteworthy to mention that they were stone faced and serious durring the entire questioning. I was very nervous but stayed straight faced and tried to appear calm because I knew if I was jittery they would be suspicious of my nervousness. They asked me how much a week I went through and how much money per year have I gone through. I said that I was not completely sure but it was over $200,000. Can you believe this guys but they new exactly how much I had gone through. They said it was more like $300,000. What they did next shocked me even more. They pulled out of a black bag a box full of torn wrappers. Lo and behold it was one of my boxes I had thrown away months ago in a dumpster. They had it in their possession. They then asked me if I had been to Harper Ferry West Va. and I said yes. Believe it or not they knew all the road trips I had been on and where. They asked if I had gone to Casinos and I said that I had not. They found it very odd that I did the amount of searching that I had done and that it was actually worth my time. I said that it was worth my time and that I plan on selling some for a down payment on a house. I explained my plans only because they asked what I was doing with the coin. I repeated over and over again that it was just a hobbie and that I am a sailor working to provide for my family and do this to help me save for the future. To show the extent of how much they know...they knew that when tellers asked me what I do with the coin I change stories and don't tell the truth like so many on this website. They knew that sometimes I would dump several thousand at different banks on the same day. All of this drew attention to them.

The Climax of the story and the most shocking part I think is that they followed me to my home. They wanted to come in and see my silver stash. I would not believe it if it did not just happen to me this morning. My wife is in disbelief and my Dad says we do not live in the same country anymore. It has not been the same country for a while now.

So a word of caution If this happened to me it is just a matter of time that someone is knocking on your doors. Be prepared. Another scary thing is that they showed me a law on paper that gives them the right to confiscate property (or in other words silver) if they feel you have carried out an illegal bank transaction which according to the law means several back to back transaction exceding $10,000 or more. I can provide the exact copy of this law and the wording to anyone who wishes to know it.

So what you thought they did not know about you they most certainly do.

...They know what you buy and when and where you buy it.

...They know where you search on the internet.

... They know where you live and work and where your family is.

... They can hear your phone conversations

... They can hear conversations inside your house via your cell phone even if you are not talking on your cell phone or when it is turned off. (So take your battery out if you want privacy at all).

This was a Sad and Scary wake up call of a day for me hope it does not happen to you. In the end they said they were satisfied that I was not a terrorist and would move on but I am still in shock. What a welcome back to the Great U.S of A!! God Bless.

Golden Silver

 

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[gollum]

STOP

STOP​

Sliver,

What is your Rate (Job Title)? I believe the answer to that question may solve any lingering ones.


Everybody else,

You're all whining about how horrible this is, but just think if GS HAD been a (INSERT BAD GUY HERE)(Spy, Serviceman Selling Secrets, Terrorist, Drug Dealer, Money Launderer, Tax Cheat, Ponzi Schemer, Embezzler, etc), and they would have caught him by following his convoluted money trail, we would all be cheering for them. Just think how awesome it would have been if they would have caught Chief Petty Officer John Walker or Boyce and Lee (Falcon & Snowman), Aldrich Ames, Robert Hanssen, in this manner BEFORE the several years they had been selling our secrets to the Soviet Union?

The $10,000 limit is the MANDATORY limit for reporting transactions. If the amount is below that, but seems suspicious, it can be reported as well. This law was originally put into effect to catch drug dealers and their money launderers that were paying cash for Mercedes, Yachts, Planes, and Mansions.

They didn't get a lesson in CRHunting. They were simply following a trail of unusual evidence that a service member was removing and depositing large amounts of money. An Army Sergeant named John Hall spied for the Russians while working in Germany. He received about $300,000 over SIX YEARS. Golden Sliver handled the same amount in two years.

The following is cut-and-pasted from the handbook Federal Investigators use when doing background checks for Sensitive Jobs that require Security Clearances:

One of the potentially disqualifying factors in the Financial Considerations guideline is unexplained affluence as "shown by a lifestyle or standard of living, increase in net worth, or money transfers that cannot be explained by subject's known legal sources of income." Another potentially disqualifying factor in the guideline is "consistent spending beyond one’s means." This usually means too much debt, but it can also show up in the credit report as an indicator of unexplained affluence. If someone has an unusually high level of nonmortgage debt but has no delinquent debt or any other indicator of financial stress, there may be an undisclosed flow of illegal income.

Obviously, there are many legal sources of income beyond one's own salary. Unusual affluence might come from inheritance, gifts from parents, a wealthy spouse, astute investments, a profitable hobby, or a second job. On the other hand, it may also be attributable to drug dealing, embezzlement, fraud, espionage, or other criminal activity. In most cases, the indications of affluence are the same regardless of whether it comes from a legal or illegal source.

It is not sufficient to know only the subject's explanation of the source and amount of these funds. It is easy for spies and other criminals who acquire large amounts of cash through illegal activities to make up plausible cover stories to explain their apparent wealth. In many cases, therefore, the affluence is not "explained" until it is corroborated by one or more independent interview sources or documented by copies of tax returns, canceled checks, or bank or brokerage account statements. The discussion under mitigating conditions cites several examples of cases where the affluence would need to be documented.

If the investigation finds that the subject is either unwilling or unable to document the source of the apparent affluence, the case should be referred for more detailed financial analysis and/or counterintelligence review. Whether this is done by the investigative element or the adjudicator, and the process for doing it, depends upon the circumstances and the capabilities of the agency involved.

I bet that Golden Sliver is (Nuke, ET, Radioman, ASW, CryptoTech---, etc), or works at another job near a sensitive area.

The ONLY thing they were doing was trying to make sure he wasn't doing anything illegal or that could damage national security. After they had done a thorough investigation (which may have been a couple of years but not likely), and found nothing incriminating (other than GS making misleading statements to bank tellers), they took one last shot to make absolutely certain he was just coin roll hunting. They intimidated the hell out of him just to see if he would say or do anything to make them suspicious enough to continue the investigation.

Best-Mike

 

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[mrs.oroblanco]

The answer to that is:

Read my previous post.

I-don't-care-what-reason-that-is-given. He's an American citizen, and not one iota of safety is worth losing constitutional rights.


B

 

[gollum]

Gee Beth,

What constitutional rights did he lose? Do you know that their entire investigation wasn't legal and above board? Do you know the investigators didn't have warrants for tapping his phone? I sincerely doubt they would have shared that information with the person they were investigating.

Did they just push him aside and walk into his home and start tearing the place apart looking for his silver? NO THEY ASKED HIM TO SHOW IT TO THEM.

NOBODY lost ANY constitutional rights here. All that happened was that a servicemember was making some unusual cash transactions RED FLAGS that warranted deeper investigation. When they talked to the bank tellers, they found out that he had been lying to them. RED FLAGS During the course of their investigation they found that he had about ten bank accounts. RED FLAG He traveled all over the place taking out and depositing about $300,000 over two years BIG RED FLAG

Give it a rest Beth. They were just doing their job, and Sliver just got a wake up call, and a little unnerved.

Best-Mike

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Sorry, Mike,

I cannot give it a rest - nor can I agree with you.

I understand where you are coming from - but, I will never agree that it is ok to make someone take you to their home, look at your stuff without a warrant - etc.

Sorry - too many people are superceding protocol in the name of justice. Let's see, what other countries try to scare their citizens...............

We've been down this road before - you and I, I mean. It's how I feel - its not going to change.



B

 

[gollum]

Sorry, Mike,

I cannot give it a rest - nor can I agree with you.

I understand where you are coming from - but, I will never agree that it is ok to make someone take you to their home, look at your stuff without a warrant - etc.

Sorry - too many people are superceding protocol in the name of justice. Let's see, what other countries try to scare their citizens...............

We've been down this road before - you and I, I mean. It's how I feel - its not going to change.



B

Yes we have Beth,

BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT: I thought maybe I missed something, so I went back and reread all of Gold Sliver's Posts. What he said was that they "followed him home and WANTED him to show them his silver" He never said whether he did or didn't show them. This means that they did not MAKE him do anything. He could have very easily told them that he would be glad to show them his silver as soon as they showed him a warrant. Since he was doing nothing wrong, he could have also told them to come on in take a look. You, my dear, are reading things into this story that the poster did not say!

Also:

They did say at the end of the interrogation that they had already assumed before our interview that I was what I appeared to be on the surface but they had follow through to be completely sure and put themselves and the gov. at eaze.

Best-Mike

 

[golden silver]

gollum, I, in fact am none of those jobs you have listed but there is a chance you are right about the job aspect of it. There is a problem with what you say and the 300,000 thousand part seems like a hole lot but when 3-4,000 a week is removed and then deposited not at 10 different banks but 2 or 3. I usually withdrew and deposited in one of two banks. Red flags...perhaps but they had access to my accounts and could very easily tell what I was up to and that the majority of my accounts stayed at a minimum balance. The whole thing is very interesting and unnerving. There are probably several right answers here and no one will agree to all of them..

golden silver

 

[mistergee]

i feel that gollum makes some very good points and backs it up with some interesting info....thanks BTW. alot of what he said is on the same lines of my opinion on what may have happened. sometimes innocent people fall through the cracks through no fault of thier own.
however i also agree with Mrsoroblanco. if he were investigated and found to be innocent of any crime, then i feel he should be informed of all that transpired and at least given a reason as to how and why he came to be investigated. an apology should follow for upseting him and interfering with his life.
i too did not like the idea that they wanted to see his silver, but i have 2 schools of thought here. first, in his haste to prove his innocence he showed them. now lets say they see something that is suspicious but has nothing to do with thier original reason for being there. lets say a large amount of guns and ammo, or that his house is unkempt with several children living there. this could open a new can of worms. his collection and amount of ammo could be deemed an arsenal and all could be confiscated, costing time and money for a lawyer to get them back. DHS could be called because the agents deemed that his children were living in unsanitary conditions (dirty house) and unsafe conditions (weapons and ammo). they could take his kids. also, what if these agents weren't on the up and up and were there to set him up for a robbery? or plant something so they don't look like fools when the suspected money launderer turns out to be a coin collector? in light of some instances involving police and detectives here in Philly, not every officer of the law has your best interest in mind.

now lets say he refused and told them he would gladly show them when they got a warrant. which is what i would probably do, but this also could open a new can of worms. now they think he has something to hide, and they're pissed off that he refused. lets say they have just enough circumstantial evidence to obtain said warrant. now they come back and tear the house apart, scaring his family and drawing the attention of his neighbors. now he has a traumatized family (who now think his hobby has caused all this), a wrecked house, and neighbors who think he is a criminal. (he must be...why else would the Feds search his home?) now he has to damage controll his family, repair his home, and try to save his good name. all because he stood up for his right to unlawfull search and seizure.
i cannot blame the Feds though because red flags were raised and its good to know they are doing they're job. but at what cost to the American citizens rights? when the war on terror is over (which it probably never will be as long as we continue to meddle in other countries affairs) will they remove the Patriot Act? i think not. the advantages for the government are too great.
remember when taxes were only experimental and was only supposed to last a year? (now i know i'm old) once the govenment saw how much money could be had there was no going back. now the same thing that caused this country to fight for its freedom (taxation) has became an overburdening fact of life.
little by little our rights are being slowly eroded away. we cannot let this happen.
now i'll get off the old soap box, sorry if this is alittle long winded.

 

[gollum]

That's all IF IF IF. None of that happened.

They even told him after the interview that their investigation showed that he was coin roll hunting, but theyjust wanted to make absolutely sure.

GS,

Even if you don't have a particularly sensitive job, if you are a Bosun's Mate or Yeoman that works at say ComNavSpecWarGru--, CinCLantFleet, etc, you would be subject to close observation. I held a high security clearance for the entire 14.5 years I was in first the Navy, then the Army. I occasionally got house calls from NIS and then CID. Nothing ever came of it though.

Best-Mike

 

[ivan salis]

once a power is taken or got by a govt they never willingly give them back, peroid --thats why the founding fathers wizely said -- all powers NOT expressly given to the federal govt shall reside with the states and if not expressly given to the states then those rights shall rest with the people * --- limited federal and state govt powers was their goal -- govt to serve the people not the other way round --the founding fathers knew even back then that all govts like to "gather power into the hands of the few" --the "power games" never really change --only the faces of the players.

 

[Rich Hartford]

That's all IF IF IF. None of that happened.

They even told him after the interview that their investigation showed that he was coin roll hunting, but theyjust wanted to make absolutely sure.

GS,

Even if you don't have a particularly sensitive job, if you are a Bosun's Mate or Yeoman that works at say ComNavSpecWarGru--, CinCLantFleet, etc, you would be subject to close observation. I held a high security clearance for the entire 14.5 years I was in first the Navy, then the Army. I occasionally got house calls from NIS and then CID. Nothing ever came of it though.

Best-Mike

"If, If, If. None of that happened." Well enough happened, that should not have happened, and the potential as pointed out by Mistergee could very well have happened, and does happen everyday. Nobody gives a damn until it happens to them.
As Americans, we have to stop living on our knees, and get a little P.Oed.
You had better wake up and learn that sometimes those red flags raised are hiding a swastika.
Way too many people are sailing through life with horse blinders on. Oblivious to the sinister forces that are slowly encircling us.
It's time to put the popcorn away, turn the telescreen off, and start reading. A good start would be the Constitution. You know, the one that many of us have sworn an oath to uphold.
Rich

 

[gollum]

Nice rant there HD Thoreau. HAHAHA

I know all about the sinister forces in our world. I fought against them for the greatest part of my young life.

You stated:

Well enough happened, that should not have happened

Tell me what happened that should not have happened? A servicemember with a sensitive job (or worked in a sensitive area) was making unusually large withdrawals and deposits. This same servicemember lied when asked by the tellers what it was for. Because he had accounts with the banks, they likely knew he was a servicemember. They reported him as they are bound by law to do. So, by your logic, they should have immediately realized he was a coin roll hunter and not done anything? I'll tell you like I told Mrs Oroblanco; Give it a rest. NOBODY lost a single Civil Right here. Remember, Sliver brought this on himself (Sorry Sliv not meaning to say you're a bad guy or anything). I can't say that the investigation would have happened or not if he had told the tellers the truth about his reasons for all the deposits and withdrawals. My guess is that (based on the investigation manual I quoted from) it would have been done exactly the same.

Just remember this:

An Army Sergeant named John Hall spied for the Russians while working in Germany. He received about $300,000 over SIX YEARS. Golden Sliver handled the same amount in two years.

I know Uncle Sam is progressively sticking his nose in where its' not wanted. I say fight against that tooth and nail. Keep what freedoms we have left, and fight to get back those we let slide. I also know that we are at war EVERY SINGLE DAY. Every country on Earth wants what we've got. They will stop at nothing to get it (even our friends). Whether its' Political, Business, Military, Intel, or whatever. We have to safeguard what is ours. I personally believe that anyone caught selling US secrets to other countries should get "head of the line" priviledges for the Hangman's Gallows.

Best-Mike

 

[kasteer]

Hi all. It's been a while since my last post and since I visited here. But after reading all this I felt compelled to post something...

I am very alarmed about this, and I definitely agree that we are being preyed on by our government and our constitution is being undermined. That said, it appears that this was only an investigation and I don't see any violations from what has been posted... however, it's still very scary. After what happened in Texas, I'm glad they're looking at "suspicious" activity, instead of looking the other way. Too bad they had to use Gistapo tactics tho.

Thanks to NObama, I've followed politics this year more closely than ever... I'm sure I'm on a list somewhere now that I've joined the Libertarian Party too. He is doing more to destroy our freedoms than anyone before. So if you're not aware of what's going on I encourage you to do some investigating and reading (Don't believe what you see, or don't see, in the main stream media...). BigGovernment . com has good info if interested (Not trying to hijack the thread here).

 

[Rich Hartford]

Nice rant there HD Thoreau. HAHAHA

I know all about the sinister forces in our world. I fought against them for the greatest part of my young life.

You stated:

Well enough happened, that should not have happened

Tell me what happened that should not have happened? A servicemember with a sensitive job (or worked in a sensitive area) was making unusually large withdrawals and deposits. This same servicemember lied when asked by the tellers what it was for. Because he had accounts with the banks, they likely knew he was a servicemember. They reported him as they are bound by law to do. So, by your logic, they should have immediately realized he was a coin roll hunter and not done anything? I'll tell you like I told Mrs Oroblanco; Give it a rest. NOBODY lost a single Civil Right here. Remember, Sliver brought this on himself (Sorry Sliv not meaning to say you're a bad guy or anything). I can't say that the investigation would have happened or not if he had told the tellers the truth about his reasons for all the deposits and withdrawals. My guess is that (based on the investigation manual I quoted from) it would have been done exactly the same.

Just remember this:

An Army Sergeant named John Hall spied for the Russians while working in Germany. He received about $300,000 over SIX YEARS. Golden Sliver handled the same amount in two years.

I know Uncle Sam is progressively sticking his nose in where its' not wanted. I say fight against that tooth and nail. Keep what freedoms we have left, and fight to get back those we let slide. I also know that we are at war EVERY SINGLE DAY. Every country on Earth wants what we've got. They will stop at nothing to get it (even our friends). Whether its' Political, Business, Military, Intel, or whatever. We have to safeguard what is ours. I personally believe that anyone caught selling US secrets to other countries should get "head of the line" priviledges for the Hangman's Gallows.

Best-Mike

Gollum,
Just out of friendlly curiosity in what war(s) did you combat these sinister forces?
Best,
Rich

 

[gollum]

Started in 1983 with Urgent Fury in Grenada, then in 1984 assisted the Government of El Salvador fighting Marxist FMLN Rebels, was in Honduras in 1985 when Nicaragua invaded. 86-88 worked security for DEA blowing up coke labs in Central and South America. Reupped again and spent Christmas of 1989 in Panama. Went from there to MacDill AFB and was sent to Saudi where I sat there while Desert Shield was transitioning into Desert Storm. I went off active duty and spent two years as a reserve infantry drill sergeant.

That work for ya?

Best-Mike

 

[gollum]

And for your information;

ANYBODY who wants to take away anything that is mine is sinister.

Mike

 

[placerman]

This subject is something that has been on my mind a lot lately.

I must say I have over the past 2 years had occasion to have had relatively cordial discussion with people in the FBI, ATF, SBI, etc. All of these encounters were at my request and no one came to my home or acted argumentative at all.


In 2009 I went through 39,000 dollars worth of half dollars. Not a lot compared to most but it did "PO" one of the managers at my former dump bank and I am relatively sure he filed a SAR on me.

I remember him showing me a computer printout where he could see that I had made 11 deposits of coins in one month and the total amount was around 7500 dollars. He acted like he had "caught me red handed" or something.

I have talked to a young girl in Iran occasionally for several years. Her name is Sara and she is a engineering student in Tehran. For the most part our conversations revolved around cultural differences. Sometimes I would tell her about things being reported here in the news that she was not allowed to know due to their censored media. I was a little surprised that there are a lot of things reported there that in retrospect were true yet would never see the light of day here. I think all in all, both the US and Iranian media are heavily censored.

Anyway she even sent me a Christmas card. Shortly after receiving the card I started getting a lot of packages in the mail that had been opened by US Customs. At the time I collected old photographs and occasionally bought photographs from Britain, Russia, Bulgaria, Poland, Israel, France, Spain, Portugal, etc. Prior to receiving that card from her, I had received over 100 packages and had never had a single one intercepted. Probably half of the packages I got after that were searched over the next 6 months.

I know this doesn't really compare to the aggravation GS has had to endure but all this discussion has dredged up old memories of some similar things Ive seen over the years.

 

[gollum]

I don't know if they can still get away with it, but years ago, the NSA monitored EVERY single communication that came to or left the United States. Every telephone call, every letter, everything, especially if they were going to or coming from countries we weren't particularly friendly with.

One of the greatest articles you will ever find on the NSA was in Penthouse (I swear I bought it for the article) in the mid 1970s. I don't remember exactly, but I think it said they destroy about 2 million documents per day (transcripts and such).

Best-Mike

 

[golden silver]

gollum, once again your wording is getting the better of me. To somehow suggest that I brought this on myself...you have to be off your rocker!! When asked about my hobbie I did lie in the sense I did not come right out and say I was looking for silver. I did however say that I was looking for certain dates and mint marks as well as filling up whitmans albums. Putting it the way you put it, it sounds as though you think I deserved everything I got. I see where you stand and think you are nieve and misguided. Saying that you are also indicating that most everyone on this forum deserves the same treatment at a minimum. Take a long hard look on who is being added to our countries terrorist watch list and being questioned and it may open you eyes a bit more to what is going on of which this is only a symptom.

golden silver

 

[gollum]

Maybe I shouldn't have used the phrase "brought it on yourself". That sounds kind of accusatory. I didn't mean it that way.

What I meant was, that by your actions (innocent though they were), you tripped several red flags that set into motion several things that are both required by law and learned from getting burned.

If you HAD been a bad guy, would you have said that you were getting this money from your Russian Handler or your drug dealing side job? No. You would have said that you were a coin roll hunter, or you played a lot of poker, or you had a hobby that was profitable. It doesn't really matter what you told the Bank Tellers. The ONLY things that mattered were the excessive (excessive to 99% of Americans) banking transactions that alerted the right people to you. I'll bet they did a lot of other things you don't have any idea about (went through your financial history and credit report with a fine tooth comb).

They already knew that the Withdrawals zeroed out the Deposits. That was part of the investigation. That's why they told you that they already believed your CRH Story, but just wanted to make sure. Like it or not, all the Civil Rights that apply to civilians don't always apply to you. Just like ANY person who applies for a Class II Collectors License (license to collect fully automatic and silenced weapons) basically gives up their rights to Privacy and Unwarranted Search. The ammunition must be stored separately from the weapons, and both must be locked up. The ATF has the right at any time to drop in and inspect your weapons and ammunition.

You should get a credit check done. Usually when your credit is run, a record of it shows on your report. I don't know if that is the case with a Federal Investigation.

Best-Mike

 

[Rich Hartford]

Nice rant there HD Thoreau. HAHAHA

I know all about the sinister forces in our world. I fought against them for the greatest part of my young life.

You stated:

Well enough happened, that should not have happened

Tell me what happened that should not have happened? A servicemember with a sensitive job (or worked in a sensitive area) was making unusually large withdrawals and deposits. This same servicemember lied when asked by the tellers what it was for. Because he had accounts with the banks, they likely knew he was a servicemember. They reported him as they are bound by law to do. So, by your logic, they should have immediately realized he was a coin roll hunter and not done anything? I'll tell you like I told Mrs Oroblanco; Give it a rest. NOBODY lost a single Civil Right here. Remember, Sliver brought this on himself (Sorry Sliv not meaning to say you're a bad guy or anything). I can't say that the investigation would have happened or not if he had told the tellers the truth about his reasons for all the deposits and withdrawals. My guess is that (based on the investigation manual I quoted from) it would have been done exactly the same.

Just remember this:

An Army Sergeant named John Hall spied for the Russians while working in Germany. He received about $300,000 over SIX YEARS. Golden Sliver handled the same amount in two years.

I know Uncle Sam is progressively sticking his nose in where its' not wanted. I say fight against that tooth and nail. Keep what freedoms we have left, and fight to get back those we let slide. I also know that we are at war EVERY SINGLE DAY. Every country on Earth wants what we've got. They will stop at nothing to get it (even our friends). Whether its' Political, Business, Military, Intel, or whatever. We have to safeguard what is ours. I personally believe that anyone caught selling US secrets to other countries should get "head of the line" priviledges for the Hangman's Gallows.

Best-Mike

Sherlock Holmes would be more appropriate as I could have closed the case out in 15 minutes without interviewing GS. 20 minutes if you count the time at the donut shop.
It's is ludicrous to believe that drug cartels, the mob, terrorists, launder money with half dollars. I highly doubt that the KGB ever paid American spies with Halves either.
What a joke !
Rich