🥇 BANNER About as close to the fur-trade holy grail as I am gonna get. The Cross of Lorainne.

[mglentz4125]

Now I have had a couple of decent years of detecting but nothing compared to THIS!

I found a decent fur trade site in the middle of the Michigan woods and was happy to have unearthed a couple pairs of scissors, musket ball, fire-steel, etc. The usual good stuff I love to find. I kept on until I got a decent deep high-tone and started whacking away (but being careful) and about passed out when I saw this thing sticking out from the roots.

This is a bucket-lister I never really thought I would ever see. A French silver 'Cross of Lorainne' stamped 'RC' (Robert Cruikshank / Montreal silversmith) which dates this to the late 1700s. I am not sure I can ever top it.

Crazy. Crazy. Crazy. Cheers fellow diggers!!

 

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[gunsil]

How are banner quality finds decided?

When you put your cursor on the "like" word icons appear. The medal, the third one from the left is the banner vote one, and to vote banner you click it. Banner designation is in the eyes of the members, if something is really cool, rare, or valuable or all of those people will vote. I am not sure of how many banner votes it takes to get the banner but sometimes what I think is a banner find doesn't get enough votes and doesn't make the banner. So if you think something deserves banner just give it your vote. Banner finds are not common, way less than one a day for the whole membership, so it has to be a pretty special find.. Oh, and a banner find has to be found by the poster, not a friend or relative and I think a poster must have over fifty posts to make the banner. Maybe one of the mods will add more info.

 

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[hollARDog]

When you put your cursor on the "like" word icons appear. The medal, the third one from the left is the banner vote one, and to vote banner you click it. Banner designation is in the eyes of the members, if something is really cool, rare, or valuable or all of those people will vote. I am not sure of how many banner votes it takes to get the banner but sometimes what I think is a banner find doesn't get enough votes and doesn't make the banner. So if you think something deserves banner just give it your vote. Banner finds are not common, way less than one a day for the whole membership, so it has to be a pretty special find.. Oh, and a banner find has to be found by the poster, not a friend or relative and I think a poster must have over fifty posts to make the banner. Maybe one of the mods will add more info.

Very good info sir and I tip the hat to ya🤠

 

[djackson7348]

Congratulations! Fantastic find.

 

[releventchair]

Tres Bien!!!!


Congrats from Lower Mi..

 

[releventchair]

Score, what do you think the deal is with the scissors?

Always something needing mending or making.
Needles and thimbles and scissors made for great trade goods.

Things to be cut that previously were done with a knife or sharp stone material.
Haircuts. Fingernails. Birch bark. Thinner leathers. Wool and other trade cloth. Sinew.
Boughs for bedding. Cedar roots. Plant fibers and bark for making cordage.
Foods for meal preps. Trimming furs before drying them. (Rough or irregular edges on a pelts borders to make them look better.)
Anyone who has cleaned a quantity of small fish using a pair of scissors will agree they speed up the process.

 

[gunsil]

I don't think those scissors are anywhere near as old as the cross.

 

[releventchair]

I don't think those scissors are anywhere near as old as the cross.

Possibly not.

Not uncommon at all to find more recent site activities atop former native sites.
They were originally chosen for very good reason.
Many of the former century old former trails here in MI. became roads.
And plenty of villages are on former native sites. Some that are not found out why natives didn't use them too!

Particular (larger) river valleys saw lots of traffic and occupation.
River mouths ect. for occupation per season.
With migrations not uncommon between winter and summer.

Our op mglentz is in the Upper Penn.
Migrations for more reasons than seasons there. From the West in Wisconsin (and beyond likely) to Detroit and beyond.
E.-W. and N. to new France.
A study of early Euro contact and who allied with whom will explain the N. vs.S. conflict causing so much Euro trade to swing North.
Though French ambition was quite different than British.
Yet native groups moved other native groups about too. Some likely prior. And multiple after.
The Neutral tribe but one example of the fur trades negative effect causing competition among tribes.

 

[WG2020]

View attachment 2050246 Now I have had a couple of decent years of detecting but nothing compared to THIS!

I found a decent fur trade site in the middle of the Michigan woods and was happy to have unearthed a couple pairs of scissors, musket ball, fire-steel, etc. The usual good stuff I love to find. I kept on until I got a decent deep high-tone and started whacking away (but being careful) and about passed out when I saw this thing sticking out from the roots.

This is a bucket-lister I never really thought I would ever see. A French silver 'Cross of Lorainne' stamped 'RC' (Robert Cruikshank / Montreal silversmith) which dates this to the late 1700s. I am not sure I can ever top it.

Crazy. Crazy. Crazy. Cheers

mglentz,

Congratulations on making the Banner. Definitely well deserved. Good luck with your hunts. Walt

 

[WannaDig3687]

Congratulations on making banner! 👏🏻🎉

 

[mglentz4125]

MGlentz,

Wow. Definitely a hunt to remember. The Cross of Lorraine is simply a once in a lifetime amazing find, congratulations. I definitely agree with Blak Bart and Pepper that this hunt needs to be up on the Banner. Goof luck with your hunts. Wa

Congratulations on making banner! 👏🏻🎉

Thanks all! Now I can retire to a cold and snowy winter and be happy.

 

[mglentz4125]

Possibly not.

Not uncommon at all to find more recent site activities atop former native sites.
They were originally chosen for very good reason.
Many of the former century old former trails here in MI. became roads.
And plenty of villages are on former native sites. Some that are not found out why natives didn't use them too!

Particular (larger) river valleys saw lots of traffic and occupation.
River mouths ect. for occupation per season.
With migrations not uncommon between winter and summer.

Our op mglentz is in the Upper Penn.
Migrations for more reasons than seasons there. From the West in Wisconsin (and beyond likely) to Detroit and beyond.
E.-W. and N. to new France.
A study of early Euro contact and who allied with whom will explain the N. vs.S. conflict causing so much Euro trade to swing North.
Though French ambition was quite different than British.
Yet native groups moved other native groups about too. Some likely prior. And multiple after.
The Neutral tribe but one example of the fur trades negative effect causing competition among tribes.

I have to respectfully disagree about the scissors as I have found a good number of them found in/around old trade sites. They are all the same size and design and no real reason to believe that the French / British did not have available. Some are fairly fancy too. I have found a few dozen thimbles with them with a good majority of those having a single "hole" made (in the thimble) so they could be worn as adornments.

 

[King Canslaw]

View attachment 2050246 Now I have had a couple of decent years of detecting but nothing compared to THIS!

I found a decent fur trade site in the middle of the Michigan woods and was happy to have unearthed a couple pairs of scissors, musket ball, fire-steel, etc. The usual good stuff I love to find. I kept on until I got a decent deep high-tone and started whacking away (but being careful) and about passed out when I saw this thing sticking out from the roots.

This is a bucket-lister I never really thought I would ever see. A French silver 'Cross of Lorainne' stamped 'RC' (Robert Cruikshank / Montreal silversmith) which dates this to the late 1700s. I am not sure I can ever top it.

Crazy. Crazy. Crazy. Cheers fellow diggers!!

View attachment 2050243 View attachment 2050244 View attachment 2050245

Unreally awsum. how do you fin a place were silver and tradin was dun? id lick to look fer some were I live.

 

[releventchair]

I have to respectfully disagree about the scissors as I have found a good number of them found in/around old trade sites. They are all the same size and design and no real reason to believe that the French / British did not have available. Some are fairly fancy too. I have found a few dozen thimbles with them with a good majority of those having a single "hole" made (in the thimble) so they could be worn as adornments.

Respectfully:

French and British did not have available? They had them available to themselves. And as trade goods.
Any technology improvements Europeans displayed were incentive to trying out by some by natives.

Yes , we see thimbles used similar to prior shell use for decorative purpose.
If it was up for trade , waiting ladies needed kept in mind too.
Small notions could equal "change" or adding boot to make up a value.

My suggested uses for scissors by natives are sound. And thier being trade goods ; as well.


Hudson Bay Company discussion.https://kids.britannica.com/students/article/Hudsons-Bay-Company/274969
[The Indigenous people traded pelts from beavers, foxes, bears, and wolves. In exchange, the company gave the Indigenous people weapons, gunpowder, bullets, beads, fishhooks, axes, sewing needles, scissors, cooking pots, and wool blankets.}

 

[KodyB]

View attachment 2050246 Now I have had a couple of decent years of detecting but nothing compared to THIS!

I found a decent fur trade site in the middle of the Michigan woods and was happy to have unearthed a couple pairs of scissors, musket ball, fire-steel, etc. The usual good stuff I love to find. I kept on until I got a decent deep high-tone and started whacking away (but being careful) and about passed out when I saw this thing sticking out from the roots.

This is a bucket-lister I never really thought I would ever see. A French silver 'Cross of Lorainne' stamped 'RC' (Robert Cruikshank / Montreal silversmith) which dates this to the late 1700s. I am not sure I can ever top it.

Crazy. Crazy. Crazy. Cheers fellow diggers!!

View attachment 2050243 View attachment 2050244 View attachment 2050245

That’s absolutely incredible!
I’m sure you wouldn’t ever sell it, but just curious what the value would be??
Any idea

 

[Silvermonkey]

Spectacular find!!!! Congratulations!!!!

 

[oldmxrat]

What an incredible find, congrats!

 

[hollARDog]

That’s absolutely incredible!
I’m sure you wouldn’t ever sell it, but just curious what the value would be??
Any idea

Couple of auction links on 1st page of reading. $2-4k I believe it was🤘

 

[mglentz4125]

Unreally awsum. how do you fin a place were silver and tradin was dun? id lick to look fer some were I live.

Most all are on or immediately near the water (no more than a mile I would say). You may meed to do some local research and talk to some of the old salty guys that have been detecting for decades. They may be able to point you in the right direction.

Try walking along natural land features that follow the water and look for clues. Sometimes it means swinging the coil for hours and finding that one random drop along a trail. Other times its a pile of targets. Good luck and happy hunting!

 

[mglentz4125]

Respectfully:

French and British did not have available? They had them available to themselves. And as trade goods.
Any technology improvements Europeans displayed were incentive to trying out by some by natives.

Yes , we see thimbles used similar to prior shell use for decorative purpose.
If it was up for trade , waiting ladies needed kept in mind too.
Small notions could equal "change" or adding boot to make up a value.

My suggested uses for scissors by natives are sound. And thier being trade goods ; as well.


Hudson Bay Company discussion.https://kids.britannica.com/students/article/Hudsons-Bay-Company/274969
[The Indigenous people traded pelts from beavers, foxes, bears, and wolves. In exchange, the company gave the Indigenous people weapons, gunpowder, bullets, beads, fishhooks, axes, sewing needles, scissors, cooking pots, and wool blankets.

Agree!

 

[mglentz4125]

Couple of auction links on 1st page of reading. $2-4k I believe it was🤘

Sounds about right. I saw one go ob EBay some time back for around $3,800 if memory serves me correctly