all miners gonna have problems

[2cmorau]

Senate Vote SB637 California Suction Dredge Gold Mining
When will we stop this dictatorial take over of ever aspect of our lives

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nm4kIgWA5UI&feature=player_embedded

 

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[arizau]

I'm caught in an era where you can't do what your parents or grandparents talked about doing. It's frustrating! From small business to hobbies and interests without a book of permits and fees, laws that bring you in a complete circle.

I've always wanted to go west and mine, as a hobby. I haven't made it there yet. I hate to see more and more of it taken away or end before I get there!! Anyhow, kind of off topic...

You forgot to mention the new or expanded National Parks and Monuments. They lock up the land forever!!! Not even legal to pick wildflowers.

 

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[Nitric]

You forgot to mention the new or expanded National Parks and Monuments. They lock up the land forever!!! Not even legal to pick wildflowers.

Not to head the thread in this direction, But this is kind of funny..... I had a friend that was picking up worms in a parking lot after a rain at a park. He was stopped by a ranger and told to put them back, the next time there would be a ticket and a fine. So, no picking up worms for fishing at the same park.

Now, how many did the ranger drive over and flatten to drive up and tell him that, and how many did our tires flatten on the way out? Same Idea....as the thread. Makes no sense. The impact of the tires driving on the parking lot were far bigger than him picking up a hand full of worms and putting them into a cup.

Ive also been told of the good days when you could ride for miles and miles in the desert and parks. From what I here that is over or very limited compared to what it was. I don't know that as fact.

I'll add this here instead of posting again....

Trash doesn't show anything and it's origin might have been a hundred miles away. As an example, I have a piece of land that I didn't even put a cigarette butt on the ground. After a few years, from wind, and rain storms there is trash all through it. It washes down the creek in heavy rains, the wind blows roofing and other junk from miles and miles away. Nature put it there. After heavy rains it gets caught on the banks. I'm sure some of it was left by inconsiderate people.

I think Clay is right. The vision of a pile of trash and a miner will stick into someones head over what is being said. And could be used to blame all outdoor hobbies. We don't want to blame one hobby(I know it's not a hobby for some) over another, just defend our rights as citizens. The trash could have blown and washed from the freeway or city miles away.

 

[fowledup]

I'm caught in an era where you can't do what your parents or grandparents talked about doing. It's frustrating! From small business to hobbies and interests without a book of permits and fees, laws that bring you in a complete circle.

I've always wanted to go west and mine, as a hobby. I haven't made it there yet. I hate to see more and more of it taken away or end before I get there!! Anyhow, kind of off topic...

Even more frustrating to be a part of the generation that use to do those things and now realize that not enough was done to preserve those abilities, and now seeing a new generation with an unprecedented level of indifference that you know won't do anything to get it back.

 

[Jeff95531]

When I saw a picture of the pile of trash that someone in East Fork San Gabriel posted trying to get volunteers to help clean up the area....it just made me not want ANYONE in that area anymore....and I'm a Miner and don't want land taken....but, it's all perception....my instant thought was not how good it would be to clean it but, how shameful it was that it was left there in the first place!!! So, many 5 gallon buckets and obvious miners gear!....I agree with Clay you can't un-see certain photo's and so much can be spun!

Like the Idea of a dredge in in some California spot.....Like we need pictures of a mile of river(or less as I've heard proposed)...with 10...15...50!!!!!!!!! Dredges in it...Giving the greenies a picture to use against us for all time.

Don't get me wrong I know we do clean up stuff and it's important and should be noted....and credit given....But,it is all in how it will be perceived and how it will be used..If a bunch of "mining related"...items end up in pictures as "abandoned" it just gives ammo....and if we show pics of the everyday trash all the flatlanders leave....no one will really care.... Unless its some doo good group out of Grass Valley....otherwise no one is gonna care. IMHO

Spot on Clay/Goldwasher. I've been to some pristine remote areas that have been trashed by prospectors, hikers, hunters and fishermen. THAT'S what people see...if they ever get out that is. Show them areas mined and reclaimed and mention all the trash removed as ONE of the many beneficial results of mining.

 

[fowledup]

Not to head the thread in this direction, But this is kind of funny..... I had a friend that was picking up worms in a parking lot after a rain at a park. He was stopped by a ranger and told to put them back, the next time there would be a ticket and a fine. So, no picking up worms for fishing at the same park.

Now, how many did the ranger drive over and flatten to drive up and tell him that, and how many did our tires flatten on the way out? Same Idea....as the thread. Makes no sense. The impact of the tires driving on the parking lot were far bigger than him picking up a hand full of worms and putting them into a cup.

Ive also been told of the good days when you could ride for miles and miles in the desert and parks. From what I here that is over or very limited compared to what it was. I don't know that as fact.

We are the problem not them as long as we tolerate it

 

[DizzyDigger]

Not to head the thread in this direction, But this is kind of funny..... I had a friend that was picking up worms in a parking lot after a rain at a park. He was stopped by a ranger and told to put them back, the next time there would be a ticket and a fine. So, no picking up worms for fishing at the same park.

Glad it wasn't me...not sure I could have contained myself.

Ranger: "HEY! Put those worms back in the ground!"

Me: "YGTBFKM..right? What idiot came up with that law? "

Ranger: " The STATE has determined that those worms are reserved for the fish."

Me: "I agree...trout love 'em, so I'm going to hand feed a few to the trout.."

Ranger: "Put them back, or please place your hands behind your back.." (as he takes out handcuffs)

The LGBTQ would show up and they'd call it a hate crime..I'd get 2 years for assaulting an asexual being.

 

[2cmorau]

American Mining Rights Association

This photo is of Under-Sheriff Jim Gorges of Idaho County standing in our mining camp yesterday. Mr. Gorges supported the miners and we want to thank him and Sheriff Giddings for their strong support. You will want to read on about the last two days, and please share this post with all your contacts, enough is enough.
After we successfully ended the ridiculous fire permit issue where the USFS said we needed to stop our dredges at 1pm due to fire danger because they believed dredges floating 50' out in the middle of a river, surrounded by water were "off road activities" and contained combustion engines, we were supposed to turn them off. We reminded the USFS that all the jet boats in these three National Forests would also need to be shut down based on their ideology. This, couple with the numerous calls from people like County Commissioner Jim Chmelik, Under-Sheriff Jim Gorges, the numerous AMRA members, staff and even a Senator, the USFS relented and we went back to work.................only to be confronted with a new scheme by the USFS the very next day.
This entire episode described below was video taped in its entirety, has been saved on multiple hard drives and will be used in the future.
USFS mineralogist CLINT HUGHES concocted (or was just the delivery boy, we don't know which yet) a scheme and tried to hand deliver "notices of non-compliance" to all suction dredgers on the SF Clearwater yesterday. He claimed we did not have a plan of operations aptly named PoO), because he believed suction dredging causes a "significant disturbance". We've been dealing with this very issue for many years and frankly, CLINT HUGHES's weak and often times, ridiculous and childish arguments on the bank with AMRA was not just laughable, but pathetic. CLINT HUGHES stated we needed to shut down immediately or face "further action" to which we encouraged CLINT HUGHES to initiate. Once we identified what this man was actually trying to say was unconstitutional and the USFS did not have the authority to dictate anything to us in reference to a PoO, we informed him we wanted our local Sheriff there to represent us as we are real property owners and this is harassment. CLINT HUGHES refused (on camera) to call the Sheriff's Department on our behalf several times. Shortly after denying us this, he stated he did not know how to operate a two-way radio (yes folks, we are not making this up). He stated this notice of non-compliance is a civil matter and does not involve the Sheriff. Yes, he actually said that. By the way, CLINT HUGHES also stated he has a masters degree.............
Rather than type out our 45 minutes of conversation, know that we are quite adept at conversing with these tyrannical authority over-steppers and gave him notice that his ignorance of the laws (which we often quoted by number and case name and he couldn't name one) is no excuse for violating the rights of the miners here.
Once the Sheriff's Department showed up, smiling to see all us miners, they informed CLINT HUGHES that the miners would be going back to work dredging their claims and CLINT HUGHES needed to carry on his business elsewhere.
CLINT HUGHES made several comments that he intends to come back with some law enforcement agents to serve these notices, to which I informed him I will NOT accept any notice of non-compliance period and he will have to arrest me, or have me arrested. He even made mention that he was going to bring those really scary folks, the EPA.
There are over 30 miners up here this year, most all of them are dredging and we are united, strong, lawfully mining our claims, are knowledgeable on our fundamental rights, have state dredge permits and have the Sheriff's Department and Doug Giddings supporting the miners.
So.........CLINT HUGHES (whom admitted he reads AMRA's webpage and we told him to like us on Facebook) you do what you feel you need to do. As you know CLINT HUGHES, I drive a big blue and white Toyota FJ Cruiser with AMRA on the side, find that at mile marker 39, I will be dredging with the big blue dredge right below it. Do what you feel you need to do Clint, but know your ignorance of the law is absolutely no excuse for you to exceed your authority violate my rights. .
We'll keep you posted.

 

[The Gilded Lens]

When I saw a picture of the pile of trash that someone in East Fork San Gabriel posted trying to get volunteers to help clean up the area....it just made me not want ANYONE in that area anymore....and I'm a Miner and don't want land taken....but, it's all perception....my instant thought was not how good it would be to clean it but, how shameful it was that it was left there in the first place!!! So, many 5 gallon buckets and obvious miners gear!....I agree with Clay you can't un-see certain photo's and so much can be spun!

Like the Idea of a dredge in in some California spot.....Like we need pictures of a mile of river(or less as I've heard proposed)...with 10...15...50!!!!!!!!! Dredges in it...Giving the greenies a picture to use against us for all time.

Don't get me wrong I know we do clean up stuff and it's important and should be noted....and credit given....But,it is all in how it will be perceived and how it will be used..If a bunch of "mining related"...items end up in pictures as "abandoned" it just gives ammo....and if we show pics of the everyday trash all the flatlanders leave....no one will really care.... Unless its some doo good group out of Grass Valley....otherwise no one is gonna care. IMHO

LOL, if only all the doo doo groups would leave that area. Sigh.

 

[Mad Machinist]

How is suction dredging anymore harmful to the rivers or environment than the rain and water run off that ends up in the water ways. From buildings, parking lots, streets etc... Haven't spent much time in the west, but I hav seen ewhole river bottoms change after a rain. Boulders half the size of a car(ok, ok, maybe not that big, but you get the point) that moved down the river and huge trees roots and all. So I fail to see how a suction dredge and even 50 guys in a mile stretch that is going to have any stronger effect than natural moving bottoms.

Keeping it vague to stay within rules.....This kind of stuff is not just effecting miners. The Brain pollution is effecting everyone and every part of our lives.

Seems like Most people with outdoors interests, or that value their rights are the most conscious about impact.

To give you an idea of what water does to a stream bed: https://www.environment.fhwa.dot.gov/ecosystems/wildlife/fish1.asp

Habitat rocks must be large enough to resist displacement during floods. If the bottom is stable, a rock of 2 ft (0.6 m) diameter weighing about 1000 pounds (454 kg) will resist movement in current velocities up to 10 ft/sec (3 m/sec). A 4-foot (1.2 m) rock will be stable in velocities up to about 13 ft/sec (4 m/sec).

To give an idea of what 13 ft/sec is: 13 ft/sec x 60 seconds = 780. 780 x 60 minutes = 46800. 46800 / 5280 feet per mile = 8.86 mph. Not really that fast of a current.

 

[Nitric]

To give you an idea of what water does to a stream bed: https://www.environment.fhwa.dot.gov/ecosystems/wildlife/fish1.asp

Habitat rocks must be large enough to resist displacement during floods. If the bottom is stable, a rock of 2 ft (0.6 m) diameter weighing about 1000 pounds (454 kg) will resist movement in current velocities up to 10 ft/sec (3 m/sec). A 4-foot (1.2 m) rock will be stable in velocities up to about 13 ft/sec (4 m/sec).

To give an idea of what 13 ft/sec is: 13 ft/sec x 60 seconds = 780. 780 x 60 minutes = 46800. 46800 / 5280 feet per mile = 8.86 mph. Not really that fast of a current.

Thanks for the link! interesting stuff....

 

[Jimmydolittle]

Well said, many pictures have been posted of all the trash that dredgers take out of steams.

How is suction dredging anymore harmful to the rivers or environment than the rain and water run off that ends up in the water ways. From buildings, parking lots, streets etc... Haven't spent much time in the west, but I have seen whole river bottoms change after a rain. Boulders half the size of a car(ok, ok, maybe not that big, but you get the point) that moved down the river and huge trees roots and all. So I fail to see how a suction dredge and even 50 guys in a mile stretch that is going to have any stronger effect than natural moving bottoms.

Keeping it vague to stay within rules.....This kind of stuff is not just effecting miners. The Brain pollution is effecting everyone and every part of our lives.

Seems like Most people with outdoors interests, or that value their rights are the most conscious about impact.

 

[Mad Machinist]

Disease killing young Klamath River salmon
KLAMATH RIVER, California - A disease flourishing in warm drought conditions in the Klamath River is killing young salmon and steelhead trying to migrate out to sea.

And while in some sections of the river disease has been found in nearly all of the fish tested, U.S. Bureau of Reclamation officials also said Wednesday the drought has left little water available to send downstream to improve conditions.

The Klamath Fish Health Assessment Team says conditions in the river are at orange, which means a fish kill is likely and federal and state agencies need to be alerted.

“Orange is probably underplaying the crisis,” said Craig Tucker, natural resources policy advocate for the Karuk Tribe, one of several groups with the assessment team that has biologists monitoring the river.

Scott Foott, project leader for the California-Nevada Fish Health Center in Anderson, said about 90 percent of the fish from Klamath brought to his center for testing have the disease, called ceratonova Shasta.

Foott didn’t know how many fish were dying of the disease in the river, but said mortality rate among fish with the disease is very high. Fish biologists said conditions in the river are bad this year because of the lack of rain and runoff from snowmelt.

Randy Turner, the Klamath Basin Monitoring Program coordinator, said with low flows and warm water, worms that carry the disease have flourished on the streambed.

The problem isn’t as bad in years when the river is cooler and runs higher and faster in the winter and spring because the current kicks up the gravel and cobble on the streambed, disrupting the worms’ life cycle, he said.

The worst section of the Klamath River is from the Shasta River west of Interstate 5 to more than 80 miles downstream to the Salmon River, Turner said.

Brian Person, acting area manager of the bureau’s Yreka office, said Wednesday that after consulting with other agencies, they could not send more water downstream to improve conditions for the fish.

“We decided that is not the most optimal use of a very short water supply at this point,” Person said.

The bureau, as well as other federal and state wildlife agencies, would continue to monitor the fish in the river and could at some point decide to send more water downstream if conditions change, Person said.

If the readiness level on the river goes from orange to red — which means a fish kill is occurring — there is probably little officials can do because so little water is available upstream in the river, Tucker said.

Even if more water was sent downstream there probably isn’t enough available to benefit the young salmon, Tucker said. And if they use extra water in the spring to help the young salmon swimming out to sea, there might not be enough water in the fall to help the salmon returning from the ocean to spawn.

During the past few years bureau officials have had to release more water from the Trinity River to prevent a different disease from killing spawning salmon in the Klamath. That disease, called “ich,” has affected areas below where the Trinity flows into the Klamath River.

The young fish dying from the ceratonova Shasta in the Klamath River are upstream of its confluence with the Trinity River, Turner said.

It is likely a large percentage of this year’s salmon hatch will not make it out to sea, which means there will be fewer adult salmon returning back upstream to spawn in three years, Tucker said.

“I think we’re definitely going to take a hit when the adults return,” he said.
____________________________________________________________

In spite of California Dredgers receiving the blame and ultimately the illegal penalties as imposed by authorities...........Salmon are dying again in the Klamath River.

Warm water has returned, just as predicted by dredgers, but there's nobody left to harass, arrest nor make an example of. There seems to be a point whereby even the nuttiest anti-dredging scientist or indian culture can't point a finger at another person other than themselves.

What has been the pursuit of the dredging moratorium the past several years? Salmon survival.

They aren't surviving. It's today only spring. How blatantly wrong will the indian culture prove itself to be?

The People of California can no longer stupidly support the fantasies and falacies of the Karuk leaders. The California state agencies such as CDFW are operating outside the Federal and State constitutions.

We're not allowed to vote on CDFW policies nor Karuk dreams. But we can conduct peaceful civil-disobedience. WE can openly and publicly trounce the realities of the anti-dredging factions. Judge Ochoa wants energy, he needs to feel the damage dredgers have endured. He knows the Siskiyou County jail won't harm us. He knows we've been victimized. He's listening for our outrage to be sparked.

Ainn't karma a b!tch?