Am I Barkinh Up The Wrong Tree?

[Salura]

I've read about how the Indians marked their trails with "trail trees" and blaze markings (like rocks stacked in a formation, pattern, etc) and carvings into trees (aka "arborgraphs") and I've seen some photos, but I've never seen any in person.

My research tells me there was a well known and well used trail in the site i have access to. I've done some preliminary recon, and took some pictures. I don't know what I'm looking at, so I'm not getting my hopes up, but look at these and tell me if these are intentional markings or natural occurances. I don't want to be barking up the wrong tree.

The first two pics are a tree located on what should be the trail. The circumference of the tree is only 49.5" so by my guestimation, the oldest it could be isn't very old (American elm?), like 1950?

The last pic is the SW side of a different tree a few paces SE of the other tree. It reminds me of a fox, or a wolf. The more I stare at it the more things come to my imagination (like when you stare at clouds).

What do you think?

 

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[chase2]

In most cases they are a myth. The tree stands are just not old enough to support any evidence of this. How ever there are actual areas that have historic signs of Indian occupation, And they are trees with this evidence.

 

[Salura]

Quite right Chase2, from what I see on the old aerial photographs and researched, the site was a farm for a period. So likely theses trees are pretty young (post 1937). However, not all the trees had been cleared.

 

[chase2]

Quite right Chase2, from what I see on the old aerial photographs and researched, the site was a farm for a period. So likely theses trees are pretty young (post 1937). However, not all the trees had been cleared.

Anything is possible. I have a few examples where there are such trees.

 

[blueracer]

I dont think thats american elm, I am familiar with that type of florida habitat, It looks like an oak. maybe live, turkey, laurel oak, or scrub oak.If it is one of those id say it is between 30-75 years old depending on how much light it got when it was young. As for the white marking on the trunk here is a picture of a white oak that has been rubbed on by a bear, THe other one is what I think you're looking at, its called smooth patch disease and it effects oaks and is caused by a fungus it could also be a natural marking to the tree, but I dont think it was made by any human.

 

[chase2]

I dont think thats american elm, I am familiar with that type of florida habitat, It looks like an oak. maybe live, turkey, laurel oak, or scrub oak.If it is one of those id say it is between 30-75 years old depending on how much light it got when it was young. As for the white marking on the trunk here is a picture of a white oak that has been rubbed on by a bear, THe other one is what I think you're looking at, its called smooth patch disease and it effects oaks and is caused by a fungus View attachment 883870it could also be a natural marking to the tree, but I dont think it was made by any human. View attachment 883869

I think you need to cover up those tree limb stubs in that last pic.

 

[blueracer]

hahahah i didnt even notice that. also, not that it is at all pertinent to your original post, and only to feed my own obsession with identifying all flora and fauna I see..based on the sapling in the top pic that tree is a laurel oak which is common in that habitat, they grow rapidly and can reach that size in 50 years.

 

[Salura]

I'm not familiar with Florida trees, so your help in identifying it is appreciated. I'm a jersey girl who joined the military after college and moved around the US for 8 years until settling down for a decade in Wyoming (not many trees in my area, all that are there were brought in and planted by settlers). I've only been in Florida 4 years.

Here's a picture of the leaves of that leaning tree. The notebook is a 3x5 pocket notepad, if that helps to determine scale.

I work for UF IFAS so I could ask my colleagues, but I'm embarrassed by how little I know, so I'm trying to figure these things out without asking the scientists and faculty questions that a freshman should be able to figure out. 😉

 

[blueracer]

no problem. Ill tell you what I can. There are two species of laurel oaks in FL. THey look similar, but have several differences including habitat. THe swamp laurel grows in wet areas obviously, and the sand laurel grows in sandy dry areas. I assumed the sapling was of the parent tree in your first photo, and the leaves you are holding are appear to be that of a sand laurel (Quercus hemisphaerica) and not a swamp laurel (Quercus laurifolia)

 

[tomclark]

That looks like old woodpecker damage or maybe/also wood boring insect damage.
You are in one of the best spots on Earth for world class artifacts and material. BOOM!!!!!

kinda looks like loblolly bay or swamp bay.... both grow in area like that and have deep furrowed bark.

LOL, right on, BlueRacer!~ We were posting at the same time.
We should be out harvesting Ilex vomitoria and maybe some saw palmetto berries (yuck)!

 

[tomclark]

Gotta dig test pits all the way to the hardpan and then another few inches to find the goodies, then cover holes back up. Might be good to run a metal detector over the area if it was on/near an old trail plus the history of that area.

 

[GatorBoy]

Great location!
Nice info guys!
Here...you can have these...YUCK!
I could eat swamp cabbage all day.
(Palmetto hearts)

 

[Salura]

I plan to run my detector over the area. I've been clearing out the palms and sticker bushes so I can walk around on the land.

It is on an old trail.

 

[Salura]

The area was a farm for a time. How do I know when I've "hit hard pan?"

I'm going to do some searching today. I'll post what I find. Wish me luck!

 

[GatorBoy]

GOOD LUCK
The material will get real dense and "hard" .. it's a noticeable change..color too.

 

[Salura]

Hence the name, lol. I ask because I dug a 4 ft hole, the first six inches were rich and dark, full of roots. The next 3.5 ft was sand...sand...and more sand til water.

 

[Salura]

I searched for a couple hours today, only found two zincolns, a modern key, and two shotgun caps (I don't know the proper term).

I still have lots more area to clear and search, but I was really hoping to find something older today.

 

[GatorBoy]

Stick with it.
Folks that do a lot of digging..I'm not one... Really know what to look for When it comes to a good area to break ground.
Even then... It's usually necessary To dig many test holes in an area.
You may be able to narrow that down by hunting the water's edge For signs like flakes of chert or pottery...then find high ground nearby.
I bet you wind up finding an area just by clearing.
Good luck.

 

[Salura]

Thanks gator boy, I will keep clearing and digging. When I can't find anything more, I'll hopefully get my new detector.

This project of clearing my land has been great. I'm learning about history, archaeology, and identifying trees.

Since April, I've lost 36 pounds. Weight I've unsuccessfully been trying to lose for 6 years. I have at least 65 to go. Working in the yard had been great for my depression too. (I'm a thyroid cancer patient,keeping the cancer at bay by keeping my thyroid hormone levels low. Low thyroid=lower energy. Docs finally hit on a med cocktail of antidepressants, stimulants and synthroid where I feel like myself again. Now to get back into shape.

So even though I'm not finding "treasures" in the ground, I've got other "treasure." Everything happens for a reason. So when I'm ready, I'm sure I'll start finding the historic stuff.

Thanks for the encouragement!

 

[GatorBoy]

Now that's good stuff right there soldier. :-)
Your in prime territory.. with your determination you'll do real good.
Keep us informed ..and Mabey try to snap some photos of spots of interest.. lay of the land..ect.. Mabey we can spot some clues to a potential high probability area