Another piece to the puzzle? Never before seen Peralta Stone.

[rampuffpuff]

Wha? What is this guy smokin? So the Spanish claimed thry owned Mexico. and south america? And I call bs on you saying you viewed. chlsbrns map. You never looked at it or you would have noticed it was an aerial view of a reservoir in Warrington Pa.

C'mon.... jopa knows this!

 

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[chlsbrns]

Thanks for the history lesson but I was referring to the time period of the so called lost mine not 50 years earlier.

Do you really think a matchbox sample can be compared to anything?

Below is from the Arizona Daily Gazette. November 27, 1894. Can you tell me what part of the Bulldog mine was sampled for comparison? The main shaft at 105 feet? 50 feet? 10 feet? One of the numerous shafts? What year was the comparison sample taken?

The Bulldog mine of today is controlled
by Gus Hirschfield and N. Ellis, of Phoenix, who
have upon it a bond of $50,000, taken from C. R.
Hakes and the Merrill brothers, of Mesa. It
comprises two full-sized claims, covering parallel
ledges.
The main shaft is now down 105 feet, two
levels, connected by winzes, being run about'
,forty feet to either side. To connect with the
western drifts an air shaft, 100 feet in depth,
is now being sunk. Development workings of
varying depth have been driven at many different
points on the Bulldog and its sister claim, the
Highlander, and everywhere the rock shows up in
a manner delighting the miner's heart. The ore
body is a curious one. Traced between its "diorite
contact, it appears to be over 100 feet
wide, almost,every foot of which shows a color
of gold in the horn Spoon. Within the ledge
matter, however, are "stringers" two and three
feet in width, from which marvellous assays are
made. One lot of a few tons taken from a development
winze is worth fully $5,000 to the
ton. "This dump here," said Superintendent
Thorndyke, "comprises about 150 tons, all taken'
out of this shaft and drifts. I've assayed all
around it and I can't find a bit'of it that
gives less than $100 to the ton." Taking a hammer,
he chipped off a little grayish quartz from

continued on next page.

 

[chlsbrns]

I'm not up on this lost mine fable but this matchbox things has me confused. Someone has an ore sample from a lost mine? Where did they get it?

 

[chlsbrns]

Which of the Waltz claims did the matchbox sample come from?

THE MINING CLAIMS OF JACOB WALTZ
The following four pages contain the three
known mining claims of Jacob Waltz which he
filed with the Recorder. at: Prescott. The
first two claims deal with the Gross Load.
The next two claims are the Big Rebel and
the General Grant. The Gross Load and the
Big Rebel claims were jointly filed on by
Jacob Waltz and several members in the miningventure.
Waltz filed alone when he recorded
the General Grant claim. All three
of these claims are located in the country
south of Prescott and were recorded between
1863 to 1865. These copies were made from
the original recorder's book which are still
in existence today and can be found at the
Yavapai County Court House or the Shar10t
Hall museum in Prescott. Extensive re~
search has shown that Waltz never filed any
claims in Pinal County or Maricopa County.
These three claims are the only ones to
date that have been found in Arizona.

THE GROSS LOAD; September 21, l863,from page 263 of the journal of the
Pioneer and Walker districts Book A, currently located
at the Yav~jliiLCounty Court House, Prescott, Arizona.

 

[alberticus59]

I think you guys are missing the point and should start a new thread where you can argue all the details of the lost dutchmans mine. When I started this thread I wanted to give it a title that would draw the reader in. I believe I succeeded in this. Now if you ask me if I believe that this stone bears information relating to a lost peralta mine or a mine that jacob waltz was bringing ore from, I would say I dont know for sure. It could be possible. This stone shows all the signs of having laid there in the open , exposed to every rain, snow and blistering desert heat. The only reason I mentioned the Peralta Sones was because of their notoriety to draw the readers interest. Let us debate the lost dutchman somewhere else.

 

[chlsbrns]

Oh well a few minutes worth of research wasn't enough! It appears that my "GUESS" that the Bulldog was the "Lost Mine" was off by about 5 miles.

Arizona Daily Gazette

December 4, 1895

UNEARTHED A MINE

C. M. Thorndyke makes an interesting discovery.
Ancient diggings to which runs a subtle
circutious tunnel.
Some time in September last a Mexican,
who is a well known prospector, was at Goldfield
delving for riches. He happened to go
five miles east of the Bull Dog mine, where
he found signs of an old Spanish mine. He
returned to this city and told of the sunken
place beneath some brush. He thought queer
there was no dump, but calculated, time had
probably effaced such land mark. The cut
seemed filled with large boulders, too heavy
for a man to lift. The matter was discussed
that evening by several mining men and others
interested.
Last week C. M. Thornkyke took the
Mexican and went to the place. They found
the sunken spot as described, and the Mexican
went back to camp, a mile or so away,
at a spring to get the tools. They went to
work and opened a cut 16 feet long and 12
feet deep under an overhanging reef. By
breaking the stones finally soft dirt was
reached and they found the dump had been
shoveled back into the pit. In the bottom
was a 3 foot ledge of some mineral substance,
evidently of an ovice nature. They tried to
horn it but found no signs of gold.
Glancing up the walls it showed that at
the 'surface the lead was no more than a half
inch thick. After sounding the walls on all
sides and the bottom as well, virgin dirt
was encountered and the boys were puzzled.
Finally, on the hanging wall side, loose
dirt and boulders were encountered, and in
a few minutes a tunnel was opened. It ran"""
a short distance and turned at right angles,
comming out to the surface in a big fourfoot
crevice in a big rock.
How this was made is not known, but
attrition will hardly prove a tenable theory.
It is possible there was only a rich pocket
and every inch of pay-rock was carried away,
or possible some precious metal may yet
develop when a fire test is made.
It may be gold or possibly cinnabar.
Mr. Thorndyke thinks the working at least

twenty-five years old, may be fifty. It is an
old buried Spanish mine, one that was carefully
covered by the Indians and the ground around
strewn with snakes, reptiles and poisonous
insects.
A thorough test of the rock may yet tell
as samples of everything in sight were taken,
and they will today be tested.

 

[chlsbrns]

I think you guys are missing the point and should start a new thread where you can argue all the details of the lost dutchmans mine. When I started this thread I wanted to give it a title that would draw the reader in. I believe I succeeded in this. Now if you ask me if I believe that this stone bears information relating to a lost peralta mine or a mine that jacob waltz was bringing ore from, I would say I dont know for sure. It could be possible. This stone shows all the signs of having laid there in the open , exposed to every rain, snow and blistering desert heat. The only reason I mentioned the Peralta Sones was because of their notoriety to draw the readers interest. Let us debate the lost dutchman somewhere else.

You know that your stone is not a Peralta Stone? You just wanted to "draw the reader in" The only reason you mentioned the Peralta Stones was because of their notoriety to draw the readers interest.

What are you writing a book or doing a thesis? Just telling stories?

Your buddy found a stone and you want to do what? (Other than draw in readers) Make them believe it has something to do with yet another treasure? A different treasure? It must as your stone isn't composed of the same type of stone as the Peralta stones.

Do I dare mention that there is a stone ruins from a stone house? It consists of the ruins of a stone
house.


Arizona Daily Gazette

August 16, 1893

PREHISTORIC RELICS

A Mammoth Stone House in the Superstitions.

While much has been written and said about
the prehistoric ruins of southern Arizona,
there is one relic which has been heretofore
apparently unnoticed. ect, ect, ect.

I'm not interested in stone houses! Or stones that are deceptively thrown out to the public implying treasure.

AMAZING!

 

[alberticus59]

hopefully these guys will take their argument somewhere else, because i have more to tell you that is of utmost importance.
I have studied this rockand there is much that still needs to be brought forth here.
A dotted line runs from a point on the rock where it hold the image of the mountains skyline. The skyline , visible from the original place the marker was. The only thing left is to decipher the coded message to get the distances from the start to the first turn then to the next turn and so on. The dotted line was used by the spanish to denote a trail . The trail makes what looks like a a hook where one right turn then another and another would bring the follower of it to something. I assume it to be the entrance to the mine. But we may not get a chance to ever find this lost treasure for a large mining company proposes to bury this land under millions of tons of tailings. Mine waste. I have stood on the spot where the stone was laid by the spanish marking the trail to the mine. I saw from there the skyline pictured on that stone. I have viewed the area that the trail would lead the follower through . So beautiful but unimaginably rugged. I can only describe it one way" Badlands" .Sadly this area is in the same area that will be used as a waste dump for tailings. The destruction to the desert enviroment will be irreversible and complete. I am unable to continue at this time due to family matters. I will post more on this tomorrow.

 

[chlsbrns]

hopefully these guys will take their argument somewhere else, because i have more to tell you that is of utmost importance.
I have studied this rockand there is much that still needs to be brought forth here.
A dotted line runs from a point on the rock where it hold the image of the mountains skyline. The skyline , visible from the original place the marker was. The only thing left is to decipher the coded message to get the distances from the start to the first turn then to the next turn and so on. The dotted line was used by the spanish to denote a trail . The trail makes what looks like a a hook where one right turn then another and another would bring the follower of it to something. I assume it to be the entrance to the mine. But we may not get a chance to ever find this lost treasure for a large mining company proposes to bury this land under millions of tons of tailings. Mine waste. I have stood on the spot where the stone was laid by the spanish marking the trail to the mine. I saw from there the skyline pictured on that stone. I have viewed the area that the trail would lead the follower through . So beautiful but unimaginably rugged. I can only describe it one way" Badlands" .Sadly this area is in the same area that will be used as a waste dump for tailings. The destruction to the desert enviroment will be irreversible and complete. I am unable to continue at this time due to family matters. I will post more on this tomorrow.

Now that I look at your stone it's obvious in the first 2 pics that someone took an axe or hammer to it as it is freshly broken. Some of the broken chips are visible on the ground in the first pic.

You imply that the stone is related to the dutchmans mine and a possible connection to the peralta stones, you end your original post with "The latest chapter in the legend of the lost dutchman" and then chastise people for discussing the dutchmans mine?

You state: "I have stood on the spot where the stone was laid by the spanish marking the trail to the mine" You make such statements as if they are proven fact? What mine are you talking about if it isn't the lost dutchmans mine?

A suggestion: Before anyone "gets drawn in" or wastes their time... I'm wondering if Albert will even produce a pic of "Ollie" with the stone.

 

[chlsbrns]

Albert, no interest in the August 16, 1893 article in the Arizona Daily Gazette about the stone house?

Should we also not discuss anything that doesn't involve a treasure even if it has to do with stones?

 

[chlsbrns]

Albert, can you give coordinates to where the stone was found? I want to see if it is close to the stone house.

 

[Oroblanco]

Rampuffpuff wrote

Wha? What is this guy smokin? So the Spanish claimed thry owned Mexico. and south america?

Yes.

Rampuffpuff also wrote

And I call bs on you saying you viewed. chlsbrns map. You never looked at it or you would have noticed it was an aerial view of a reservoir in Warrington Pa.

Perhaps you are the one smoking something - it opened directly on the Bulldog mine with an X on it when I clicked on it. Shame on you for calling BS when you were not here looking at my computer screen to see what opened or if I clicked or not.

Chlsbrns wrote

Do you really think a matchbox sample can be compared to anything?

Yes.

Chlsbrns also wrote

I'm not up on this lost mine fable but this matchbox things has me confused. Someone has an ore sample from a lost mine? Where did they get it?

Maybe you should read up on it then, before leaping to conclusions?

Chlsbrns also wrote

Which of the Waltz claims did the matchbox sample come from?

None of those you listed.

Chlsbrns also wrote

Should we also not discuss anything that doesn't involve a treasure even if it has to do with stones?

Maybe not with you if it makes you so angry if someone should disagree with you.

Good luck and good hunting to you all, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[rampuffpuff]

I think it is obvious the way the OP ignores the logical points what is going on here. He asks for input, then didmisses any ideas not in line with a preconceived notion.

The OP CLEARLY makes a claim, and denies making the claim, except for what was necessary to draw in readers, then makes the same claim all over again.

It cannot be both. Has the stone been tested by any manuak or chemical analysis?

Lets see if OP answers this question and posts the results of the test as it was received.

Thanks.

 

[rampuffpuff]

hopefully these guys will take their argument somewhere else, because i have more to tell you that is of utmost importance.
I have studied this rockand there is much that still needs to be brought forth here.
A dotted line runs from a point on the rock where it hold the image of the mountains skyline. The skyline , visible from the original place the marker was. The only thing left is to decipher the coded message to get the distances from the start to the first turn then to the next turn and so on. The dotted line was used by the spanish to denote a trail . The trail makes what looks like a a hook where one right turn then another and another would bring the follower of it to something. I assume it to be the entrance to the mine. But we may not get a chance to ever find this lost treasure for a large mining company proposes to bury this land under millions of tons of tailings. Mine waste. I have stood on the spot where the stone was laid by the spanish marking the trail to the mine. I saw from there the skyline pictured on that stone. I have viewed the area that the trail would lead the follower through . So beautiful but unimaginably rugged. I can only describe it one way" Badlands" .Sadly this area is in the same area that will be used as a waste dump for tailings. The destruction to the desert enviroment will be irreversible and complete. I am unable to continue at this time due to family matters. I will post more on this tomorrow.

Good move! Establish urgency and the need for haste. Does oro do all the talking for you Alb? The questions asked are serious questions by other treasure seekers, and are not an attack on you. Please answer them. To refresh your memory, "why are the individual details you speak of on the stone showing different states of wear?".

And a new question, are the newly discovered dotted lines carved in the stone that deeply where erosion had not worn them away?. Perhaps a new pic showing these new details is in order.

 

[rampuffpuff]

Wait a second!!!

It was just admitted that this stone was taken off someone else's property!!!!

That's illegal!


No wonder the stone was not left there.

It doesn't take much reasoning to deduce that the tailings were going to be left on the miner's property, and considering the tonnage you are talking about, it probably encompasses the area you are directing others/ the public to as well.

Is this area the same area as in the pic where the squatters have pitched their tents?

I sense some other agenda and outside influence here.

As a potential principle in this matter, I am sure Alb that you have the answers we seek.

Did Ollie take the stone from someone else's property without consent?
Your discussion to elicit urgency says "yes".

Care to elaborate without Oro answering the questions?

 

[rampuffpuff]

And chlsbrns....

The stone also looks to have had the cross hatches of the "A" and "H" added very recently. Without those, the stonw would clearly have someone's initials with III after them. Possibly a grave marker or benchmark or cornerstone for property owned by someone else.

This is starting to smell fishy.... real fishy!

 

[chlsbrns]

And chlsbrns....

The stone also looks to have had the cross hatches of the "A" and "H" added very recently. Without those, the stonw would clearly have someone's initials with III after them. Possibly a grave marker or benchmark or cornerstone for property owned by someone else.

This is starting to smell fishy.... real fishy!

Yes it does look like a grave marker. I found similar markers in an Arizona graveyard & the grave of JACOB WALTZ.

The stone ruins in the Superstition Mtns are pretty interesting!

 

[kiddfinder]

Hello. Did I miss the show? I was surprised to see this post in the "treasure legends" section considering it is now being said the stone has nothing to do with an ongoing detailed topic like "Petalta stone".

Stiil kinda confused because of the title and claim the title makes. Wazzup?

Got a couple of notes from others about it.
IMHO all I see so far follows an unsavory
outline of deception and sensationalism, with quite a few alterior motives tucked in there too.

Can anybody add some clarity to this train wreck?

 

[kiddfinder]

Yes it does look like a grave marker. I found similar markers in an Arizona graveyard & the grave of JACOB WALTZ.

The stone ruins in the Superstition Mtns are pretty interesting!

After looking at the stone again, it looks broken off recently, and if a grave marker was one belinging to a third generation male. Was there any evidence or reports of grave robbing in the area Mr. WALTZ was interred?

 

[kiddfinder]

Where did this "matchbox" thing come from?