Another piece to the puzzle? Never before seen Peralta Stone.

[alberticus59]

Somehiker, Thanks again. Your advice and information have been greatly appreciated. Alb

 

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[geezerdb]

I'd just lay low for a while, do my research and see what develops. Ollie found it, it's up to you as his helper, and him to see what it might lead to. As for sharing it with 'the authorities' whoever they may be, there is plenty of time to decide upon that later on. Mabe the stone is actually some kind of 'map' or part of a 'map' to be used with other markers to a mine or mineral deposit. See where it leads to, and emjoy the chase. At this point in time, it does not appear you have anything that you are compelled to share with anyone else. When you discover the real treasure, if there is one, then you and Ollie can decide to share with the state or the feds if you feel so inclined.

 

[alberticus59]

geezerdb, Thanks for your advice. I really needed some reaffirmation to get me over this latest development. I am thinking that maybe I jumped the gun by posting this find for all to see. It seemed like the right thing to do at the time but now I don't know. Oh well, my intentions were good anyway. I guess, like you said, we will just have to see where it leads and enjoy the chase. Thanks again. You have lifted my spirit and brought me hope. Alb

 

[Joshr29]

Lmao

 

[JSpinner]

Hello, there. Been reading your posts. I used to live out that way, many years ago. My spouse then, was a Pima. Heard all kinds of stories from all kinds of people. I lived in Gilbert when it still had wooden sidewalks downtown. (Which was only about a block or two long. Had a Circle K and 3 bars... not much else. I have relatives in Miami, Florence and roots in Globe. One of my great grandfathers up there was a judge. Anyway, I find your stories interesting. I have no desire to go back there, but I wish you all luck. Prosper in 2013 -JSpinner

 

[Rawhide]

Got this shot while I was out taking pictures of other stuff near the cave.

View attachment 759245

Can't say what he's lookin at, though.

Regards:SH.

Some took me awhile to figure out what all the large heads were looking up. I suggest you climb up there and see what it looks like at eye level......hint hint.

As for the stone, I have seen groups of script and signs like that before. My guess is its a owners mark. Or a map designation, buggers were good plotting lines.

 

[usernotfound]

Got this shot while I was out taking pictures of other stuff near the cave.

View attachment 759245

Can't say what he's lookin at, though.

Regards:SH.

There use to be a large stone that laid flat on the U shape opening behind the head. It was there to complete the Eye of the larger profile which is laying... it has since been removed, obviously.

 

[Rawhide]

I see a V and a hooked x, way to go

 

[lgadbois]

The pictures of the stone may be upside down. It is an assumption that the symbol on the right side is an "A", and the other letters are backwards. It is possible that the symbol is a "V" shape that represents a narrow canyon. The "D" and "B" may not be letters. They could be symbols meaning one hill, two hills. The "H" could be a double box. It is important to keep an open mind when interpreting symbols. The shape of the stone is interesting. Is it a tool like a pestle? Is the weaker drawing a map or a decoration?

 

[alberticus59]

Igadbois, Thanks for the input. Your observations are intriguing and it is possible that the letters are more like symbols. We have tried many different combinations of possible interpretations for the markings but it all comes down to this. The loss of detail due to the length of time it was exposed to the elements, (rain, snow, heat, cold, wind, excetra), has made it difficult to reliably determine what features are manmade and which are natural features of the erosion of the rock. Also, the fact that the creator of this trail marker was no doubt using coded symbols and markings to confuse any but those that were given the codes meanings. Still it is possible I believe that the correct deciphering of it is possible but only through the use of tools that are beyond what we have available to us. So as unfortunate as it is, for the time being our course of action has stalled pending some new information or discovery that may shed a new light on this very interesting artifact/relic.

 

[Oroblanco]

Greetings Alberticus; Thank you for sharing the info and photos of that most interesting stone! I do not wish to be a bucket of cold water to any theories currently in the ovens around here, and do not wish to pretend to be 'the expert' on such things but I would not connect this stone with the Peralta stones at all.

In fact, the side with what appear to be modern English letters, can be ancient Norse runes. Another side looks as if it may well be Phoenician or Punic, or Hebrew (all three are fairly simliar). This would not necessarily mean the stone is not a claim marker of sorts, for both of those ancient peoples made land claims, and the Phoenicians in particular were quite expert prospectors.

I am not saying that the stone must be Norse or Phoenician, however I would very much like to have a chance to examine it personally. If there is any way I could meet you, perhaps in Globe around the time of the annual Dutch-hunters rendezvous, I would very much appreciate the chance to examine it. Not trying to brag but I have studied some ancient inscriptions and have written some on the topic, published some years ago, (a theory on ancient explorers coming to the Americas hundreds to thousands of years ago) and may be able to shed some light on the stone if it is indeed what it appears that it may be. If it is ancient, it would be a very important find in my opinion. Thank you in any case, and I wish you a most pleasant evening.
your friend,
Roy A. Decker ~ Oroblanco

<here is the pub mentioned above, if you are curious>
Underground!: The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing ... - Preston Peet - Google Books

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Alberticus, coffee?? The cotton picking sheep lovin ORO makes excellent coffee , and 'does' know what he is talking about. meet him.

Don Jose de La Mancha ( Till Eulenspiegle )

 

[Oroblanco]

Thank you for the endorsement my friend Don Jose', I would very much like to have a look at that stone "in hand"; I am not an expert in Norse runes, and that was a bit of speculation, on checking my sources it does not seem to be runes but could be early Greek, which was sometimes written right to left as you know, before they finally settled on writing the way we do now, left to right.

I would like to get a rubbing of the stone, with tracing paper; sometimes faint marks will show that way, and look at it with a jewelers loupe (magnifier) to see if there are visible tool marks. The stone may be something quite modern, or it may be something quite ancient. As the finder knows the exact location of where he found it, it could be a clue to finding something very valuable!

Thank you in any case, good lukc and good hunting to you all, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[alberticus59]

Hello to Oroblanco, Tropical Tramp, Somehiker, and everyone else that has followed this thread and offered advice or made comments. I had let myself drift away from the forum here and may have missed out on opportunity . Please accept my apology for not responding in a more timely fashion.
Mr. Oroblanco, if you are still interested in viewing this artifact/relic we are still ready to meet with you so that you may have your hands on examination of the stone. We feel that this story is important enough that it needs to be told. First we need to find out exactly what that story is. With your help and the help of others in this forum the story that comes out could be one we will be proud to have been a part of. Please contact me so we may begin making plans for this new adventure.
Once again I wish to thank all that have been following this thread and especially those that have given imput and advice; namely, Oroblanco, Tropical Tramp, Somehiker. geezerdb, JSpinner, H-2 Charlie, Springfield, cactus jumper, Gold Maven, markmar, recon digger. I hope to hear from you soon. ---- Alb

 

[rampuffpuff]

Hello to Oroblanco, Tropical Tramp, Somehiker, and everyone else that has followed this thread and offered advice or made comments. I had let myself drift away from the forum here and may have missed out on opportunity . Please accept my apology for not responding in a more timely fashion.
Mr. Oroblanco, if you are still interested in viewing this artifact/relic we are still ready to meet with you so that you may have your hands on examination of the stone. We feel that this story is important enough that it needs to be told. First we need to find out exactly what that story is. With your help and the help of others in this forum the story that comes out could be one we will be proud to have been a part of. Please contact me so we may begin making plans for this new adventure.
Once again I wish to thank all that have been following this thread and especially those that have given imput and advice; namely, Oroblanco, Tropical Tramp, Somehiker. geezerdb, JSpinner, H-2 Charlie, Springfield, cactus jumper, Gold Maven, markmar, recon digger. I hope to hear from you soon. ---- Alb

Good evening Quigley
Good evening Sepa


So there you are! I have some good contributions for your research/investigation. Then you can add me to your prospect list like the one posted here, which looks like the other two lists included in the last two pojects I was working on.

If course I can recommend a couple of cryptologists if ya need one.

 

[chlsbrns]

Albert, Arizona was never owned by Spain. It was owned by Mexico.

Personally I do not believe the lost Dutchman mine story. Much of the numerous stories do not make sense.

Lost Dutchmen were Germans not Dutch.

The stones look like clay and are not weathered. Look at a 100 year old graveyard & try to find a grave stone that can be read.

The cut out heart pretty much verifies it was made from clay. No way to cut out the underside of the heart from stone so smoothly.

The language on the stones is Spanish but the Dutchmen were German?

There are numerous mines. How would anyone know if they found the correct mine?

 

[chlsbrns]

Ok after some quick research I think I located the mine.

Check this location against any and all clues and I think you will agree that this is the Lost Dutchman Mine!

http://maps.google.com/?t=h&q=http://mrdata.usgs.gov/mrds/kml.php?labno=10259151

Look for the black X in the center of the map.

 

[rampuffpuff]

Albert, Arizona was never owned by Spain. It was owned by Mexico.

Personally I do not believe the lost Dutchman mine story. Much of the numerous stories do not make sense.

Lost Dutchmen were Germans not Dutch.

The stones look like clay and are not weathered. Look at a 100 year old graveyard & try to find a grave stone that can be read.

The cut out heart pretty much verifies it was made from clay. No way to cut out the underside of the heart from stone so smoothly.

The language on the stones is Spanish but the Dutchmen were German?

There are numerous mines. How would anyone know if they found the correct mine?

Ever see "Mr Majestic"? Loved that movie...?

But anyways... I digress...


I did kinda wonder why the stone was weathered, but the letters were not, even when zooming in.

Lets get some experts to join the thread. I'll put out the call. The more the merrier...right?

Until then, we can clarify a thing or two. Why did Ollie move the stone? If it had beeb there for hundreds of years I doubt it was in danger if disappearing.

Why kind of stone is it in geological terminology? What kind of tool could carve such narrow groves in the stone? Did they have case-hardened carbide tools back when the Spanish explorers were wandering through the tribal indian lands, also claimed by Mexico to be theirs even though mexicans never settled there?

I have more questions, and I am sure the thread OP, having not just migrated out from the east, and having posted pics already on the web, will give us expert information on the history of the region.

 

[rampuffpuff]

Ok after some quick research I think I located the mine.

Check this location against any and all clues and I think you will agree that this is the Lost Dutchman Mine!

http://maps.google.com/?t=h&q=http://mrdata.usgs.gov/mrds/kml.php?labno=10259151

Look for the black X in the center of the map.

Sorry, but I saw no "X" on the map. I DID see what looked like a large gathering of people wearing what looked like tunics and yellow satchels in the north part of the wooded area.

Could they be Spanish re enactors?

Or are they germanic-dutch-mexican-spaniard-saxon undead army re enactors? I am so confused!

Jeff.... you here yet?

 

[Oroblanco]

Albert - my sincere apologies, but my wife and I were unable to attend the annual rendezvous (due to work) and will not be able to arrange a meeting until probably next fall. I wish it could have been arranged as I would very much like to examine the stone.

Chlsbrns wrote

Albert, Arizona was never owned by Spain. It was owned by Mexico.

I realize this was addressed to our mutual amigo Albert, but I would point out that this is in error. Spain did own Arizona, New Mexico, California, Nevada, most of Utah and Colorado as well as Texas, up until the Mexican revolution of 1810. Mexico owned Arizona only from 1810 until the Mexican-American war of 1846-48, and sold the southern portion of the state in the Gadsden Purchase 1854. Here is a period map from the 1700s showing the extent of Spanish lands in North America and those claimed by Britain at the same time.

<from http://www.history-map.com/picture/000/pictures/Territory-Spanish-British-America.jpg >

I checked your map and site picked to be the Lost Dutchman mine, what you have picked out is the Bulldog mine. Ore from the Bulldog mine does not match the ore you can see in the Waltz matchbox made from a piece of his ore. You are certainly free and welcome to not believe that the Lost Dutchman mine exists of course.

Good luck and good hunting to you all, thank you to Albert and my apologies again, wish we could have had the chance to meet.
Oroblanco