Artifact, but whats the story on it?

[jr.nation88]

This was found while wading a creek in SE Missouri. It looks to be a tool of some type but would be interested in maybe finding a bit more information on it. I am sure there are a few experts or two on here that can shed some light!!

 

[bmartin0693]

This was found while wading a creek in SE Missouri. It looks to be a tool of some type but would be interested in maybe finding a bit more information on it. I am sure there are a few experts or two on here that can shed some light!!

I don't know what it is made of, but sure looks like a stone artifact. Possibly larger tools could be made from this.........

 

[JUNKYARD DOG]

maybe a digger or spade. sure is big. wes

 

[Get-the-point]

It is a spade.....these are common in Missouri and come in various sizes but mostly large like the one you have there. It is most likely archaic. It's use was simple to dig or chop.......................................GTP

 

[MObushwhacker]

This is a spade from SE Missouri Found by my brother digging a footing for a house in the Sikeston MO area

 

[mikusek]

We called those hoes in Iowa. Sometimes they had notches. Never found one myself, but always hoped.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

It is a spade, also called a hoe.... I found many of them when I lived in Central Missouri.... (Columbia MO) Yours is a nice large one....

 

[MObushwhacker]

Jr. Nation 88 I still without a doubt think that you have a large knife. I'd hate to differ with you MObushwhacker, but the workmanship along the edges on your so called spade is a little too refined for simply digging in soil and rocks. So I beg you to consider that your artifact is a large knife used in skinning and cutting up large game. Below: A photo of a large knife like yours with the fine flaking compared to several other photo's of 'diggers" or "spades" or "choppers, that were attached to a handle for digging. Please compare the difference and size of flaking between your "knife" and my knife and the artifacts in the bottom three photo's.
I respectfully disagree with you belief that these large spades are really knifes used to cut up large game. Most of these Missouri spades show considerable polishing on the working end (bit end). I believe this could only be achieved by using it as a spade for digging.) The polishing (wear) is confident with it being stuck in the ground over a long period of time. It would never polish up like that cutting up meat.


Old digger.

 

[Get-the-point]

Question? Even on a metal knife, how long does it take before the knife needs to be resharpened after cutting into meat, fat and sinew before the edge is "smooth and dull". Your artifact has been most likely been heavely used in probably butchering a buffalo. I challenge you to have a flint knaper make you a similar knife, and see how long it takes before the edge is smoothed and dull. But you have your opinion, and I base my opinion on studied scientific fact. Perhaps if possible you should read a copy of proffesor Frison's book about the butchering or procurment of the pre historic indians. That's all I'm going to say. You have an opinion and I have my opinion. Sorry; JR Nation 88 I was Just trying to give you an honest opinion on your artifact based on my studies. Therefore I'll leave it up to you to evaluate what purpose your artifact was used for. Old digger.

I disagree with your assessment of this piece. This artifact is clearly a spade. I agree with your analysis of your blade as being a knife. It is clear with all the definitive edge work on the blade with the constricted end. Now this however after numerous examples being found in Missouri is a Spade. Although it is refined and worked nicely one thing clearly is prevalent and that is the flared bit. This is common on a lot of Celts. Spades like celts come in different shapes. One thing though that is clear is the distinction between knife and Spade, that is blade edge. On your knife it has secondary flaking to sharpen the blade. This though no matter how many times you use it will retain a flattened edge albeit it can be dull but it will still have a edge. Like a lot of points we find. A spade however will exhibit a extremely rounded tip edge along with the whole blade being dull. As this example clearly shows. You stated scientific proof. The proof is staring at you. Notice how your knife blade has fluency, nice percussion flaking, along with secondary pressure flaking, it almost looks like a nice first stage Agate Basin or Clovis knife. It has a tip to it to pierce and a thinned base to haft whereas this spade does not. This spade was hafted in a manner where it was hafted at the constricted side so that every hit would seat it tighter. They would wrap a stick around it and tie it off. Your knife was either hafted or not. They did both. It is probably thin and not even 1/2" of an inch in thickness. Knife blades where mostly thin and closely resemble a spearhead. Spades though had to be thicker as they were meant for striking the ground and wood. Please tell me if i am incorrect on your blades thickness. I can almost guarantee that this Spade is twice if not 3x's as thick as your blade. I will need a comparison from this poster and you but i can guarantee it. The next thing to prove to you that this is a Spade through scientific analysis is the fact that this is more shaped like a flared bit celt then a knife. That alone is proof that this is a spade. As it was hafted to strike objects using the spades flared end like all celts..............................The proof is in the design of the piece. I do not argue the fact that your blade(and it is a nice one)is a knife. I want to educate you and the poster based on scientific fact. Examine the piece before you make your conclusion. Those pieces you showed as a comparison do not even come close to the prime examples of flint spades to come out of Missouri. They more resemble choppers and blanks. I do need the thickness of both pieces posted to show you and everyone else the difference. I would like the poster as well to show a picture of the blades edge and you do the same. Then the pole end I would appreciate a picture of that. Although many people would like to share information on this site i would caution people who give it. Give a proper argument, not one that states my blade is a knife and yours is too. Supply concrete proof to your claim. Do not tell a person you are 100% accurate when you cannot even substantiate your claim with solid facts on your opinion.............................GTP

 

[Hippy]

Yep, that's a big ol' spade made from Mill Creek Chert. Pretty cool to find one anymore. There's not many left that aren't broken. Congrats on the find.

Hippy

 

[old digger]

I no longer wish to coment on this matter. I gave my side of the argument, I stated that I concluded, that JR Nation 88's artifact presented itsself in the fashion of a large knife. I never STATED I was 100% sure it was. I'm sorry; I'm not as refined as you my be. I thought Tnet was a site where other enthusasiasts could freely express their oponions and thoughts without much objectivity. Old digger............

 

[tmodel]

Old Digger!! YES we all can express our oponions and thoughts as we see things. I do all the time and a part of the time someone will come along and show me where i am wrong with me that is most of the time that they jump in it is me. sometimes i find find enough facts to talk about it with them. Terry OH one thing i will not do is pull my post wrong or right or in between.

 

[Get-the-point]

I no longer wish to coment on this matter. I gave my side of the argument, I stated that I concluded, that JR Nation 88's artifact presented itsself in the fashion of a large knife. I never STATED I was 100% sure it was. I'm sorry; I'm not as refined as you my be. I thought Tnet was a site where other enthusasiasts could freely express their oponions and thoughts without much objectivity. Old digger............

This site is about supplying your opinion in search of the facts. Several people on here stated that this is a spade. You were the only one stating it was a knife. The problem is is that no one supplied the proof to educate the finder about how they came up with that conclusion. In searching for the truth you must learn to humble yourself to facts presented when they are correct. Back up your statements with proof to contradict. When I countered your statement I provided proof through scientific analysis of the artifact in question.

To give the finder a complete education on his piece he is going to need to see the pictures of your knife at the base, a side shot for thickness comparison and a shot of the tip. That is how we can all learn on here. The poster will need to show the bit end of the spade and side shots for thickness. So i respectfully ask if Old Digger and JRNATION to supply those photo's so everyone can be educated on the difference...............................GTP

 

[old digger]

Sorry GTP; your right.. Old digger.

 

[tncreeker]

GTP,,

Very well said.

 

[Get-the-point]

Digger no reason to apologize. There are a couple of things that make this site great, besides the mutual enjoyment of hunting for history, we get to show our finds to those who truly appreciate it. Then the best part about this site is the discovery and display of newly extricated artifact and the investigation to find out what it is and its use and place in history. That is why I love this site, i am always learning new things in different fields of collecting.Please enjoy being here with all of us. If you can please supply those photo's of your knife that I requested. It will show all the differences between the two pieces and educate those who want to understand better. Thanks Old digger and look forward to your finds.....................................GTP

 

[old digger]

 

[old digger]

 

[lookindown]

Knife.

 

[Get-the-point]

Wow Old Digger that knife really is a beauty. I love how it is perfect thickness all the way down the blade. Have you had that looked at? It looks like a possible Clovis knife. She sure is a beauty man..............................Thanks for posting those pictures.............................GTP