✅ SOLVED Artillery shell (WWI gas shell?) help

Shady Digger · Jul 6, 2016

So a friend of mine recently asked for my help in IDing this artillery shell he has. It was given to him some years back by a coworker who dug the shell up while working on a job site in the DC area. He assumed it was a type of Parrott shell. Although it is really similar in size to Parrott shells, I really don't believe it is. Based on the completely flat base, the copper(?) band toward base (like it was designed to be fired from a modern metal casing) and the fixed hexagon fuse cap (I'm guessing) at the tip, I think it's 20th century. I found an image online of a WWI gas shell that looks really similar. Can anyone help me confirm that it is a gas shell and help me find more info about it and the gun(s) that it was designed for?

3.5in diameter
11.687 length

jewelerguy · Jul 6, 2016

send cannonball guy a pm and ask him to come look. he can tell you for sure

NOLA_Ken · Jul 6, 2016

are you sure about the measurement of the diameter? It's definitely a WW1 gas shell, but it should be a 75mm. The threaded part isn't the actual fuse, it's a tube that would have been filled with a bursting charge and an impact fuse would have threaded into it.

Here's the problem... the gas could very possibly still be in it. There is absolutely no safe way to inert one of these shells without special equipment. Being an experimental type though it may have never been loaded.... If you can find a table of weights on this shell (loaded vs unloaded) that may give you some idea....

UXOInfoAdPreview: WWI Experimental 75mm High Explosive Shells Adapted For Poison Gas

BARKER · Jul 6, 2016

Hi; Please do the SMART thing. Call the REAL Experts, (No disrespect to anyone here), Call the Police NOW. If that had gas in it and there is ANY gas residue on it or in it, Then it "IS" a ticking BOMB waiting to go off. Gas is an equal opportunity KILLER. It "will" kill you, your friend and anyone who gets near it. There is no way to know 100% that there is absolutely no gas or residue in it. HAVE IT DESTROYED "NOW". It is a true danger to the ENTIRE Community. What happens if it gets heated up or gets wet?? That Gas is released PERIOD. PLEASE call the POLICE "NOW".
Also if not then Does he have a License to Own this thing if it can be rendered inert ?? Please think about it ok. PEACE:RONB :dontknow:

NOLA_Ken · Jul 6, 2016

Can you get some info as to where it was found? If it was near a training area during WW1 it "could" be a smoke round used for training as well. It seems none of these were actually used during the war, but some were shipped overseas.

Before you decide to turn it in to be destroyed, get an accurate weight and we can see about finding a source for loaded and unloaded weights to compare

EOD Operator · Jul 10, 2016

As a recently retired Explosive Ordnance Disposal technician, you need to contact the authorities. Best case scenario, you have a smoke round. Worst case, it's chemical. Most likely H mustard gas. You need military support, not police. Specifically Tech Escort. Cops don't have the technical know-how to dispose of chem properly.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

AU Seeker · Jul 10, 2016

NOLA_Ken said:
are you sure about the measurement of the diameter? It's definitely a WW1 gas shell, but it should be a 75mm. The threaded part isn't the actual fuse, it's a tube that would have been filled with a bursting charge and an impact fuse would have threaded into it.

Here's the problem... the gas could very possibly still be in it. There is absolutely no safe way to inert one of these shells without special equipment. Being an experimental type though it may have never been loaded.... If you can find a table of weights on this shell (loaded vs unloaded) that may give you some idea....

UXOInfoAdPreview: WWI Experimental 75mm High Explosive Shells Adapted For Poison Gas

BARKER said:
Hi; Please do the SMART thing. Call the REAL Experts, (No disrespect to anyone here), Call the Police NOW. If that had gas in it and there is ANY gas residue on it or in it, Then it "IS" a ticking BOMB waiting to go off. Gas is an equal opportunity KILLER. It "will" kill you, your friend and anyone who gets near it. There is no way to know 100% that there is absolutely no gas or residue in it. HAVE IT DESTROYED "NOW". It is a true danger to the ENTIRE Community. What happens if it gets heated up or gets wet?? That Gas is released PERIOD. PLEASE call the POLICE "NOW".
Also if not then Does he have a License to Own this thing if it can be rendered inert ?? Please think about it ok. PEACE:RONB

EOD Operator said:
As a recently retired Explosive Ordnance Disposal technician, you need to contact the authorities. Best case scenario, you have a smoke round. Worst case, it's chemical. Most likely H mustard gas. You need military support, not police. Specifically Tech Escort. Cops don't have the technical know-how to dispose of chem properly.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

Follow the GREAT advice given in these replies, it's not worth the risk of hurting yourself and not to mention countless others if the shell still contains gas or other compounds, there's no way even if you weight it for you to determine for sure if it's really has harmful compounds within it, you are not an expert, call those who are!!!

The harmful compound would be contained in between the fitting/tube and the outer shell housing, as rusty as that shell is the seal could start leaking at any time releasing any compound that it could contain, so act fast!

BARKER · Jul 10, 2016

Hi; EOD & AU are RIGHT. PLEASE LISTEN TO THEM & ME. Forget the Weights and Measures routine. CALL the real Pros "NOW".
Do you want to expose your FAMILY to it

$:-\$ How would you feel then

Sorry but this is "NOT" a game. Sorry you may have a nice find destroyed but I'd rather DESTROY it than my Family & Friends and I think you do as well given the true Nature of that thing.
Be Safe, Not SORRY. We await your response here ok. PEACE:RONB :dontknow:

PS: I just went back to look at it again. The Shell says "SPECIAL GAS" right on it. Think about it ok.

AU Seeker · Jul 10, 2016

Barker, the photo of the two shells that are in relatively good condition, in which one does says "Special Gas", I'm pretty sure are from the internet when Shady Digger did his research, the shell in question and much more dangerous IMHO because there's no way to know what is it's contents are the 4 photos of the very, very rusty shell!

NOLA_Ken · Jul 10, 2016

The reason I asked about where it was found is that American University in DC is one of the places where gas shells were developed. They buried who knows how much of the stuff nearby in Spring Valley. There was a big dig there a few years ago, but who knows if they got it all? So, it it was found in that area, just assume it's lethal, and get it as far away from you as possible. Put it in padding in a rubbermaid tub and contact a military EOD, call your local Corps of Engineers division. the local bomb squad is not going to be qualified to deal with this.

They way these things are disposed of is to incinerate them, and then run the fumes from the incinerator through another incinerator... That should give you some idea of just how nasty they are....

https://www.washingtonian.com/2013/02/28/the-toxic-waste-pit-next-door/

BARKER · Jul 10, 2016

Hi Shady Digger; Your hearing from two Pros who are VERY Nervous about your find. What more can we say ?? I wish you would respond by Posting some kind of reply here ok. Whatever was inside that shell has almost definitely permeated the lining of the shell remaining inert until you exposed it to the Elements again via digging. Hot air or Water both can and most likely will activate the chemicals that remain inside of it.
We here are seriously concerned for your safety as well as the safety of all those around you. Please respond. Thanks. PEACE:RONB

NOLA_Ken · Jul 10, 2016

I managed to find info online about loaded vs unloaded weights for these, and the difference is so slight and varies so much between different fills, with no mention of whether those weights include the bursting charge or not, that IMO there no reliable way to determine if it's live or not. I have to say the best course of action is to not take a chance and get rid of it. It's the kind of thing that could wipe out an entire neighborhood if it is loaded and happened to leak. These chemical agents are corrosive to the metal of the shell and will seriously weaken them over time. Even professionals run into problems with them....

http://strongpointsecurity.co.uk/si...014/05/25044105-Old-Chemical-Weapons-1994.pdf

BARKER · Jul 10, 2016

Hi; Shaddydigger; My Apologies. I reread your Post. I now realize it is your friends find, not yours. We do NOT blame you for it ok. I'm sorry about that. Even so if you gave the shell back to your friend and did not tell him about Our advice and Warnings then if ANYONE gets hurt or killed by this BOMB then you ARE 100% Guilty of having caused those injuries or deaths. If you would PLEASE just respond and let us know the shells current Status we would feel MUCH better here ok. Right now, YES, WE ARE SCARED for you and your Friend and Families. Such is the Nature of this situation that we are considering contacting the Police so they can reach you DIRECTLY and find out the status of this Chemical Weapon ok. We here can NOT wait much longer at all ok. It is a BOMB ok. We await your Reply. What say ye ?? PEACE:RONB

AU Seeker · Jul 10, 2016

BARKER said:
Hi; Shaddydigger; My Apologies. I reread your Post. I now realize it is your friends find, not yours. We do NOT blame you for it ok. I'm sorry about that. Even so if you gave the shell back to your friend and did not tell him about Our advice and Warnings then if ANYONE gets hurt or killed by this BOMB then you ARE 100% Guilty of having caused those injuries or deaths. If you would PLEASE just respond and let us know the shells current Status we would feel MUCH better here ok. Right now, YES, WE ARE SCARED for you and your Friend and Families. Such is the Nature of this situation that we are considering contacting the Police so they can reach you DIRECTLY and find out the status of this Chemical Weapon ok. We here can NOT wait much longer at all ok. It is a BOMB ok. We await your Reply. What say ye ?? PEACE:RONB

Barker take it easy, let's assume the best at this point, I'm a little stressed out about this shell as well, Shady Digger posted this 4 days ago and hasn't visited the forum since the day after, I don't think he ever had possession of the shell, I'm assuming that his friend sent him photos or they took photos during a visit, I'm also assuming from the casual posting of this topic that neither realize the very real danger this shell poses.

Most people do other things during the weekend, and from looking at Shady Digger's date of joining the forum and his total posts I'm assuming that he doesn't visit the forum that often, let's give him more time to come back before jumping the gun, he's stated that his friend obtained this shell several years ago, so let's assume that it's being kept out of the environment/weather and is as stable as it can be for the condition it's in, so I'm hoping it will remain that way until Shady Digger returns and hopefully takes the recommended action to have the shell safely destroyed by a EOD team.

Treasure_Hunter · Jul 10, 2016

Shady never once said the shell is in his possession. Do not call the police on a member because he asked a question on our forum.

BARKER · Jul 10, 2016

Hi TH; I know. That's why I brought it to your attention ok. That is the very least We here could do. I always digress to better advice ok. PEACE:RONB

AU Seeker · Jul 10, 2016

I might also add that even though this an artillery shell, it's not a BOMB, without the detonator being present there's no way the explosive charge could remain in the charging tube after all this time, so there's no risk of an explosion without either of those two elements, the only risk is the shell housing developing a leak.

gunsil · Jul 10, 2016

Too many alarmists here!! My experience is that dug corroded WW1 shells are harmless as are all dug civil war shells. WW2 .50 cal or other found ammo will not hurt you, leave the police out of it, they just muddy things up unnecessarily and most of them wouldn't know what to do with old ordinance anyways. When old guns or knives are found the chances of them having been used in a crime are slim to none, and slim left town a long time ago, taking them to police is ridiculous. Most cops don't know from squat and could care less about old things found in the ground. I have hunted for spent shells for PDs at their request, but just offering them old ammo and ordinance is in my opinion a stupid waste of time.

NOLA_Ken · Jul 10, 2016

Gunsil, I have to disagree with you there, WW1 ordinance is nothing to mess with. bullets, no problem, but artillery is no good to mess with if it's live and corroded...

The iron harvest: Meet the soldiers tasked with clearing hundreds of tonnes of deadly World War I shells and mines from beneath the fields of Flanders | Daily Mail Online

Shady Digger · Jul 10, 2016

Hey guys, sorry for the delay. I've been pretty busy the past several days and haven't really had much free time to get on here. I've read all the replies and I greatly appreciate the input. But I feel like I should provide more input to maybe clear things up a bit. The shell does indeed belong to a friend of mine, and he has had it for many years sitting in his house as a sort of display piece, part of his collection. He had always assumed it was a Parrott rifle shell, but when we recently toured the grounds of the Manassass battlefield and got to see some relic Parrott shells up close, he noticed his shell was different. So I offered to take the pics and do some research. The photo of the painted shell did come from the internet, and I included it to support my theory of his shell being a WWI gas shell. The fuse is long gone, I'm not even sure it was dug up with a fuse in it. I assume the giant hole that runs almost the full length of the interior of the shell is where the agent would have been placed. Seeing that it's been empty and 'unfused' the entire time its been in his possession, I would think its harmless. But I'm absolutely no expert, and I'm aware that many people on here are pretty knowledgeable with old artillery pieces so I posted here to get a confirmation of its identity and maybe more information surrounding the piece and the gun that fired it.

Thanks for the feedback, and I apologize for the confusion.