Between street and sidewalk: public or private?

[TrpnBils]

I was asked to leave an area by a security guard this afternoon when I was hunting an area between the curb and the sidewalk around the back of a business that wasn't open at the time. I didn't particularly care because I was leaving soon anyway, but isn't this public property? I asked about that and he said "well....but this company mows the grass there" so I just said "ok thanks" and left.

Public or private?

 

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[extractor]

I would check with the city hall . Different citys have different rights on those areas.

 

[Sandman]

SWR is right. Many cities have some different ruls as to who owns the property between the sidewalk and road, but the business in your case has the chore of upkeep of the grass along with keeping the sidewalk clear of snow and ice. While you may have had the right to detect there, it is easy to move on to another location.

 

[Lasivian]

The best way to figure this one out is to find the Recorders website for your county.

Most likely they have detailed GIS maps online that show exactly where the property lines end and where the "road" property begins. A major benefit is you can print this data out for exactly the area you plan to hunt and have it in hand if security or police hassle you.

At least, that's how I do it here in Seattle to know which ones I can hunt and which ones I can't.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I hunt the parking strip all the time, and yes, it's public, as far as I know in all cities. Every once in awhile you'll get someone who thinks they can usher you on. If so, just move on. No biggee

 

[TrpnBils]

That's what I figured....like I said I was leaving anyway, but I did find a wheat penny so I was hoping there may have been some silver around.

It's funny. I live just outside of one of the largest and oldest cities in Pennsylvania and I have only ever found 4 or 5 wheats, no indians, and no silver. Maybe I'm just bad at this

 

[TerryC]

That's what I figured....like I said I was leaving anyway, but I did find a wheat penny so I was hoping there may have been some silver around.

It's funny. I live just outside of one of the largest and oldest cities in Pennsylvania and I have only ever found 4 or 5 wheats, no indians, and no silver. Maybe I'm just bad at this

TrpnBils,
Don't give up! The silver is there! You will find it. Practice, practice, practice. Suggestion... go to a place where you've found wheats before. Section off an area, say 10' by 10', then work it till ALL signals are dug. After the trash comes out, you will start to find silver! But it will be deeper. TTC

 

[EasyMoney]

In most cases, but not all, the sidewalk strips belong to the city. Some however belong to a private individual or a corporation, it all depends on many things.

I was once attacked by two very large men who decided that the sidewalk strip in front of their hospital and hospice equipment business was theirs to control. I was not detecting at all, but I had my detector out anyway - although I had already decided to NOT use it there, especially since the area was so well manicured. The attack insued and I decided to persue the matter in civil court due to the attitude of the two men. I was a belt holder in judo and sogo kempo at the time and later on added jiujitsu to my experiences, but I decided to not hurt either of them at that time regardless of what they did, or their decidedly menacing behavior. A trip to the DA's office made my day . The court (in the ensuing trial) determined that although the property was that of the city, that the people caring for it were legally responsible for it, so there was no ill intention on their part, rather they were trying to protect theirs and the city's interest, even though no damage of any kind had been done to the city's property in any way.

The end product was that I learned to be very careful with the sidewalk strips and to only consider the older, less cared for strips in the run-down parts of town, as in the older abandoned places. I also take a gun with me when I hunt those places now. The attorneys for the two men cost them thousands of $$$, and I mean THOUSANDS! They had to buy the best lawyers they could find. As I said, there was a trial and the men were warned by the judge that the next time they attacked someone and returned to his courtroom that there would be jail time the next time around, without fail. Still, the next person may not know that the strip could well be city property and I may have equal right to search there as long as I don't damage anything, run down or not. In that case, I would be answering to the city, not the person who thinks he or she owns the strip. It's always better to be safe than sorry.

EasyMoney

 

[Nick A]

All the cities I have lived in, the curbside belongs to the property owner and maintenance is the owner's responsibility. However, it is a public right of way and utility access, which means you can't, for example, put up a fence around it. Generally a good rule of thumb is to think about who mows the grass on it it. If the city mows it (like a boulevard median... it's fair game) if a property owner mows it... you better ask permission. If I saw you detecting the curbside strip in front of my house/apartment/building and you had not asked me, I'd call the cops.

 

[Lasivian]

If I saw you detecting the curbside strip in front of my house/apartment/building

I'd go out to tell the person "Don't think you'll find much there, i've already gone over it quite a few times myself"

 

[Casull]

All the cities I have lived in, the curbside belongs to the property owner and maintenance is the owner's responsibility. However, it is a public right of way and utility access, which means you can't, for example, put up a fence around it. Generally a good rule of thumb is to think about who mows the grass on it it. If the city mows it (like a boulevard median... it's fair game) if a property owner mows it... you better ask permission. If I saw you detecting the curbside strip in front of my house/apartment/building and you had not asked me, I'd call the cops.

In almost all cases within the corporate limits of a city or town, the area between the sidewalk and street is municipal property, not the adjoining property owners. When the subdivisions are platted, the streets are dedicated to the city or town, thus owned by same. And, when I say the streets, that includes the sidewalks and the area between the sidewalk and street. This is purposely done for a number of reasons, including possible future widening of the roads.

 

[bakergeol]

All the cities I have lived in, the curbside belongs to the property owner and maintenance is the owner's responsibility. However, it is a public right of way and utility access, which means you can't, for example, put up a fence around it. Generally a good rule of thumb is to think about who mows the grass on it it. If the city mows it (like a boulevard median... it's fair game) if a property owner mows it... you better ask permission. If I saw you detecting the curbside strip in front of my house/apartment/building and you had not asked me, I'd call the cops.

That's exactly what happened to a member of my club many years ago. He was detecting on the city's strip between the street and the sidewalk.
Some lady who owned the adjacent property called 911 and the cops came out promply. After listening to both sides they wrote the lady a $500 ticket for improper use of a 911 number and left. The guy went back to detecting with a BIG SMILE on his face.

George

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Bakergeol, I LOVE IT! thanx :P

 

[KTMRIDER]

In my locale, 10' on either side of the road belongs to and is maintained by the county.

 

[deepskyal]

Hey TrpnBils,

Well...I've lived in a couple different counties around here, detected in quite a few...and I'll tell you this...SWR is 100% correct in our neck of the woods.

In Economy Borough, Beaver County, my property line extended to the center of the road. That surely doesn't mean I owned it...I'd have been arrested if I tried to stop anyone from driving on MY road. Then they ran a sewer line through my back yard, a 20' swath of right-of-way was created, but you couldn't trespass on it, only the borough if they had to. But I couldn't build on it either.

In Sharpsburg, you own TO the street, are responsible for that as far as maintainence and will get fined if you don't shovel the snow....but the mafia might get you if you detect their strip of grass in front of their houses. Gas and Water lines run under the sidewalks, are a right-of-way, and you can't stop THEM!

In Worthington in Armstrong County, another house I owned, my property line ran across the road and halfway into Bull Run Creek...but I couldn't stop anyone from wading down MY side of the creek and surely couldn't stop anyone from driving on the road. Plus I had a railroad right-of-way through my back yard. You couldn't trespass on it, but the railroad could.

The laws are extremely grey on this matter, from town to town.

My advice to you...try it, detect it, but if someone asks you to leave...by all means leave and don't make a big stink of it. There are plenty of old towns and sidewalks around to detect instead of waisting your time arguing the point with some crazed homeowner who may or may not be right.

Al

 

[Ant]

Most places around here the property line starts in center of the street too. With an easement backset that is normally 20 to 30 feet. The easement backset is for traffic, parking, pedestrian traffic, utilities, mail delivery and the likes.

In most cases the up keep of the parking strip is property owner responsibility, and something curbing and sidewalk.

 

[twistidd]

Over here, it does not matter who that property belongs to, you'll either have the cops called on you, get harrassed, beat up, or shot. And to be honest, I wouldn't want anyone on "my" grass, because even though it may not be mine, digging in the wrong weather conditions or improper digging techniques can cause damage that I'd have to pay for to fix.