Big cats in East TN

[pippinwhitepaws]

 

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[kuger]

In the early 90's the State solicited the assistance of a good friend of mine to capture 10 lions in Henry Coe State Park,so that they could collar and track them.Within just a short time the 10 were caught and it became evident that their were many more lions within the park than the State had ever imagined.The proceeded to identify a total of 50 lions!!Fast forward to 2001....The State awarded a total of $700,000 to a private party to remove wild hogs from Henry Coe Park because of the over population and environmental damage they were causing...this project is ongoing....moral........extreme density of both lions and hogs....lions do not control populations of pigs

 

[huntsman53]

...this may top the list of all time doozies!!!!!

Please show me where you got that info.....there is NO BREED of Black Lion,and Lions are definitely no population control for PIGS!!!!I have worked professionally in an an area with one of the highest densities of both wild pigs and lions and can honestly tell you I have never seen a lion killed pig.Also as I said before there HAS NEVER been a documented BLACK lion killed in the US...in the wild,by car,gun,or any other means,please show me where all these Black lions were killed!!!Think about this too....please.....lions are known to kill people....right?I have worked human fatalities...how many people have been killed by hogs?Now what sense would it make to put in an animal known to kill people to protect them from an animal not known to kill people?Didnt happen

You can scoff at what I wrote all you want! The fact still remains, that there have been hundreds of sightings, road kills and hunter/farmer/cattle men kills of Black Panthers in East Tennessee near and along the boundaries of the GSMNP and the North and South Cherokee National Forests. The story of them being brought into the GSMNP by the Department of Interior and the TWRA was in the Knoxville News Sentinel in I believe in 1964. (You can search the Knoxville New Sentinel's Archives or newspapers at a local Knoxvlle Library for the story if you wish but I am not going to do so!) Most if not all agencies involved will deny that they had any involvement in transplanting Black Panthers into the GSMNP because it is in their' interests to do so, just like the West Virginia Department of Natural Resources denied bringing Coyotes into West Virginia. However, the West Virginia DNR got caught with their' pants down in the mid 1990's when an email trail to their involvement was found and they were sued by the West Virginia Sheep Breeders Association and others and now have to pay for Sheep kills by Coyotes and also have to supply and maintain poison bait stations around the State to curtail the Coyote populations in that State!

I have personally seen Black Panther tracks in West Virginia, seen Mountain Lion tracks in Southeast Tennessee and heard the blood curdling scream of a Black Panther on English Mountain in Sevier County, Tennessee in the Summer of 1978. I am 60 years old, began hunting with my dad when I was 6 years old and have hunted ever since. I have researched the tracks of Black Panthers, Mountain Lions and of Bobcats and know enough to tell the difference between their tracks and know what I saw!

While a Black Panther may not be a match for most adult Wild Boar, they can easily take down young Wild Boar and injured or sick adults. Once the kill is made, the Black Panther can either escape to the trees with their prey or wait in the trees until the herd moves on and retrieve their kill then. With enough Black Panther kills of young and injured or sickened adult Wild Boar in an area, the Wild Boar population suffers.


Frank

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

ok...how does one produce the color of an animal from paw tracks?

and why do people who study this issue, seem so unaware of the numbers of black cats in north america, inferred from your post?

 

[kuger]

Bud,its not about any conspiracies,there is no such a animal as a BLACK panther,their is Melanism....this is not a breed!!!!Look up the science,its no secret.I have no vested interest in debunking your myth other than pointing out that it is IMPOSSIBLE.Even if you think State Agencies lie to the Public,trust me the Science world is small....word travels,especially when it comes to Mtn lions....there are not that many experts in the US....word travels.I would love to see a verified picture of a single Black cat killed.......one is not known!!!
I have to ask you,how in the hell do you know the track you seen was a Black panther?Please show me this research material you speak of because you evidently are onto some ground breaking new species with unique feet!!!!You studied up on it,lets see it!!!

Let me describe to you the mode of dispatch a lion utilizes........they grab by the neck,and either crush the back of the skull or grab the wind pipe to suffocate,a pigs wind pipe is within a heavy muscle and they dont have much of a neck,a lion would suffer injury in this attempt.I have come across many hog skulls that died from various causes and never one that had the top crushed....Please explain to me how a population could be controlled by a few of the adolescents being killed(you do realize that hogs have several litters a year with up to 12 piglets at a time and the first litter by the age of 1.5 years?)and by some that are sick?Your story is flawed,and not true.Please support these out landish claims,and stop spreading out right myth's...thats what you are spreading,and looking foolish doing it!!

 

[Number9]

Why yes we do have many large cats in East Tn!

Meet Mandara... Only one of about 6 or 7 known to be near by...



And it can be your pet!
"The adoption fee is $53 for one year. At the end of the year you may choose to continue the adoption of your special cat, or adopt another cat who needs your help, and increase the size of your "pride".

You will receive in your adoption package:

• Personalized certificate of adoption.
• 8 x 10 color photo of your adopted cat.
• Biography of your adopted cat."
• Tiger Haven, Inc.
  237 Harvey Road
  Kingston, TN 37763
  

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

omg...a pet cat used to impress upon others brown lions exist.

 

[kuger]

#9,that is a Melanistic Jaguar....and yes,it has been said that through genetic engineering in CAPTIVITY Melanism has occurred in Lions....

Pippin has about the best chance of seeing a Black Cat as anybody....melanism occurs more in Jags than any other feline,but is still extremely rare and not able to be passed on

 

[huntsman53]

I wrote the post purely for information purposes only from what I know! I do not have to nor will I qualify myself to you or anyone else on TNnet, nor will I clarify any further what I wrote. Take what I wrote as you may, with a grain of salt or a bucket of sh&%, I don't really care!

I will say this with ending. It is in the best interests of an agency or other to cover-up any information which could have dire consequences as to liability. Therefore, I am sure that researchers and scientists have been told or ordered many times to squash, cover-up and deny any information as to the existence of Black Panthers and/or Cougars or other animals in certain areas.

And by the way, my name is not "Bud" as you can clearly see below!


Frank

 

[Number9]

#9,that is a Melanistic Jaguar....and yes,it has been said that through genetic engineering in CAPTIVITY Melanism has occurred in Lions....

Pippin has about the best chance of seeing a Black Cat as anybody....melanism occurs more in Jags than any other feline,but is still extremely rare and not able to be passed on

Mandara is a leopard... they have 30 or so... I believe 6 or 7 are black?
They also have a few Jaguars... I don't know how many are black?

 

[kuger]

Frank,it has nothing to do with any agency trying or succeeding in covering anything up!!!!Its the FACT that the animal you are claiming was planted does not exist!!!Scientific fact which has nothing to do with whether or not anything is being hidden!!If you told me that they planted TIGERS I would possibly believe you...I would look into it though.I am one that likes to convey truth and would think you would as well.....I can back up and support what I state...and merely asked you to do the same.I will tell anybody reading this to merely peruse the net,and look into SCIENTIFIC facts on Black Cats.I have no hidden agenda,just a lifetime of experience in the field

 

[kuger]

Mandara is a leopard... they have 30 or so... I believe 6 or 7 are black?
They also have a few Jaguars... I don't know how many are black?

....makes sense...its no lion

 

[kuger]

Frank,one other thing,your a hunter....read up on Ben Lilly,or the Lee Brothers(the first white men to hunt Leopards with hounds in Brazil)they were legendary Lion hunters right here in the US,no agenda(other than to kill lions,and bears) and no affiliation with any State Agencies.....they never killed or seen any Black lions

 

[Number9]

"Tiger Haven is supported solely by private donations. We receive no state or government funds. We are currently supporting over 250 big cats including Tigers, Lions, Leopards, Cougars and Jaguar, and 14 lesser cats which includes Serval, Caracal, Bobcat, and Lynx."

I hope this place is able to have good cages for the big cats! This place works from a shoe string budget!

Tiger Haven

 

[kuger]

"Tiger Haven is supported solely by private donations. We receive no state or government funds. We are currently supporting over 250 big cats including Tigers, Lions, Leopards, Cougars and Jaguar, and 14 lesser cats which includes Serval, Caracal, Bobcat, and Lynx."

I hope this place is able to have good cages for the big cats! This place works from a shoe string budget!

Tiger Haven

These places are cruel and need to be outlawed....imho

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

I saw the hind quarter of a spotted jag down by Douglas...that was rare enough for me...

jaguar cats - Bing Images

 

[Clayton Bardwell]

These places are cruel and need to be outlawed....imho

Amen to that brother!

TNGUNS, I don't mean to hijack your thread but just wanted to ditto all that Kuger had to say.

Kuger, I feel your pain. I've been a professional outdoorsman all my life and am a retired game warden. We may have worked together.

All I would add is that the lions don't know where the experts say they are supposed to exist. Like the guy out in the middle of the woods once told me; "Everybody's got to be somewhere and this is where I'm at!"

EDIT: Sorry, I had to edit Kuger's name. I got it mixed up with Kruger National Park.

 

[kuger]

x10 Clayton,and we very well may have...at any rate I guarantee we share acquaintances

 

[huntsman53]

All I would add is that the lions don't know where the experts say they are supposed to exist. Like the guy out in the middle of the woods once told me; "Everybody's got to be somewhere and this is where I'm at!"

 

[kuger]

Frank....I never disputed LIONS,just BLACK ones....especially BREEDING pairs of BLACK lions!!!!Oh,and also....regardless of whether the State plants what....all WILDLIFE IS OWNED BY THE STATE,therefore they are financially liable...as Clayton can tell you,every human fatality in the State by a lion,has resulted in a cash settlement paid to the surviving family...also the reason you have to buy a hunting Lisc. and why The Feds have had to pay me to do what I do....Livestock Protection....