Blind dowser.

[aarthrj3811]

Gee...We all have our theories..To me it does not bother me as long as I can find gold..Art

 

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[lesjcbs]

Yes, I know. Just asking is all.

 

[lesjcbs]

Good luck, Les.

This is dowsing we're talking about. Don't fall for pseudoscience gobbledegook, and don't trust what you can't verify.

What you have posted about ideomotor response is correct. One of the best explanations I've ever seen. When you strip away all the explanations that are provably false, ideomotor response is what's left. The rods do not move themselves even though it feels like they do. Been there, done that. The sensation is compelling, and it took a while to reason through the underlying physics. The mystery is not what moves the rods (the design of the rods themselves is the answer to that question), the mystery is where the subconscious information comes from if you're blinded and can get a repeatable verifiable locate on an intended target.

Back on the old TNet dowsing-LRL forum (to my knowledge not archived) I posted my attempts to come up with testable hypotheses regarding the question of where the "information" comes from in ground-truthed blind locating. There were various hypotheses-- "God", "Universal Consciousness", "Akashanic Record", "Extraterrestrials screwing around with us", "Quantum-mechanical interaction between target and brain", maybe there were others I don't recall. I decided that ET's were the most plausible hypothesis based on analogy with the known behaviour of living beings, but I couldn't figure out any way to test the hypothesis. The whole matter of approaching this as a scientific question was 'way over the heads of 95% of the forum participants, you've already seen that happen here.

A friend of mine who is well-informed (and highly experienced) in the fields of treasure hunting and of paranormal locating, has (as I understand it from things he's posted) come to the conclusion that if nobody ever knew where it was , the paranormal methods won't work. In other words, if a treasure was buried (obviously someone knew where), if it's still there paranormal methods might prove useful in locating it. "Might". If a flood moved the treasure 200 meters, paranormal methods will prove fruitless. .........If my friend's conclusions regarding the nature of this stuff are true, it's a clue as to the underlying mechanics. I'm not saying that I either agree or disagree with my friend's opinion on this (if indeed I've expressed his opinion correctly, sorry if I misunderstood), merely saying that it's an opinion that was thunk through competently, not gullibilly or ignoramus or flibberdigibbet.

Since "blind dowsing" is the only kind that interests me (the other kind is plain ordinary stuff without any need for a gee-whiz explanation), this thread caught my attention. A decade ago I'd have dived right in, but this is now and in what's left of my life I have other more important business to attend to.

--Dave J.

[EDIT to add stuff]

Back in the bad old days, I used to frequently remind fellow forum denizens that "claimants go home empty-handed". Not only is this the evidence produced by supervised blinded testing, it is corroborated by both common sense and by faith in the ethics of the Universe if one has such faith.

Guys who claim they can dowse for a prize with the cameras rolling have an attitude problem. Once the cameras are rolling, they can't get the desire to succeed out of their head. Therefore ideomotor response is blocked, and they're doomed. This is ordinary psychology, there is no need to invoke paranormal explanations.

Then there's this other problem, the one I call the ethical one: blind dowsing is, in my opinion, not a personal power, it is merely a willingness to become available to another power. To claim that other power as one's own under personal control is a falsehood, and therefore cuts off the source. ........This much is true even if that "source" is ordinary subconscious knowledge, which however isn't of much use in well-blinded dowsing. If one accepts the proposition that blinded dowsing can actually "work", one must (according to this theory) not make false claims about what or who should be given credit for the power. That leads to the realization that dowsing as a contest matter isn't even dowsing, it's a fool holding a dowsing rod that ain't goin' nowhere, right in front of a camera.

There you are WOOF. I like your call sign. I started this blind dower thread after I read a post you once made about it. So, very soon I am going to put on a blind fold and dowse. I will have my wife help me by telling me what my rods are doing and to guide me away from obstacles that are in my way. Should be interesting.

 

[lesjcbs]

Something to think about......

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Divining rods and all common dowsing devices, are the simplest forms of electroscopes. The bent rod for example is just a variation of Gilbert's straw needle electroscope.
The divining rods are charged with static electricity from the dowser's own body. This static electricity can be seen quite adequately with a simple millivolt meter. This voltage is measured between the hands of the dowser, to measure this voltage accurately a diff amp should be used at the input to the voltmeter, "this eliminates stray signals which are common to both hands". The amount of voltage will vary depending on the person. A good dowser will have a high reading, "above 100 mv" while a poor dowser may read as low as,"0 mv.". For males the right hand is usually a negative polarity, and the left hand is positive in polarity. These polarities are usually reversed in females.
The divining rod charged positively will rotate in the dowsers hand to line up parallel to a negatively charged object being dowsed. A divining rod charged negatively will remain perpendicular to a negatively charged object being dowsed. This is because like charges repel, while unlike charges attract. Thus both bent divining rods are not required for dowsing. When two divining rods are used, and they are seen to cross, one of the rods is being moved to line up parallel with the charged object being dowsed. The other rod is moving to line up parallel to the first rod. A second reason for the two rods crossing is that of dowsing over an alternating current source, such as a pipeline or buried cable. these are usually buried shallow and are conducting ground currents as the path of least resistance.
The above statements can easily be proven by, dowsing over negatively and positively charged objects. The devices used in my experiments were, a rubber rod rubbed with cat fur to produce the positive charged object, while a glass rod rubbed with silk was used to produce the negatively charged object.
The reason conventional devices cannot detect these positive and negative charges, is probably because of the array in which the charged object gives off it's lines of force in all directions. Most instruments being omnidirectional devices would not pick up the small incremental changes in voltage along the earth’s surface. But the bent divining rods being unidirectional devices, can only turn to line up parallel to the charged object, when they are directly above the charged object.
The willow crotch is another type of dowsing device, this divining rod begins to pick up an attraction to the charged object prior to reaching the object, having it’s greatest amount of pull directly over the object. After dowsing with the willow crotch , the crotch itself can laid down and dowsed with the bent rods, which will indicate a charge left on each arm of the crotch, one positive and one negative.
A metallic pendulum attached by a wire will take on the charge of the hand it is being held by. A pendulum held by a nonconductive string will take on the charge of the last hand which held the pendulum. The pendulum when rotating above an object of a similar charge will continue to rotate and eventually swing back and forth perpendicular to the object. This pendulum when rotating above an object of the opposite charge will start to swing back and forth parallel to the object being dowsed. Caution here when dowsing an object you have touched the object will usually take on the charge of the last hand that touched it. This can be demonstrated by dowsing over an object such as a table knife depending on which hand touched the knife last an opposite reaction of the dowsing device will be seen.

AArt: I don't know why I didn't think of this before but maybe it's simply because I am slow. Regarding your statement about rods being charged with static electricity while in ones hands, I proved your statement to be 100% true, and I did not use any kind of volt meter to do it. In fact anyone who reads this, and doubts your claim, can easily copy this method in the privacy of their own home.

I noticed that every time I get up from our easy chair to go to our freezer to get something to eat (stuff my face), I would receive a very uncomfortable static shock when I touched the freezer door handle with my hand. It wasn't just a "click" I heard, additionally, the shock I felt was very strong. So, thinking about what you said about rods being statically charged when in your hands while dowsing, I decided to hold a dowsing rod in my hand while in my easy chair, then go to the freezer handle to see what would happen. Sure enough, as I eased the end of my dowsing rod close to the freezer door handle, "CLICK" and you could see the electricity (Mini lightning) very clearly jump between the two and I felt nothing.

Being brave and all, my wife volunteered the service of her hand to see what she would feel. "CLICK" Well, she would not do it again. Once was enough LOL and I don't blame her one bit either. Bless her heart.

Thanks.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Thank you Les….There is a lot going on between your body and the rods….Take the rods and walk toward a wall….Mine will close just before I get to the wall...Art
Dowsing Rods and Aura's

Why do I mention Dowsing Rods and Aura's? I didn't know anything about Aura's and didn't believe or disbelieve in them until I came upon a web site named Dowsing Rods and Aura's. An Aura is simply a magnet field around your body. Heres a little test you can try if you have learned to use your dowsing rods

Have a person stand in front of you. Walk slowly toward them and when your rods cross you are inside of their aura.Now back up slowly until your rods open and then close to a vee. This is the outer edge of the aura.

Now have the person focus on different emotions and measure their field simply by staying in front of them. First I have the person focus on anger.I give them a few minutes to focus and ask them to think about something that makes them angry.

I have to move forward to make the rods form a vee because anger makes the aura shrink.I then ask them to think of something that makes them very happy. Give them a few minutes and you will have to move way backwards to form the vee because happyness expands the aura way passed where the normal aura was.

Have them think of stress and love and see what happens..Have Fun....Art

 

[woof!]

There you are WOOF. I like your call sign. I started this blind dower thread after I read a post you once made about it. So, very soon I am going to put on a blind fold and dowse. I will have my wife help me by telling me what my rods are doing and to guide me away from obstacles that are in my way. Should be interesting.

You'll be able to feel the movement of the rods. The primary purpose in having someone else along is to avoid obstacles, this experiment ain't worth knocking your head on concrete or getting hit by a car.

And, for it to be blind dowsing, you need to be looking for something that's probably there somewhere, but you don't know where it is, and once you think you have a locate, you have the means to ground truth it independently. Buried utilities are often good targets.

 

[lesjcbs]

Thank you Les….There is a lot going on between your body and the rods….Take the rods and walk toward a wall….Mine will close just before I get to the wall...Art
Dowsing Rods and Aura's

Why do I mention Dowsing Rods and Aura's? I didn't know anything about Aura's and didn't believe or disbelieve in them until I came upon a web site named Dowsing Rods and Aura's. An Aura is simply a magnet field around your body. Heres a little test you can try if you have learned to use your dowsing rods

Have a person stand in front of you. Walk slowly toward them and when your rods cross you are inside of their aura.Now back up slowly until your rods open and then close to a vee. This is the outer edge of the aura.

Now have the person focus on different emotions and measure their field simply by staying in front of them. First I have the person focus on anger.I give them a few minutes to focus and ask them to think about something that makes them angry.

I have to move forward to make the rods form a vee because anger makes the aura shrink.I then ask them to think of something that makes them very happy. Give them a few minutes and you will have to move way backwards to form the vee because happyness expands the aura way passed where the normal aura was.

Have them think of stress and love and see what happens..Have Fun....Art

ARRT: I have understood aura's now for a long time. I will try it on my wife after making her mad, then happy. Just kidding about the mad part. LOL. That could be dangerous for me. LOL again.

Remember ARRt, I am one of your biggest fans and from time to time I might challenge or ask for clarity.

 

[lesjcbs]

You'll be able to feel the movement of the rods. The primary purpose in having someone else along is to avoid obstacles, this experiment ain't worth knocking your head on concrete or getting hit by a car.

And, for it to be blind dowsing, you need to be looking for something that's probably there somewhere, but you don't know where it is, and once you think you have a locate, you have the means to ground truth it independently. Buried utilities are often good targets.

WOOF LOL I really like your call sign. WOOF WOOF.

As you describe, I have already planed to dowse for things that are probably there, but I don't know exactly where. Absolutely. After all, to find something, you must go where something is. That is the first and basic rule in ANY kind of treasure hunting / metal detecting that has never been nor will ever be broken.

Les.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Hey Les….I am just throwing things out there….It just amazes me what you can do with a set of rods….All this stuff will not tell you just how it works….but it is fun….Art

 

[lesjcbs]

Hey Les….I am just throwing things out there….It just amazes me what you can do with a set of rods….All this stuff will not tell you just how it works….but it is fun….Art

ARRt; Going back to the left hand in males having the positive charge and the right hand having the negative charge, why is it that in every shot I have made and can remember, and there have been over 400 to date, I cannot remember one single time that my left rod turned first. It has always been my right rod that turns FIRST and the one which I have learned points in the direction of a target, and that direction has always been to my left. When I am directly over or very near a target, my left rod will swing and cross over the right rod. When it is at 90 degrees angle over my right rod, I stop.

QUESTION: Does my right rod move first because my right side dominates?

 

[aarthrj3811]

I don’t know that….Many dowser believe that the rods react different when they are in your aura….Some people have told me that they can see a human aura…..Art

 

[signal_line]

When I read these kind of discussions I can't help but think these people are intentionally trying to put out misleading information. That's why I say these people are skeptics in disguise. These are skeptic tactics. I feel sorry for anyone who get suckered into believing any of this.

 

[signal_line]

Dave Rishar has it right--these map dowsers are afraid to get any feedback. If you look where there was any feedback they get it wrong every time. I'm not saying map dowsing cannot possibly work, just that these guys will never be real map dowsers if they don't get daily feedback. I practice locating about three hundred days a year--I get feedback several times a day. Anything else is totally delusional. It's a case of the blind leading the blind. But the difference is they've been told how to do it and refuse. I don't know how any one can conclude anything other than this is total deception. The internet "experts" are a dime a dozen.

 

[lesjcbs]

Dave Rishar has it right--these map dowsers are afraid to get any feedback. If you look where there was any feedback they get it wrong every time. I'm not saying map dowsing cannot possibly work, just that these guys will never be real map dowsers if they don't get daily feedback. I practice locating about three hundred days a year--I get feedback several times a day. Anything else is totally delusional. It's a case of the blind leading the blind. But the difference is they've been told how to do it and refuse. I don't know how any one can conclude anything other than this is total deception. The internet "experts" are a dime a dozen.

SIG: And what kind of feedback have you received, hits or misses?

 

[lesjcbs]

Thank you Les….There is a lot going on between your body and the rods….Take the rods and walk toward a wall….Mine will close just before I get to the wall...Art
Dowsing Rods and Aura's

Why do I mention Dowsing Rods and Aura's? I didn't know anything about Aura's and didn't believe or disbelieve in them until I came upon a web site named Dowsing Rods and Aura's. An Aura is simply a magnet field around your body. Heres a little test you can try if you have learned to use your dowsing rods

Have a person stand in front of you. Walk slowly toward them and when your rods cross you are inside of their aura.Now back up slowly until your rods open and then close to a vee. This is the outer edge of the aura.

Now have the person focus on different emotions and measure their field simply by staying in front of them. First I have the person focus on anger.I give them a few minutes to focus and ask them to think about something that makes them angry.

I have to move forward to make the rods form a vee because anger makes the aura shrink.I then ask them to think of something that makes them very happy. Give them a few minutes and you will have to move way backwards to form the vee because happyness expands the aura way passed where the normal aura was.

Have them think of stress and love and see what happens..Have Fun....Art

I'll check it out.

 

[lesjcbs]

Thank you Les….There is a lot going on between your body and the rods….Take the rods and walk toward a wall….Mine will close just before I get to the wall...Art
Dowsing Rods and Aura's

Why do I mention Dowsing Rods and Aura's? I didn't know anything about Aura's and didn't believe or disbelieve in them until I came upon a web site named Dowsing Rods and Aura's. An Aura is simply a magnet field around your body. Heres a little test you can try if you have learned to use your dowsing rods

Have a person stand in front of you. Walk slowly toward them and when your rods cross you are inside of their aura.Now back up slowly until your rods open and then close to a vee. This is the outer edge of the aura.

Now have the person focus on different emotions and measure their field simply by staying in front of them. First I have the person focus on anger.I give them a few minutes to focus and ask them to think about something that makes them angry.

I have to move forward to make the rods form a vee because anger makes the aura shrink.I then ask them to think of something that makes them very happy. Give them a few minutes and you will have to move way backwards to form the vee because happyness expands the aura way passed where the normal aura was.

Have them think of stress and love and see what happens..Have Fun....Art

I checked it out and here is what happened. I just did this experiment with my wife. I first had her think of something in her past that made or makes her happy, glad, joyful etc. With my L-rods in hand, I moved towards her. My rods formed a "V" at about 4 feet away from her. I then asked her to think of things that makes her sad, angry, disgusted etc. Again I moved forward with my rods. This time they formed the "V" at about 2 feet away. An interesting thing then happened. I edged forward just ever so slowly and the rods very quickly formed a complete "X". INTERESTING.

Les

 

[aarthrj3811]

I read an article about how the Egg Dowsers in Japan had formed a Union…These guys in Japan Sex Eggs for the farmers..I read as much as I could about this practice….I went to a ranch and bought 2 dozen eggs and checked them as to if they were fertile or not….Out of the 2 dozen 5 were fertile…I can see now why farmers can save money using dowsers…Art

 

[lesjcbs]

I read an article about how the Egg Dowsers in Japan had formed a Union…These guys in Japan Sex Eggs for the farmers..I read as much as I could about this practice….I went to a ranch and bought 2 dozen eggs and checked them as to if they were fertile or not….Out of the 2 dozen 5 were fertile…I can see now why farmers can save money using dowsers…Art

Interesting. How did your dowsing rods move when it came to crossing or forming a "V" to determine which eggs were fertile or which ones were unfertile?

Les.

 

[lesjcbs]

Folks: Here is one of several URLs on dowsing unhatched eggs. Dowsing Eggs; an old time method of testing for the gender

It not only tells if the egg is fertile or not, the sex of the chick can be determined also and this has been going on for a long time now.

Let the skeptics weight in on this one. Cluck-cluck-cluck- cluck. Cock-a-doodle-do.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Dave Rishar has it right--these map dowsers are afraid to get any feedback. If you look where there was any feedback they get it wrong every time. I'm not saying map dowsing cannot possibly work, just that these guys will never be real map dowsers if they don't get daily feedback. I practice locating about three hundred days a year--I get feedback several times a day. Anything else is totally delusional. It's a case of the blind leading the blind. But the difference is they've been told how to do it and refuse. I don't know how any one can conclude anything other than this is total deception. The internet "experts" are a dime a dozen.

Yes you keep putting your methods on the internet…..Then you tell us that your dowsing only worked a few times…You may want to check your methods and see where you are going wrong….Art