✅ SOLVED Brass puck with date stamp

[Bama Billy]

Searching a permission I have and found this today, no clue what it is. The spot is near some train tracks so not sure if it’s maybe train related? I assumed the 1950 was the year, any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[buck8point]

That is a Benchmark. Its a Survey Marker usually imbedded in Concrete.

 

[HuntinDog]

I don't know what it is, But it's pretty cool.

Edit: The bench mark idea is what my first thought was though.

 

[buck8point]

It may have been marking a benchmark point for a "Right Of Way" hence ROW.
ASHD might also stand for Alabama State Highway Department
Most Likely Bronze also..

 

[Bama Billy]

Thanks so much guys, mystery solved

 

[Clay Diggins]

It's a survey pin. It's illegal to tamper with or take benchmarks or survey pins in all states. Lucky for you Alabama goes relatively light on survey destruction, $500 fine and six months at hard labor. You could come out the other end of that in better physical shape and about $500 lighter.

If you hadn't made a public post you would probably not really have to worry about being caught. Considering your public confession with self provided evidence it might be a good idea to put it back exactly where you found it and hope nobody noticed.

Doing a dependent resurvey is very expensive but would probably be required if there was a future dispute about that boundary. Being that the railroad is involved I'm guessing the private land owner will be the one taking it in the shorts in that dispute.

Survey pins are an important part of defining land ownership over time. You will find survey pins in all states. Please leave these pins where you find them.

 

[Anduril]

It's actually a survey station (which I guess is sort of like a more traditional survey marker, of sorts).
Stationing is a survey method used for road layout and construction and has an arbitrary starting point.

The first row of numbers tells us the marker is (10*100 feet) + 59.8 = 1059.8 feet from the arbitrary starting point.
I'm guessing the 2nd row of numbers is the perpendicular offset from the line described above, perhaps with "1" indicating direction. (?)
R.O.W. probably is "Right of Way", but the rest of the text I'm not sure about.

My understanding is that these markers really don't have much of a use once the road is built, although they could be indicated on other types of surveys.
I doubt anyone is going to arrest you for disturbing this kind of marker.
However, as was pointed out, it is technically illegal to intentionally disturb survey markers and monuments.

 

[Bama Billy]

So what you guys are saying is that nearly 70 years ago somebody went through the trouble and expense to survey this property. After that they cast a bronze puck to stamp all the info on it AND THEN they buried it a foot in the ground? That makes zero sense to me. Also do you really think anybody would get 6 months hard labor for digging up something on private property?? I’m all for doing things the right way but I can’t help but think you guys are being a little extreme on this one. I couldn’t be worried less about a fine or hard labor.

 

[creskol]

So what you guys are saying is that nearly 70 years ago somebody went through the trouble and expense to survey this property. After that they cast a bronze puck to stamp all the info on it AND THEN they buried it a foot in the ground? That makes zero sense to me. Also do you really think anybody would get 6 months hard labor for digging up something on private property?? I’m all for doing things the right way but I can’t help but think you guys are being a little extreme on this one. I couldn’t be worried less about a fine or hard labor.

Unfortunately, not everything makes perfect sense. It is what it is ... but the how, whens, whys, and wheres of the story may never be determined.

 

[Anduril]

So what you guys are saying is that nearly 70 years ago somebody went through the trouble and expense to survey this property. After that they cast a bronze puck to stamp all the info on it AND THEN they buried it a foot in the ground? That makes zero sense to me. Also do you really think anybody would get 6 months hard labor for digging up something on private property?? I’m all for doing things the right way but I can’t help but think you guys are being a little extreme on this one. I couldn’t be worried less about a fine or hard labor.

This isn't the kind of monument that qualifies for penalties, as far as I know.
The markers and monuments that you can't (or shouldn't move) are clearly marked as such.

Anyway, as for how the marker got to where it was found, there are several possibilities.
One is that it was simply covered over during construction of the road. (i.e., in the way, no longer needed, and not worth recovering beforehand). Just bulldozed over.
Another possibility is that leftover fill dirt from the original road construction (or even its later re-construction) made it's way onto the property where it was eventually found.

Also, this wasn't a "specially cast" bronze puck. It's a blank puck that was hand-stamped in the field.
They probably had dozens of them on the survey truck.

For that matter, I suppose (although it seems unlikely) that this was a mis-stamped puck, and whoever screwed it up simply whizzed it off in some random direction like a Frisbee, never to be seen again. Except you found it!

But to your point, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.
It's not quite as important a marker as say..., the Four Corners Monument.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Corners_Monument


Edit: I should also add that occasionally you'll come across something called a "Witness Marker".
These often look similar, but they are not marking the original point.
Either the original marker got disturbed, or maybe a building, freeway, man-made lake, etc... covered it over.
In that case, the surveyors will erect a new marker (i.e., a witness marker) that is surveyed to a known exact position from the original marker.

 

[Bama Billy]

This isn't the kind of monument that qualifies for penalties, as far as I know.
The markers and monuments that you can't (or shouldn't move) are clearly marked as such.

Anyway, as for how the marker got to where it was found, there are several possibilities.
One is that it was simply covered over during construction of the road. (i.e., in the way, no longer needed, and not worth recovering beforehand). Just bulldozed over.
Another possibility is that leftover fill dirt from the original road construction (or even its later re-construction) made it's way onto the property where it was eventually found.

Also, this wasn't a "specially cast" bronze puck. It's a blank puck that was hand-stamped in the field.
They probably had dozens of them on the survey truck.

For that matter, I suppose (although it seems unlikely) that this was a mis-stamped puck, and whoever screwed it up simply whizzed it off in some random direction like a Frisbee, never to be seen again. Except you found it!

But to your point, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.
It's not quite as important a marker as say..., the Four Corners Monument.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Corners_Monument


Edit: I should also add that occasionally you'll come across something called a "Witness Marker".
These often look similar, but they are not marking the original point.
Either the original marker got disturbed, or maybe a building, freeway, man-made lake, etc... covered it over.
In that case, the surveyors will erect a new marker (i.e., a witness marker) that is surveyed to a known exact position from the original marker.

Now all that makes plenty of sense. Although let me add this, the property hasn’t had any dirt work at this spot in at least 50yrs AND the nearest road is close to a half mile away. This spot is on the very back corner of the property. Seems like a very odd place for the state to put it, I assumed it was dropped by someone at some point and that it wasn’t in its correct spot when I found it.

 

[buck8point]

The Benchmark Puck would have been securely imbedded in a concrete pedestal and visible above ground level if it was still a viable survey marker.
It most likely got bulldozed or something like that, and was lost and no longer in use anyway..
Cool find none the less.

 

[Anduril]

I'm not a surveyor, but the reason I'm somewhat familiar with these markers is that I once worked for a company that had some property in an industrial area we needed to do a vertical-control survey (for building height in the path of an airport runway a mile away).

The quarter-section marker had been disturbed causing the surveyors to bring in a control line from a much further distance (a spike in a railroad - which back then only had one track, not two).
Anyway, in the process, we discovered that there was a 40-foot section of property between us and our neighbor that was intended for a future water main.
But that was back in the early 1900's, and in the intervening years, so many other water main right-of-ways were re-zoned or abandoned making the installation of any water main impossible.

State law allowed us to divide the abandoned ROW with our neighbor, for the small price of the survey (which we were doing anyway), and a deed modification.

Which brings me to my point...
Any chance that 50-70 years ago there were any thoughts about running a road (water main, or whatever?) back where you found the marker?
Maybe that project was abandoned, and all that's left are those disks?
(And if so, you could walk off 1059.8 feet along your property line and see if you can find the starting point disk?) Just a thought.

I mention it because you said you found the marker in an odd location, ("the very back corner of the property").
Maybe.. exactly where you might expect to find such things, assuming the project (road, water main, etc..) could not be re-routed to avoid private property.
They would encroach only into the easement, or nibble away at your property perimeter. ??

Pure speculation, of course.

 

[buck8point]

Considering all the possibilities on how the Benchmark came to be located where it was found by a detectorist, the very least viable possibility to me, is that a detectorist whom not even knowing what he had found, would endeavor to the formidable task of demolishing a solid concrete pedestal with the "puck" imbedded into it, just to remove it from the location, and post it online to see what he had found. Clearly the Benchmark had been demolished by some other process, wether intentional or not, and was no longer a viable survey marker for quite some time.

Just my opinion of course.

 

[Clay Diggins]

It's not a PLSS benchmark - those are very distinguishable and the caps are often mounted in concrete. It's a Right Of Way Survey marker placed by the Alabama State Highway Department. Being an official government survey marker it falls under the same Alabama State laws about tampering with a survey marker as a PLSS benchmark would. The difference is a tampering with a PLSS benchmark would also put you in hot water under federal law.

Most survey markers are mounted on a metal stake, usually a length of rebar, no concrete involved or required. Not having seen the back of this one it would be impossible to know how it was attached to the ground originally but by looking up the survey contract at the Hwy Dept would tell you how this was supposed to be mounted. The survey cap identifies the "pin" (stake) that is the actual survey point. The pin is likely still in place but when the cap is removed it's difficult to impossible to identify what the stake is for. That's why it's illegal to tamper with these markers and it's most often why expensive dependent resurveys are required if there is a question about the boundary.

If the original intent of the marker was to define a work area for road construction it would have been a plain unmarked stake. Actual Survey monuments have locational, survey agency and survey purpose marked on them like this one. They are designed to be kept in place to mark the actual survey points. Here is an example of a standard federal survey station stake.

 

[buck8point]

I think the point being missed here is that clearly, the Bronze Survey disk, was apparently not connected to any Spike, or Concrete Pillar when found, and was therefore no longer a viable Benchmark, Survey Point of Reference, or whatever it was originally intended to be, when found by the original poster.
Maybe he can confirm this.
He clearly did not know what it was, and though I doubt that a detectorist would have willfully destroyed anything they found in the ground.

Again, Just my opinion.

 

[HuntinDog]

One near me

 

[buck8point]

One near me

Yup...
Thats an Elevation Benchmark. I have several near me as well.

I used to Hunt these for fun...

https://www.geocaching.com/mark/

https://www.geocaching.com/mark/nearest.aspx

 

[Bama Billy]

I think the point being missed here is that clearly, the Bronze Survey disk, was apparently not connected to any Spike, or Concrete Pillar when found, and was therefore no longer a viable Benchmark, Survey Point of Reference, or whatever it was originally intended to be, when found by the original poster.
Maybe he can confirm this.
He clearly did not know what it was, and though I doubt that a detectorist would have willfully destroyed anything they found in the ground.

Again, Just my opinion.

I would indeed NEVER deface or destroyed anyone’s property or that of the government be it local or federal. Im a veteran of this fine country. It wasn’t attached to anything at all, I flipped the plug and it was stuck to the bottom and I rechecked the hole and got nothing. I’m not arguing WHAT it is just that it wasn’t where it belonged. I doubt the state would do all that surveying and then just dig a hole and throw it in there. In 1950 that sucker would have been awfully hard to find.

 

[buck8point]

I would indeed NEVER deface or destroyed anyone’s property or that of the government be it local or federal. Im a veteran of this fine country. It wasn’t attached to anything at all, I flipped the plug and it was stuck to the bottom and I rechecked the hole and got nothing. I’m not arguing WHAT it is just that it wasn’t where it belonged. I doubt the state would do all that surveying and then just dig a hole and throw it in there. In 1950 that sucker would have been awfully hard to find.

Thats Exactly what I read into your original post, thanks for confirming.
Anyway you slice it, you found a relic of something in the ground that was lost long ago. Isnt that what detecting is all about?
Congrats on the Nice, and Interesting Find.