Buckle ?

[tinpan]

Hi All this tongue part of a buckle is from where ?

tinpan

 

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[nhbenz]

Wow, this listing was for the same piece, but images don't seem to show anymore; California Gold Rush Pre Civil War Cast Miners Tongue for Belt Plate RARE | eBay

From what I find it is a gold prospector's buckle, and a rare one at that, from 1850-55.

 

[nhbenz]

Oh, here's a good link; Western Bitters News: The Real Holy Grail of Buckles?

 

[nhbenz]

Huh, I'm just surprised no one else commented on this buckle. At one point there were said to be 10 known of. I'd nominate this for Banner, which I don't do often.

 

[Silver Searcher]

Hi All this tongue part of a buckle is from where ?

tinpan

Heh Tinny how are you cool buckle shall have to dig into this one a bit more, sounds a bit special.

SS

 

[Silver Searcher]

When did you find this buckle Mate?

SS

 

[Silver Searcher]

Hi All this tongue part of a buckle is from where ?

tinpan

This type belt plate continues to be retrieved from the old gold mines in California. Unusual 1850 period cast belt plate, and the buckle was sold as a package deal when the miners bought their mining equipment. Apparently also called the Miner's buckle, or Star of David buckle.

Sounds like a Banner find to me to.

SS

 

[tinpan]

Thanks for the replies As usual I only managed to find half a buckle and i did try to find the other half . Will do a post about the buckle on the weekend

tinpan

 

[danimal03]

nice relic

as it has been pointed out, that is a rare 'miner buckle' belt plate circa 1850's. A friend alerted me to your post. He knows of one other like yours found in Australia. I found a tongue like yours in late 2007 in the western US and it is one of my prized finds. I searched for months looking for the wreath but alas; I was never able to find it. Actually the wreath portion is exceedingly rare as there are many more tongues known than wreaths. I was finally get a dug wreath online that the seller had no idea what it went to. The key to a match is the little 'squiggle' on the neck. I was finally able to acquire a wreath in 2013. Your tongue portion is in especially fine condition as is the other that was found there. There are varying degrees of detail on these plates. It appears some of these are later generation castings as the detail gets blurrier over time. Yours looks like a later generation, like a 3rd-4th generation cast but that is just a guess. The first generation casts have a lot of detail and are generally a little larger. Also, be aware if you are trying to buy a wreath, they are not all interchangeable. I got lucky with my 'marriage' as they fit nicely. I attached a pic of my complete example for educational purposes only. Good luck finding the wreath. And congratulations on finding an extraordinary piece of history that witnessed two historic events.

 

[cw0909]

very cool, go back and find the rest of it, banner find

 

[cw0909]

very cool, go back and find the rest of it, could we get and img of the back too

 

[cw0909]

tinpan could/would you give us the general area of this find, been reading up on that buckle
pretty rare in AU' some history of AU gold rush
Australian gold rushes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[danimal03]

rare piece

just to be specific, your belt plate tongue was made for the California Gold Rush market and likely saw use there. For example, the mountains in the background represent the Sierras. The miner on your tongue is depicted holding a shovel in one hand, and a piece of gold in the other. Then the actual miner who had it went to the Australian gold fields and brought his belt plate with him and lost/discarded it there. And yes, it is a banner find. A "CS" tongue would make banner all day long and this tongue is infinitely more rare, and very, very historical as well. You may want your post moved over to 'today's finds' to get the recognition it deserves. I relooked at your image and your tongue is unusual in that it has decent detail (more than I could see on my phone) yet has a seemingly narrower belt loop. I would associate a narrow loop with sloppier detail, but for whatever reason, yours came out this way. I would hazard to guess there are about 20-30 of these tongues known to the small collecting community. The wreaths are exceptionally rare though. I know of only approx. 10 of the wreaths and it took me 7 years to find one for sale. The ebay link referenced above was mine. I sold it about 2 years ago as I didn't dig it and the one I dug was better. Again, congratulations!

 

[Silver Searcher]

I believe another one of these buckles was found earlier in the year, in Australia. Tinny you need to post a story with the buckle to make the banner, and post it in todays finds.

SS

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Tinpan, please send a PM to our fellow T-Net member Kuger. He and some friends are writing a book about the "Gold Rush era" miner's buckles. He is very knowledgeable about them.

 

[CC Hunter]

Your find there Tinpan is indeed a rare and highly desirable piece, being the center tongue half of a cast brass two-piece Tongue & Wreath belt buckle from the 1850's. This particular design features a Gold Miner holding a shovel, along with an outstretched hand thought to hold a gold nugget. The background detail shows a sunrise over tall mountain peaks, a 6-pointed star, as well as cactus and shrubs in the foreground. Both the tongue and wreath show a unique detail on the connecting bridge portion, of a scroll line or swirl, as well as decorative dots. The cast Gold Miner buckle is the only known Tongue & Wreath buckle to ever carry this scroll detail on the bridge portion, and positively identifies the correct matching wreath for these particular buckles. There have been some theories regarding the 6-point star detail on the cast Gold Miner buckles, as possibly being a connection to Jewish symbolism. There is nothing yet conclusive to prove or disprove these theories. A number of stamped T&W buckles of the period, featuring embossed company advertising names, are nearly all attributed to Jewish merchants. The cast brass California state seal T&W buckle of the era, also known as the "Eureka" buckle, is attributed to being made for and distributed by the firm of William Taussig & Co. (Wilhelm Toysck), a Jewish immigrant from Europe, operating supply offices in New York and San Francisco. Over a period of years, I have collected a vast research file attributed to the history of his family and business, for a future printed work devoted to this.

There are four examples of portions of the cast brass Tongue & Wreath Gold Miner buckles in my collection of 1850's belt buckles. Two are wreaths dug by a personal friend. One is a tongue dug from a separate location by another close friend. Then there is a perfect wreath dug by my father on a site we searched together years ago.

One of the examples from the collection is shown here, a marriage of a two halves dug from separate sites:




The information and links already provided herein are quite factual. Danimal has thoughtfully provided additional insight on his own recovery and gathered information.


Through extensive research on the Tongue & Wreath (T&W) buckles popular during the 1850's, and in widespread use among the mining booms of California, Australia, and other areas, considerable data has been compiled. This particular style of cast Tongue & Wreath buckle depicting the Gold Miner appears to have originated in the United States. Conclusive information regarding where and when these buckles were made, and by what individuals or company is unknown at this point. There is a similar design showing a Gold Miner along with nature scenery, on a die stamped T&W buckle made of thin rolled brass with matching plain outer wreath. From the study of other T&W buckles of various designs of the period that also take the exact same outer wreath, often featuring patriotic eagle designs, we may conclude that particular stamped Miner Buckle was very likely manufactured in the U.S. at one of the major brass milling and stamping centers such as noted in New England in the 19th Century.

As mentioned in an earlier post, there is indeed another cast brass Gold Miner buckle known to have been found recently in Australia. This example was excavated in the Bendigo area earlier last year, and is another stunning find of nearly flawless condition and detail. The discovery has been logged into my research files here pertaining to Australia recoveries. The find is featured in the following link:

Treasure Tim strikes it lucky again! | Miners Den Australia


A surprising number of American made and manufactured T&W buckles have turned up in the Australia goldfields. In my own rather extensive buckle collection, there is one stamped buckle tongue featuring an American style patriotic eagle, dug in Australia, that was purchased a number of years ago. There are also T&W buckles of the 1850's featuring Australian themes and company names, which on occasion turn up in mining areas in Western America. In my own collection, I have a T&W buckle featuring a British crown along with the name and address of a Melbourne clothing supply firm. This is a personal recovery, dug in an 1850's site.

There is considerably more to add to the subject on these historic recoveries than can be covered in a few simple paragraphs here.

In closing I will affirm this also to be a Banner Worthy Find.


CC Hunter

 

[tinpan]

Hi All the rare part has me in a little bit of shock and i am aware of the other found in Victoria . . This buckle was about 40 miles from the Bendigo one on the Castlemaine Golds Fields
Numerous other relics have been recovered by myself and 2 others .Big thanks and I will take a few days to edit and find all info required in a post ,which i hope to post Thursday your time .

tinpan

 

[Davers]

I say BANNER Find , As I never knew these existed ; being in the SE USA.
Davers

 

[Davers]

Did You Dig this piece or are you just asking about it?

I just went back to like the buckle picture, and noticed the OP was from the UK so i'm
wondering if the op actually Dug this piece or is he/she asking about it , wanting to buy it or maybe just curious about it.

I noticed some were telling the OP to " Go back and find the other half"
Is that possible?
Did it make its way to Europe somehow and was dug there?

Nice Buckle Anyhow.
Davers

 

[Silver Searcher]

I just went back to like the buckle picture, and noticed the OP was from the UK so i'm
wondering if the op actually Dug this piece or is he/she asking about it , wanting to buy it or maybe just curious about it.

I noticed some were telling the OP to " Go back and find the other half"
Is that possible?
Did it make its way to Europe somehow and was dug there?

Nice Buckle Anyhow.
Davers

The OP is from Australia, were other buckles of this type have been found. Tinpan can only wish he was British

SS