California Mining Laws Info for Noobies (like me)

n01d3x

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I'm new to prospecting\mining, less than a year actually. I have done a ton of research to figure out what I can and can not do here in CA. I have posted and have seen other noobs post questions on the legality of different types of gold mining in CA. This has all been posted before, but figured I would share what I have found in one thread. Honestly it would be nice if there were a sticky or something detailing the mining laws for all gold bearing states. Either way here is what I have found and my opinions, feel free to correct or challenge anything!

This is SB-637 Suction Dredge Mining Permits
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201520160SB637
This whole bill is about, as the title implies, suction dredging. This is where the "confusion" is:
Sec 13172.5. (a) For purposes of this section, the use of any vacuum or suction dredge equipment, also known as suction dredging, is the use of a mechanized or motorized system for removing or assisting in the removal of, or the processing of, material from the bed, bank, or channel of a river, stream, or lake in order to recover minerals.
This sounds like it requires a permit for any motorized mining at all. If you read through the whole bill, it all has to do with, as the title of the bill implies, suction dredging. At no point does this bill mention High Banking or anything other than suction dredging. It is my belief that this does not require a permit for running a motorized High Banker. Note that no where in this bill does it say anything about gas or electric motors, just motors period. If we were to make it mean no motorized mining equipment at all, then why do we not include "mechanized" mining as well? One could argue that a stream sluice, rocker box or anything else is mechanical. Heck even panning has a level of mechanics to it. I know that all sounds absurd, but that's my point.

This is Fish and Game Code Sections 1600-1616.
https://nrm.dfg.ca.gov/FileHandler.ashx?DocumentID=3784
Section 1602 is what we are concerned about:
1602. (a) An entity may not substantially divert or obstruct the natural flow of, or substantially
change or use any material from the bed, channel, or bank of, any river, stream, or lake, or deposit or
dispose of debris, waste, or other material containing crumbled, flaked, or ground pavement where it
may pass into any river, stream, or lake, unless all of the following occur:
The keyword here is substantially. I do not consider me shoveling into a High Banker running off of a 2" gas powered water pump substantial. I'm sure you can argue the opposite here, but this is my opinion.

And finally CA actually does have regulations in place for high banking:
Codes Display Text
3964. No placer mining operator shall mine by the placer process on any stream or on the watershed of any stream tributary directly or indirectly to the Sacramento River or the San Joaquin River without taking both of the following precautions to prevent pollution of the stream by the effluent from his or her operations:
(a) Constructing a settling pond or ponds of sufficient size to permit the clarification of water used in the mining processes before the water is discharged into the stream.
(b) Mixing with the effluent from mining operations aluminum sulphate and lime, or an equivalent clarifying substance which will cause the solid material in the effluent to coagulate and thus avoid rendering the water in the stream unfit for domestic water supply purposes.

So there you have it, everything I could find on this subject and the actual laws etc, that helped me form my opinion. I printed out a copy of each and keep it in my pack. I hope to never have to argue this with anyone in uniform, but at least I know my rights and the laws. Well, I think I do anyway, lol. Long story short, I do not believe that there is anything illegal about running a high banker (or anything other than a suction dredge) in California.
 

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gldguy1

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Thank you this is good stuff. I was told that a high banker isn't illegal but needs a permit and currently there are no permits being given out. Does that sound correct to you?
 

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n01d3x

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No, I do not believe you need a permit. You can read through those laws and see what you think. The only other two agencies I think have anything to do with us is BLM and the Water Board. BLM is federal, so they follow federal laws regarding mining. I am not aware of any federal laws that would impact high banking. The Water Board has permit requirements for waste water discharge, which could come into play. However, I work for a large waste water treatment plant that actually has that discharge permit and imho that permit does not apply to anything that's not a substantial discharge.
 

chlsbrns

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You do need a permit to highbank in California. It costs at least $1,120 per location. Fines for violations can be as high as $25,000 per day.
 

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n01d3x

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Can you post a link to the requirements for the permit you speak of?
 

chlsbrns

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Take a look at this screenshot. After it opens click the image a second time to view it full screen.
 

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n01d3x

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Thank you and I'll look into that further, but that is a FAQ, I need to see/find the law.

Also, it would be interesting to know why the Water Board told the guy, in the Hi Banking section of this board, that he didn't need a permit.
 

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ClaimStake

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no permits are required for highbanking.

and a hookah or a generator for lights or whatever else is still legal.

within public land ie, USF or BLM.
 

mendoAu

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I was kinda surprised when I googled a few words to find an up to date answer. Sure is a sad state when even a miner can't figure out the rules pertaining to his profession. I found NO difinitive answer. I did stumble onto this
CUT AND PASTE FROM A FACEBOOK PAGE:

American Mining Rights Association
February 16, 2016 ·

Update on California, SB637 and permits for any motorized mining in California:

SB637 was passed and signed into law by Gov. Brown Jan 2nd. It states you need a permit from the CA Water Board who then states you need a 402 or 404 permit from the Army Corps of Engineers. Is this confusing yet? It states you can be fined, equipment confiscated and even jailed if you fail to obtain this (unobtainable) permit from them.

We all know the intent of the bill is to delay, delay and delay some more and there is no actual intention to issue permits. As an example, look to the original moratorium on suction dredging back in 2009, it was supposed to expire. Did it? Of course not.

Well, let us describe what we are doing, and it is time to go public with this.

We physically went to the CA Water Board in Rancho Cordova a few weeks ago and met in person with the supervisor in charge of all permitting for the Water Board. Also in this meeting was the Mining Inspector for the State Water Board. We asked them specifically "we are small miners and are here to get our permits to suction dredge our Federal Mining Claims here in California, what do we need to do right now to get one".

A blank look came across their faces. They did state they had "heard" the bill had passed but had zero direction from anyone on implementing this procedure of issuing permits as required by the new law. They were trying to tell everyone to "go to our website and read the frequently asked questions". We know........laughable.

Well, since we were actively involved in trying to stop this horrendous bill along with about 500 of our mining friends, we explained in detail (for over an hour) exactly what the CA Water Board was supposed to do and that is to issue permits for mining. We agreed to meet back with them at a later date once we met with the Army Corps of Engineers.

We then went to the Army Corps of Engineers in Sacramento and met with them in person and filled out the paperwork for a 404 permit/waiver to dredge with a 3" dredge on "The Office" AMRA claim in Mariposa County, as well as several other locations and counties in the state. There are no endangered species, no legacy mercury and no fish in any of these locations. The Army Corps by the way, does not answer to the Department of the Interior and Sally Jewel like the EPA. They answer to the United States Army and they don't appear to be supportive of all this over-regulation. We have requested a waiver and subsequent talks with them have proven to be very favorable that this will happen.

So, after the Army Corps issue's the waiver, we will then go back to the Water Board and demand a permit to dredge and run our mining equipment. When they deny the permit, this exposes this law to be purely prohibitive in nature and blatantly illegal.

We do know there are a few out there who will say "we don't discharge and therefore no permit is needed". Yup, we agree we don't discharge and there is a net removal when a dredge operates. We remove 98% of the mercury (if present) and 99% of the lead, nothing is added. But, this bill, although not passed with the public truly represented (there was 25 to one in opposition to it) was in fact passed, and was in fact signed into law by the Governor. Just saying we don't add pollutants will not stop you from being cited in CA, having your equipment taken and even jailed. Try telling DFG, who is already out there telling miners they can't run anything other than a teeny-tiny shovel and a baby pan to mine, that they cannot cite you because you don't add anything.

If the Water Board issue's permits after we produce a waiver, then lets dredge. If they don't, it will result in litigation and fundamentally, it will be proven this bill is nothing short of a prohibition on mining.

The reason we are making this public, is we encourage everyone to call the Water Board immediately and demand a permit to run your water pump, your dredge, or your highbanker. Here is their number:

916-323-5598 .

Document who you talked to, the date and the content of the conversation (what they told you).

Then call the Army Corps of Engineers and ask for a 404 waiver to run your dredge (we recommend a 3 of 4"). They will send you, or direct you to their 404 permit on-line. Fill this out and if you are an AMRA member, list the Office claim (list the creek it is on). If you are a member and would like to list another one of our claims in CA, send us an email and we will help you. [email protected]

If you are a small miner and not an AMRA member, list your Federal Mining Claim.

U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, Sacramento District · Phone
1325 J St Frnt, Sacramento, CA 95814
(916) 557-5100

Document everything, who, what, when, where as you communicate with these people. Remember folks, the Army Corps is NOT the enemy and has actively been working with the small miners.

This is primarily targeted directly at the Water Board. Lets prove they won't issue any permits.

Obviously, there is much, much more going on behind the scenes we are working on, but this is the first step in exposing this horrendous bill for being the prohibition on small mining that it actually is.
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dave wiseman

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Posted:No fishing..No hunting..No picking flowers..No smoking..Keep off the grass..No parking..No trespassing..No dredging..No posting of signs..No nothing..We..welcome your business..Now go home..State of California.
 

ClaimStake

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I was kinda surprised when I googled a few words to find an up to date answer. Sure is a sad state when even a miner can't figure out the rules pertaining to his profession. I found NO difinitive answer. I did stumble onto this
.........

the enemy?

governors Arnold Schwarzenegger and Jerry Brown.

they should be drawn and quartered.

traitors!

also don't worry about DWR. the only permit that WAS in question has to do with waste discharge (muddy water and farm runoff).

further why should dredgers need a permit? it doesn't cost the state anything. so wouldn't that be considered "unreasonable fines and fees"?!?
why was it permitted in the first place? just because lawmakers said so?

I thought it was for the people "by" the people. must have missed the memo.

here's an idea, how about so many inches worth of dredge per so many feet of water way. for example no more than 8" per 1000ft (4+4, 2+2+4, eccetera). simple.
than F&G can complain that it "costs" time thus money to enforce. if it were done this way even the enviro nutz couldn't complain.

cleanup and pollution. littering is littering I don't care who you are.
and boats are always just so clean.

/end rant
 

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ClaimStake

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first it must be clarified, the "act" of highbanking, that is taking materials from above the high water line IS illegal. using a water pump IS NOT. dumping it into a sluice or better yet a bucket that then drains into a sluice also IS NOT.

a Highbanker = Power sluice.

regulations are not laws.

just because an agency puts forth a "regulation" does not make it law.

do not trust anything from Fish and Game.

what you can trust is that they will harass you over it.

if they try to cite you with "their" regulation. tell them they MUST provide a "code of law" to back up their "claim".

if they can't (they won't) tell them they will be arrested and "personally" sued for professional misconduct and misuse of authority (this brings the agent outside the agency, can't be protected by the "gang") sue the agent not the agency.

they'll say BS you're coming with us.

at this point it's up to you. stand for your rights or lose them.
remember they are mall cops. agents have no real authority.
they must call LEO in order to arrest you.

NEVER RESIST ARREST. (they will need a warrant to do so)

if they tell you that you are being "detained" just ignore them and keep doing what you are doing.

detention is "impediment of progress" NO ONE has the authority to "detain" you.

don't be guilty until proven innocent.
 

chlsbrns

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first it must be clarified, the "act" of highbanking, that is taking materials from above the high water line IS illegal. using a water pump IS NOT. dumping it into a sluice or better yet a bucket that then drains into a sluice also IS NOT.

a Highbanker = Power sluice.

regulations are not laws.

just because an agency puts forth a "regulation" does not make it law.

do not trust anything from Fish and Game.

what you can trust is that they will harass you over it.

if they try to cite you with "their" regulation. tell them they MUST provide a "code of law" to back up their "claim".

if they can't (they won't) tell them they will be arrested and "personally" sued for professional misconduct and misuse of authority (this brings the agent outside the agency, can't be protected by the "gang") sue the agent not the agency.

they'll say BS you're coming with us.

at this point it's up to you. stand for your rights or lose them.
remember they are mall cops. agents have no real authority.
they must call LEO in order to arrest you.

NEVER RESIST ARREST. (they will need a warrant to do so)

if they tell you that you are being "detained" just ignore them and keep doing what you are doing.

detention is "impediment of progress" NO ONE has the authority to "detain" you.

don't be guilty until proven innocent.

Definition of regulation. 1 : the act of regulating : the state of being regulated. 2a : an authoritative rule dealing with details or procedure safety regulations b : a rule or order issued by an executive authority or regulatory agency of a government and having the force of law.
 

chlsbrns

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"FORCE OF LAW"

as in enforcing "THE LAW"

the "REAL LAW"

california water code;California Water Code - WAT § 13260 | FindLaw
nothing about a highbanker in there.

and the part about mining is for the big boys not us little guys.
unless you plan on using some cyanide or mercury.

Go high-banking! Some people have to learn the hard way! Don't forget your gloves!
 

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