"CALL BEFORE YOU DIG" - SAFETY TIP

[HALO12]

I just received a Lesche Sampson Mini T handle Serrated 18" digger. The entire unit is, of course, metal. For added safety I am considering coating the T handle, handle shank, and foot steps with liquid plastic electrical insulator. This is the same material used to coat hand tools (such as wire cutters, pliers, etc.) for electrical insulation. The chances of digging into live ground electrical wires are probably not high, but I like the idea of added safety. Hope this helps someone else, maybe it will save a life.

 

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[fistfulladirt]

That is a great tip, but Miss Dig does not normally locate privately-owned buried electric, (or CATV or telephone for that matter), at least here in Michigan.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I have been at this for 35+ yrs, working every type of land imaginable. And in that time, have NEVER hit a wire (that I knew of ??) I don't think they put those wires *that* shallow on public land (parks, schools, etc...). I guess in someone's front yard of a house, they might put their wires that power lawn sprinkler timers, or something, shallow? But in all my years, I have never enountered such a thing.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

I have worked telecom for 40 years, I located copper, fiber and electrical lines for 15 years of that time. I can tell you yes they are that shallow, especially copper phone lines and some electrical lines. I worked closely with Call Before You Dig.

One call will locate all utility lines between street and building, but you can't call with out the owner knowing, they will be mad if you do as contractors will be marking with flags and paint all utilities both in ground and concrete or asphalt.

Any one who damages a utility line is responsible for cost of repair if the utility company wants to persue it. I am speaking from experience.....

Just FYI..

 

[gunsil]

The plastic coating on most pliers and wire cutters is for comfort of use, not electrical insulation. If you were to hit a major trunk power line the plastic dip would not keep the juice from zapping you. Also the plastic dip isn't very strong to abrasion and it will rapidly wear off where your foot presses down due to the abrasive action of dirt on your shoes.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I have worked telecom for 40 years, I located copper, fiber and electrical lines for 15 years of that time. I can tell you yes they are that shallow, especially copper phone lines and some electrical lines. I worked closely with Call Before You Dig.

One call will locate all utility lines between street and building, but you can't call with out the owner knowing, they will be mad if you do as contractors will be marking with flags and paint all utilities both in ground and concrete or asphalt.

Any one who damages a utility line is responsible for cost of repair if the utility company wants to persue it. I am speaking from experience.....

Just FYI..

Th'r, thanx for the input, from your job's perspective. But just curious: How is it, that thousands of us md'rs, detect every day, at a myriad of types of land sites, and ........ no one calls the utility co's in compliance with those "call before you dig" mandates. I mean, anytime anyone sees such a pamphlet or brochure, they're always taken in context of meaning deep underground utilities, like pipes, sewer lines, and deemed to be heavy equipment (tractors, backhoes, etc..).

Certainly not every house wife who goes out to weed her garden needs to "call before you dig" ?

 

[kuger]

.........Tom..there is no required depth to put in phone drops,fiber,or even main trunk line,in most area's........maybe its never happened to you,its just stating that if you do,you are on the hook for damages,and with Fiber optic,get the right one,and you may be filing for bankruptcy next year.....just sayin

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Kuger, then do-tell, do YOU go to the utility co (PG&E or whatever) each time before you go detecting? Afterall, you "....may be the one filing for bankruptcy next year" .... right? (to quote from a mighty-and-wise one). Or do you know anyone who calls the electric/utility co before they dig each penny? (afterall, they don't want to file for bankruptcy).

Just wondering why, in practical terms, no one seems to be doing this, in-lieu of the "certain fiscal calamities" you're now ascribing to this horrible activity of ours.

 

[kuger]

Kuger, then do-tell, do YOU go to the utility co (PG&E or whatever) each time before you go detecting? Afterall, you "....may be the one filing for bankruptcy next year" .... right? (to quote from a mighty-and-wise one). Or do you know anyone who calls the electric/utility co before they dig each penny? (afterall, they don't want to file for bankruptcy).

Just wondering why, in practical terms, no one seems to be doing this, in-lieu of the "certain fiscal calamities" you're now ascribing to this horrible activity of ours.

.Yes,I happen to know a tiny bit about that trade,no I do not call,nor was I saying you should.I was merely pointing out that the ramifications of damaging a Fiber Optic line can run into dollar figures that you nor I would likely be able to pay.I dont know perhaps you are a very wealthy person,and your right it wouldnt cause you great financial strain!

 

[HutSiteDigger]

yah you def. gotta becareful mainly with these new detectors getting deeper signals but normally you can tell if you are experienced with your detector that it is a electrical line, i know on my Fisher 1266x anything electrical makes the detector go nuts it will give you a interference signal like if you were next to a radio tower or big power line...

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

I an not telling anyone to call one call, but I guarantee you there are 10s of 1,000s of copper lines buried 6 to 12 inches deep in peoples yards. I have worked telecom since I was 25 and I am 64 now, I located cables day in and day out for 15 years for a telecom company, we had fiber in the ground usually buried 4 ft, but there ewere places where it was under 18 inches due to erosion.

 

[kuger]

I an not telling anyone to call one call, but I guarantee you there are 10s of 1,000s of copper lines buried 6 to 12 inches deep in peoples yards. I have worked telecom since I was 25 and I am 64 now, I located cables day in and day out for 15 years for a telecom company, we had fiber in the ground usually buried 4 ft, but there ewere places where it was under 18 inches due to erosion.

hey TH,since I am a know it all....what does the average fiber cut cost??

 

[fistfulladirt]

I work for telecom now, (largest in the world), and the contractor does not locate buried service drop anymore, locaters don't have the time. Thank you job security.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Depends on size of fiber and how much fiber was damage. Also depends on network, com I worked for some customers had guarantee of max time down and we had to pay all time over.

For us a small cut was about $100,000 on average, I have see bill hit over 4 million on some too. It is expensive to replace a half mile of fiber. A fence auger grabs a fiber and pulls it up out ground it can damage the fiber for a thousand feet or more.

I was only tech with in 125 miles , I was always first on scene, I laid out couple thousand feet of fiber I carried in my truck and did fusion slices on both ends to get fiber back up till we could do permanent repair weeks later. I have worked on maybe 18 cuts total...

 

[Tom_in_CA]

So Th'r, with all this said and done, would you say that it is necessary for an md'r to "call before he digs" ? The reason I ask is, .... believe it or not, this underground utility thing (aka "J.U.L.I.E." ?) was/is actually the answer thought up by a few cities, when persons came in to the counter asking permission to metal detect at parks. Naturally, the md'r would object (I suppose) and try to reason with the clerk and tell them that that's talking about heavy equipment, back-hoes, etc...

But in-lieu of what you're saying (that electricals can be as shallow as 6"), then ...... is this perhaps a legitimate reason for cities to cite as a "go to" answer in telling someone "no"? And if so, how is that a b*ttload of other parks (heck ......... everyone on this forum who has ever .... gasp ...... dug a hole) get detected routinely? I'm not saying this is "right" , or disputing that may be the letter of the law, but just asking ..... realistically, ... how does a housewife so much as plant posies in her garden ??

This is a great subject, and your experience of many years in the field, is very appreciated in this.

Kuger, I've seen you post some nice coins at times. I'm guessing you're on the "dark side" and .... just dig them?

 

[kuger]

So Th'r, with all this said and done, would you say that it is necessary for an md'r to "call before he digs" ? The reason I ask is, .... believe it or not, this underground utility thing (aka "J.U.L.I.E." ?) was/is actually the answer thought up by a few cities, when persons came in to the counter asking permission to metal detect at parks. Naturally, the md'r would object (I suppose) and try to reason with the clerk and tell them that that's talking about heavy equipment, back-hoes, etc...

But in-lieu of what you're saying (that electricals can be as shallow as 6"), then ...... is this perhaps a legitimate reason for cities to cite as a "go to" answer in telling someone "no"? And if so, how is that a b*ttload of other parks (heck ......... everyone on this forum who has ever .... gasp ...... dug a hole) get detected routinely? I'm not saying this is "right" , or disputing that may be the letter of the law, but just asking ..... realistically, ... how does a housewife so much as plant posies in her garden ??

This is a great subject, and your experience of many years in the field, is very appreciated in this.

Kuger, I've seen you post some nice coins at times. I'm guessing you're on the "dark side" and .... just dig them?

Tom,as I said.....again,I am not saying I call em,and not telling you, to either.I was merely laying out the "other side",of the scenario.....I know that on one of my pieces of ground the owner allowed a bottle club to come in and dig...they dug through not only the owners phone line,but the main trunk line that fed his whole place(had phone lines on all of his alarms to his irrigation pumps and security gates...ended up a very expensive "mistake"...totally different than just MDing though.I am actually surprised cut phone drops dont occur more actually...from MDing...they sure do with "housewives digging fence posts etc....happens all the time...and yes "house wife",is liable for the bill
Tom,when I lived in Gonzales....I was digging holes for my dog kennel side posts and cut the phone line to my house....cost me $300 and they cut me a deal!

 

[302guy]

I an not telling anyone to call one call, but I guarantee you there are 10s of 1,000s of copper lines buried 6 to 12 inches deep in peoples yards. I have worked telecom since I was 25 and I am 64 now, I located cables day in and day out for 15 years for a telecom company, we had fiber in the ground usually buried 4 ft, but there ewere places where it was under 18 inches due to erosion.

There are places in Delaware where they laid telephone and cable jointly right on the dirt and let them go over it with sod. Every time there was an irrigation system installed. an invisible dog fence or the lawn was aerated they called us out to locate...you could literally roll the sod back and pull up the wire. And they acted as if that was normal. That was several years back. I can imagine it has all been replaced now do to the winters we've had since then.

 

[302guy]

Tom,as I said.....again,I am not saying call em,and not telling you, to either.I was merely laying out the "other side",of the scenario.....I know that on one of my pieces of ground the owner allowed a bottle club to come in and dig...they dug through not only the owners phone line,but the main trunk line that fed his whole place(had phone lines on all of his alarms to his irrigation pumps and security gates...ended up a very expensive "mistake"...totally different than just MDing though.I am actually surprised cut phone drops dont occur more actually...from MDing...they sure do with "housewives digging fence posts etc....happens all the time...and yes "house wife",is liable for the bill
Tom,when I lived in Gonzales....I was digging holes for my dog kennel side posts and cut the phone line to my house....cost me $300 and they cut me a deal!

In Delaware if that wire is 16" or deeper you are responsible. Or if you are within 36" of the PED no matter how deep. And yes sir, it is expensive. I had to locate a stretch of rode for natural gas lines once, the microfish showed a 900 pair telephone wire on the west side, found it, located it and marked it. A few days later they called me out to locate a damage.....900 pair on the west side of the road? WTH? They hit it with the bore. When they pulled the bore 75 feet of cable came up and out. The original was on that side and had been damaged when they cleaned the ditches out a few times before, so they moved it. Brother, I was sick to my stomach when I saw that 900 pair and though it was my fault.

 

[surf]

 

[Wyomingmedic]

For us a small cut was about $100,000 on average, I have see bill hit over 4 million on some too. It is expensive to replace a half mile of fiber. A fence auger grabs a fiber and pulls it up out ground it can damage the fiber for a thousand feet or more.

Had that happen to us just the other day. I maintain 911 call centers and radio communications sites. Almost everything has a dedicated T1 line to it.

Some rancher punching post holes NAILED and sucked up almost 40 feet of fiber with the auger. This resulted in ALL 911 traffic for almost 1/4 of the state (and it's a BIG state) going down for hours and hours. All of our trunking radio sites were dropped and in stand alone mode called "site trunking" for those hours.

I really hate to think what his cost was. $100K, maybe more?

WM