Can anyone help with information

[jtw1313]

If anyone can help with information on this porcelain container it is appreciated it is signed Roth on the bottom with the number 7880

 

[Tony in SC]

Nice piece!.Don't know the size, but I would say early 1900 ladies powder box?

 

[jtw1313]

Thanks

It’s about 5 by 5 inches

 

[RW]

I think it is by Ardalt.

Maybe post it here:
Porcelains/Ceramics/Pottery
or put the word porcelain in the title to get more views.

Similar on the right track

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/large-white-porcelain-roses-hinged-242561999

 

[pat-tekker-cat]

I tried the search "Limoges porcelain flower box".
Got a few hits, then tried "Roth porcelain flower box".
Under images, you'll possibly get a lot of pottery pot,
keep scrolling down, you'll start seeing Roth porcelain flower boxes.

I saw a round one, similar to yours, but didn't see a square one, yet.
Good Luck!

 

[Red-Coat]

It is indeed a trinket box, sometimes known as a ladies dresser box. It’s a pretty crude mark that looks like it was made on the master for the mould and my guess (only a guess) is that it’s ‘for’ (not ‘by’) the John H Roth Company of America. Roth sold his equity in in the Wheelock Pottery of Indiana and went into business under his own name in 1909 as an importer and wholesaler of pottery commissioned from the actual producers. I believe the company still exists today.

The thing about John Roth’s pottery is that is has no particular style. He shrewdly took whatever he could get from wherever he could get it if the price was right and he thought it would sell. Much of it was fancy decorative ware in European styles, and he sold everything from Staffordshire dinner services to German beer steins, plus everything from high quality porcelain to mass produced Nipponware from Japan. Quality pieces carry one his marks proper under the glaze and are co-marked with the actual manufacturer. I suspect the crude mark is for a factory with multiple customers to identify the customer who commissioned the mould and may have been supplemented on the finished piece with an adhesive foil label that may no longer be present. Most of it also carries a 4 digit style number. I would guess it came out of a Japanese factory as a copy of a French or German porcelain style and may not be particularly old.

The other possibility is that it’s a mould mark for Johansen Roth (again ‘for’ not ‘by’, since they were also American importers not producers). The age and origin would likely be the same. There is a myth that many of their pieces were made by Meissen (and this one has similarities of design to some Meissen-ware) but the Meissen factory historians in Germany are on record as saying that they never produced anything for Johansen Roth (or Jacobsen Roth as sometimes claimed) and had never heard of the names.

It is, as @RW points out, very similar in design to some pieces known to have been produced for Ardent-Lenwile, another American importer who operated in a similar fashion, but the similarities may well be because they were using some of the same source factories in Japan (or elsewhere) as either of the “Roths”.

 

[jtw1313]

Thank you so much everyone for the comments and information
@red-coat thank you for all the information. Always appreciated Tnet

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

As usual, I'm fashionably late to the party.
Great info by Red-Coat, Pat & RW.

Dave

 

[ARC]

JTW,,, no offense... but I do not know what you would do without TreasureNet to solve the items you acquire.

Ya know... when I began antiques... I only had books at my disposal.

Countless hours in books and bookstores.

Seems you reply on us to do the work FOR you.

Again no offense.

I just noticed you have posted here for 6 years and it always involves solving something for you.

I for one don't mind posting a quick obvious solve for you from time to time.

But learning requires YOU to do the work my friend.

:P

 

[jtw1313]

@aarc if I posted everything I have I would crash the site lol........I only post if I’m in a hurry and most of the time I have looked before I post........ and I think people enjoy it or this site wouldn’t be here.....this is in what is it not show and tell.....i also have more knowledge than you might think.....and I always thank the ones who responded
This is what the site is for......it is really quite simple if it bothers you that much or you don’t like it don’t open the thread why waste your time.

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

@aarc if I posted everything I have I would crash the site lol........I only post if I’m in a hurry and most of the time I have looked before I post........ and I think people enjoy it or this site wouldn’t be here.....this is in what is it not show and tell.....i also have more knowledge than you might think.....and I always thank the ones who responded
This is what the site is for......it is really quite simple if it bothers you that much or you don’t like it don’t open the thread why waste your time.

Personally, I find most of the things you post to be a challenge and this is how we all learn about new things as well. I understand where ARC is coming from though, when I started digging bottles at age 15 all we had were books and old school antique dealers for reference. I usually only respond when I have an interest or a theory as to what the item may be... please keep your posts coming!

Dave

 

[jtw1313]

Books were written by someone......basically this is the same thing just the times have changed.
Usually 9 times out of 10 everyone agrees they enjoy my posts. I’m not sure why anyone would get upset over a post. we all post here to learn or to show our finds.......and if anyone ever has a question about a item they have I will gladly take the time to answer if I have the knowledge to share

 

[JVA5th]

I don't often get involved in these debates, but isn't the whole point of this section to identify things you don't know about? I mean you learn regardless from others knowledge as they pass it to you. This is faster and more convenient. Also seeing others items is interesting as a bonus. Sorry just had to give my two cents, not trying to offend anyone.

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

I don't often get involved in these debates, but isn't the whole point of this section to identify things you don't know about? I mean you learn regardless from others knowledge as they pass it to you. This is faster and more convenient. Also seeing others items is interesting as a bonus. Sorry just had to give my two cents, not trying to offend anyone.

I completely agree with you on this point John. I also enjoy hearing others theories on how objects might have been used or what their intended purpose might have been and jtw1313 has posted some interesting pieces over the past few years. It really doesn't matter if your objects are found with a metal detector or in a thrift store with your eyeball, or in my case sometimes on Kijiji.

It's the thrill of the hunt and potentially finding a treasure that gets me up every morning.
Dave

 

[ARC]

I don't often get involved in these debates, but isn't the whole point of this section to identify things you don't know about? I mean you learn regardless from others knowledge as they pass it to you. This is faster and more convenient. Also seeing others items is interesting as a bonus. Sorry just had to give my two cents, not trying to offend anyone.

Yes it is... but at what point does the help become something of a bit more... I think 6 years of ONLY posting items for others to tell you what it is so you can sell it is ummmm ? ? ?

What do you think ?

To "use" the what is it forum to constantly solve stuff for another's obvious selling enterprises is ummmmmm again.... what do you think ?

You want us to do the work for you so you can make money ? ? ?

Cut us in. :P

 

[ARC]

I personally have solved countless items for JTW... which is fine... I just wanted to point out the fact in a jokingly manner.

USers posting things they found metal detecting is one thing.

Users posting everyday items they buy to sell for US to do the work is another IMO.


P>S>... Also IMO...

IF you want to sell stuff you buy online...

Do what everyone else has to do... THE WORK INVOLVED... its called "earning it".

I am not here to make YOU money... period.

heh

 

[jtw1313]

Like I said it is simple don’t answer and don’t open the thread.........how about this I will delete my profile......this place always seems to have the one person that comes out every once in awhile........it’s been fun tnet........
Tnet should try to get rid of this because it’s happened before always some #%t starter......what does anyone care what anyone does with the items they have or where they get them or what they post.......weird

 

[JVA5th]

I personally have solved countless items for JTW... which is fine... I just wanted to point out the fact in a jokingly manner.

USers posting things they found metal detecting is one thing.

Users posting everyday items they buy to sell for US to do the work is another IMO.


P>S>... Also IMO...

IF you want to sell stuff you buy online...

Do what everyone else has to do... THE WORK INVOLVED... its called "earning it".

I am not here to make YOU money... period.

heh

Still you do not need to respond to said users post if it makes you feel that way. I still learn things from posts like this as people answer. I also enjoy seeing what people have and learning about said items. If you don't want to share your knowledge and feel it's being used, then well you are not inclined to. See how that works? Not trying to offend you. I really enjoy this community so I try to stay out of stuff like this. I find almost everyone here to be wonderful people.

 

[Plug N Play]

I enjoy the posts because I sense jtw1313 does have a lot of background knowledge ... makes for a nice challenge and learning experience when they pose a stumper.

If I might offer one tiny suggestion ?
The TITLES. It's a rookie mistake to post titles without a direct clue to the item.

"What is it?" and "Can anyone help?" make it hard to research something and go back and quickly find the posts when there are four "What is it" titled posts running down the page.

Something identifiable in the title is a pro move.

jtw always starts with good, multiple pictures. jtw is always there to respond (wisely and on point). Additional pictures are never a problem. Need measurements or details ... you can trust it will be coming, soon.

You start out at $0 pay, but it doubles over time, and you don't get docked for time off. (I've had worse jobs.)

 

[JVA5th]

Also so no one is offended I'm very appreciative of this whole community as many have helped me. So again in my responses I'm not trying to upset anyone. I've been helped and never really contribute to helping as I know very little. But I'm always so thankful for those whom share knowledge with me and are kind enough to do so.