Can't Decide - Nokta Relic or Makro Racer 2?

[Valley Ranger]

Love the great info everyone shares here! I am trying to decide between purchasing the Nokta Relic or the Makro Racer 2. I currently own 5 detectors: one old (but good condition) Fisher 1266X (for sale), a Teknetics T2SE (also for sale), 2 Garrett AT Pros and an XP Deus. I hunt primarily in Virginia's Shenandoah Valley - old home/farm and colonial sites and Civil War sites. I think I'm seeing that Monte thinks the Nokta Relic just edges out the Racer 2, so I was leaning that way until I realized the weight. I'm afraid it might just be a tad too heavy for my bad elbow. I used to have a White's MXT Pro and loved that machine, but I could not swing it for more than 30 minutes due to the weight. I can swing the AT Pros, the T2 and the Deus all day.

So what do y'all think?

Thanks!

 

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[Terry Soloman]

BUY AMERICAN!

 

[Valley Ranger]

BUY AMERICAN!

I do when I can, but when it comes to treasure hunting, I'll waver from that conviction. I want the best for the least and one of these 2 machines seem to be what I need right now.

 

[Terry Soloman]

Why? You have the Deus, the AT Pro, and the T2. What are the machines you listed going to do for you these three machine can't? I could see you moving to a deeper multi-freq machine like a Minelab Explorer (Australia), or even a Tesoro Tejon (Prescott, AZ) which is also deeper.

 

[Tom Slick]

Terry, When did they start making Minelab in the U.S.A. ? Just wondering.
Valley Ranger, Between the two, I think it depends on how you'll use the detector. I think the Racer 2 is a little more directed towards a coin/jewelry detector and the Relic more towards the Relic side. The Relic's 19 kHz frequency helps on the tiny low conductors while the Racer's 14 kHz is a tad better on the higher conductors. The Racer 2's notch helps where you're trying to avoid modern trash like pulltabs in parks. Not something really needed while hunting relics.

 

[Valley Ranger]

Terry, When did they start making Minelab in the U.S.A. ? Just wondering.
Valley Ranger, Between the two, I think it depends on how you'll use the detector. I think the Racer 2 is a little more directed towards a coin/jewelry detector and the Relic more towards the Relic side. The Relic's 19 kHz frequency helps on the tiny low conductors while the Racer's 14 kHz is a tad better on the higher conductors. The Racer 2's notch helps where you're trying to avoid modern trash like pulltabs in parks. Not something really needed while hunting relics.

Yes, that's kinda what I was thinking. I'm just concerned about the weight. My hunts are typically "all dayers" and I need something rather light.

 

[Valley Ranger]

Why? You have the Deus, the AT Pro, and the T2. What are the machines you listed going to do for you these three machine can't? I could see you moving to a deeper multi-freq machine like a Minelab Explorer (Australia), or even a Tesoro Tejon (Prescott, AZ) which is also deeper.

My understanding is that the unmasking and separation in iron is superior. That's one of the main things I'm looking for, especially with the small coil. Deus does not offer that option.

 

[Terry Soloman]

My understanding is that the unmasking and separation in iron is superior. That's one of the main things I'm looking for, especially with the small coil. Deus does not offer that option.

Tesoro Tejon does.

 

[DiggerinVA]

I can tell you or I should say "warn you".....Steer clear of these machines! I just got rid of a Fors Relic and was glad to do it! This machine is fast and fairly deep.....but you will not find anything with it that the Deus or even your T2 will not find. The Relic loves rusty nails and makes it nearly useless in heavy iron. Normal conditions you will dig many, many small targets such as .22 bullets and foil that will ID in the 80's just like a coin! I have a post on the head to head forum about this machine. You will be disappointed I promise. With the machines you currently own, I would add the Tejon for max VLF depth or get another MXT all pro. I wouldn't trade my Tejon for both of the machines you are looking at! Don't believe the YouTube hype! If you are dead set on getting one of those foreign clunkers PM me and I will tell you where you can buy a like new one cheap!

 

[Valley Ranger]

I can tell you or I should say "warn you".....Steer clear of these machines! I just got rid of a Fors Relic and was glad to do it! This machine is fast and fairly deep.....but you will not find anything with it that the Deus or even your T2 will not find. The Relic loves rusty nails and makes it nearly useless in heavy iron. Normal conditions you will dig many, many small targets such as .22 bullets and foil that will ID in the 80's just like a coin! I have a post on the head to head forum about this machine. You will be disappointed I promise. With the machines you currently own, I would add the Tejon for max VLF depth or get another MXT all pro. I wouldn't trade my Tejon for both of the machines you are looking at! Don't believe the YouTube hype! If you are dead set on getting one of those foreign clunkers PM me and I will tell you where you can buy a like new one cheap!

Thanks Digger. But it's not the YouTube hype that has me looking, it's the experience of TH'rs like Monte and Keith Southern. Both of these fellas give high praise to the Makro Racer 2.

 

[Tom Slick]

I got my first detector at 21 years of age, a little over forty years ago. It was a White's and I was a loyal White's user for many years. To the point of becoming a White's dealer in the early 90's. I tried most of the other brands over the years and today I have 10 different detectors. I use them on different hunts because they each have somewhere that they perform better than others (for me). When the Racer came out a couple years back, I had to try one to check out all the "hype". I liked it so well that I bought a second just in case. After using the Racer for the first few times, I became more excited about it than any detector I had bought in years. Two buddies bought them also after seeing how the Racer performed. When the Racer 2 was released, I had to have one. I'm even more impressed than I was before. The Racer 2 has become my number one detector for hunting iron infested sites like ghost towns and Railroad sidings. It's my favorite dry beach sand detector that also performs better on the wet beach sand than any other VLF detector I've ever used. With the small coil, it will pick good targets out of trash better than any detector I've used. It's also an excellent planted competition hunt machine. Currently I have two Racer 2's and a Gold Racer. I have two excellent detectors for sale currently, a Mr. Bill modified IDX Pro, and a Tesoro Bandido II µMax. These are two of the best detectors ever produced for iron infested sites, but they never get used anymore. My Racers aren't going anywhere except out detecting... in about 30 minutes. I've got to eat breakfast first.

 

[Monte]

To: Valley Ranger -- Old Virginia --Richard: I was just starting to reply to your post on Findmall when I wasdirected here. Seems to get more activity here at T-Net, but a lot ofwhat I often read is negative. Naturally, we all have our own opinionsabout everything so we'll often have likes and dislikes that differ to others,even though we know we are right.

I'm in my 52nd year of detecting after starting at 15 with a home-builtdetector. I have heard, read or been part of discussions basedlargely on opinions that have been unsupported by fact, or in some cases a lackof ample use afield ... orunderstanding of how detectors work and/or knowledge ... tounderstand their strengths and weaknesses.

It's 6:15 AM here in Eastern Oregon and I will reply as quickly as I canbecause I am hitting the road for another Relic Hunting jaunt to a Gold MiningGhost Town in about an hour. If you have any specificquestions, please feel welcome to shoot me an e-mail and I will get back to youthis evening when I return.

I am trying to decide between purchasing the NoktaRelic or the Makro Racer 2. I currently own 5 detectors: one old (but goodcondition) Fisher 1266X (for sale), a Teknetics T2SE (also for sale), 2 GarrettAT Pros and an XP Deus. I hunt primarily in Virginia's Shenandoah Valley - oldhome/farm and colonial sites and Civil War sites.

First let me just saythat it never hurts to own and use morethan one detector. It looks like you are more into Relic Hunting than typicalurban Coin & Jewelry Hunting, so that sort of matches what I prefer to dothe most. I still get out Coin & Jewelry Hunting fromtime-to-time, but the bulk of my hunting effort is Relic Hunting old ghosttowns, homesteads, pioneer and military encampments, stage and railroadstops/depots/sidings, etc.

While I have never owned, or cared to own, an XP Deus, I have had Fisher1260 series models, four Teknetics T2's and 2 of the newer T2 'Classics.' I have had a few Garrett AT Pro and AT Gold models loaned out to me forevaluation, and certainly countless other makes and models unmentionedhere. Until January of 2015, the White's MXT Pro (All-Pro, the samedetector) was my primary-use, all-purpose detector as it hadmatched or bettered the T2's I had owned and the AT Pro and AT Gold models Iborrowed for a spell to evaluate.

I think I'm seeing that Monte thinks the NoktaRelic just edges out the Racer 2, so I was leaning that way until I realizedthe weight. I'm afraid it might just be a tad too heavy for my bad elbow. Iused to have a White's MXT Pro and loved that machine, but I could not swing itfor more than 30 minutes due to the weight. I can swing the AT Pros, the T2 andthe Deus all day. So what do y'all think?

That's correct, inmany dense iron littered sites, I do prefer the Nokta Relic over my Racer2. The Relic has a bit of an 'edge' in some trashy environments due tothe 19 kHz operating frequency, but that's not to be negative about the Racer2.

It was the Nokta FORS CoRe (Coin& Relic) that took me by surprise in Januaryof 2015, and it quickly bumped the MXT All-Pro from the main-use #1 spot to #2,but only for a brief period. The 15 kHz CoRe outperformed the ± 14 kHzMXT Pro when I used it on my NailBoard Performance Test, then four or five other test scenariosI use with any detector I evaluate, and then really showed off in theperformance department when I took it afield to a few old ranch and homesteadproperties in Eastern Oregon and Western Idaho.

In February of 2015 I had the original 14 kHz Racer in-hand and worked itagainst the CoRe and MXT Pro, and that resulted in the Racer becoming my #2unit in my detector arsenal, and put the MXT Pro out to pasture when I sold itoff. The Racer was a very close performing model to the CoRe, but theCoRe had an edge in comfort when I worked the larger-size standard 7X11 DD coilon some open plowed fields and such.

I do when I can

(Buy American), butwhen it comes to treasure hunting, I'll waver from that conviction. I want thebest for the least and one of these 2 machines seem to be what I need rightnow.

The Australian based Minelab company builds their detectors inMalaysia. Almost all of the electronic components used in all thedetectors and other electronic gadgets made come from China or Indonesia. Some other detector companies here in the USA have one or more detectors madeoff-shore, but one thing is for certain. We do NOT have a detector manufacturerhere that produces an All American Made detector.

Detectors, such as Garrett, Fisher, Teknetics, Tesoro, White's and others dooffer Made/Assembled In America metal detectors, but they do it by usingForeign Parts for the electronics and some of the housing and other physicalparts assembly. White's arm cup straps, for example, are made inChina. So it has never bothered me much to consider any detectorthat is Made/Assembled in another country because what I want is the bestpackage of physical design and electronic performance for my wants andneeds. And I am an Avid Detectorist so my wants and needs can be ratherdemanding when it comes to performance afield.

Yes, that's kinda what I was thinking. I'm justconcerned about the weight. My hunts are typically "all dayers" and Ineed something rather light.

Weight and balance are a couple of thefeatures I also consider when I evaluate a detector that I might want in mypersonal detector arsenal. I am 67, but live in pain 24/7 due to a badback, left knee, right shoulder, and other health limitations. I have hada cane since March of '93, and for any distance travel at a shopping mall orwalk around the block, my doctor prescribed a walker for me in 2001.

As you can tell, I also like a detector to be light and well balanced, whichwas a concern I had when I first saw the Nokta FORS CoRe. I liked what Ihad read about it, but it appeared to be a heavy and maybe awkward detector touse. I was wrong in that assumption! When I got the CoRe in Januarylast year, I was immediately impressed at the light weight and comfortablebalance. It's great with the smaller coil I use the most (The 4.7X5.2 'OOR'DD and 5½X10 Concentric) andeven the standard 7X11 DD was comfortable for some longer-periodsearches. The FORS series, to include my favorite, the Relic, all balancequite well. Matter-of-fact, I can enjoy longer searches with the Relicthan I can my Racer 2, it's that comfortable.

My understanding is that the unmasking andseparation in iron is superior. That's one of the main things I'm looking for,especially with the small coil. Deus does not offer that option.

Yes, itis how well a detector can unmask good targets in some very dense trashenvironments that made the Relic stand out for me. Don't get me wrong,the Nokta CoRe and Makro Racer 2, and even the Gold + and Gold Racer, haveshown themselves to be exceptional performers in tough trashyconditions. In my vehicle at all times (Unless it is a too hot summer day and I bring them in myhouse.) are my Relic, Racer 2 and CoRe. Each of them have their own smaller-size coil mounted and ready-to-go. Inaddition, I have my 'R-P' Relic that I keep a a 5½X10 Concentriccoil mounted as I like to use it in low-to-modest trash sites where the primarydebris is iron nails and similar cut wire type iron.

I was gone on a 'Welcome-to-HuntOuting' for 11 days earlier this month to Nevada where wehad half-a-dozen ghost towns on our list to get out and hunt, and my Relicwas naturally my main-use detector. At several locations Iwould alternate back-and-forth using the Relic then Racer 2, sometimes grabbingthe CoRe as well. All of these detectors can perform very well in thetypes of sites I hunt and you hunt, and I know that even if I was limited toowning only one detector, any of these three could cover my needs quite well. Thatsaid, the Racer 2 and Relic do have a few adjustment settings to help addresssome of my wants, suchas Tone Break and Iron Audio Volume adjustment. They also have a betterspread of the Target ID range for non-ferrous targets to assist in visualTarget ID as well as Discrimination if I so desire.

I have friends who favor the Makro Racer 2 platform, and that's just finebecause we all have our own likes and dislikes. I like the Racer 2 aswell for many Relic Hunting tasks which is why I keep it along with me and itis my #2 all-purpose detector. For me, the Racer 2 is more often assignedthe duty of first-grabbed when Coin & Jewelry Hunting in-town, but again,any of my main-carry detectors can be put to work and do well.

Let me address a couple of points made since your initial post here, and thatrelates to detection depth and Tesoro. I'll do it in that order:

Detection Depth: Generally I am not tooconcerned about target depth in most of the old-use sites I enjoy huntingbecause they typically have lost targets in the surface to ±4"range. Trying to achieve more depth in most of the locations I hunt,which have a very dense contamination of debris the bulk of which is ironbased, just isn't achievable or possible due to shallow and abundantmasking trash.

However, when I do hunt more open and rather sparse metal target locations, andeven those places where acts or man, animal and nature have repositionedtargets due to trampling and activity, or covered them more due to erosion orother natural activity, I don't fuss about the performance of any of my FORSseries or Racer series detectors when I grab them and want to get very good,functional depth-of-detection performance. This especially holds true forthe Relic and Racer 2 which have a 'DEEP' mode and it adds a little extrawhen using a slower sweep speed in sparse-target environments.

Tesoro: Tesoro detectors werementioned for handling iron littered sites and specifically the Tejón, if youwanted better depth. Well, let me add my 2¢ to these references. First, the ability of most Tesoro models to handle iron well. The factit, most of them do. I know this from a lot of experience hunting ghosttowns since may of '69, and my recoveries from those iron littered sites increasedremarkably in July of '83 when Tesoro introduced the Inca. I not onlystarted using the Tesoro Inca, but immediately switched over and became aTesoro Dealer thru November of '04. During those years I owned and used alot of detectors for many applications, but only a couple of them came close tomatching the performance of my favorite Tesoro models for serious Relic Huntingin ferrous junk.

To this very day, those who hunt with me or attend one of my seminars, or justget with me for some hands-on assistance to learn how to hunt in iron nailinfested sites, know that I value the performance of a favorite Tesoro model,and I use them to compare all other makes and models and search coilsusing a few test scenarios that duplicate iron contaminated sites I haveencountered. Of models currently in production, I did fair with the19 kHz Fisher F19's, of which I had two. I did a little better with aWhite's MX5 and MXT Pro, which were my #1 and #2 detectors, until January oflast year.

Once I used the Nokta FORS CoRe against these models and my test scenarios,then worked them afield in very iron plagued conditions ... against my twoWhite's models and a couple of my favorite Tesoro models ... I found the CoReto come closer than any other make or model made today to compete with theperformance of a Tesoro. The same held true for the original Racer,and today my Gold +, CoRe, Gold Racer, Racer 2 and Relic are all themain use detectors I have because they do so well against the analog-basedcircuitry of my preferred Tesoro models.

Actually, they do better overall, because on a tough ferrous challengeusing my NBPT, theRelic and Gold + can use either their standard or accessory Double-D coils andwork great, as well as with the 5½X10 Concentriccoil. The Tejón and most other Tesoro models do terrible on this testwith a variety of DD coils, but work quite well using any of the standard orsmaller-size Concentric coils. Thus an edge in favor of the Nokta models,and really the Makro models as they, too, do very well using any of the smallerto 5½X10 size DD coils.

And again, I read where someone claims the Tesoro Tejón is their best offer fordeep seeking abilities. I have had Tejóns that couldn't match the depthof a few of their own models, such as the Eldorado, and I have compared severalTejóns against the CoRe, Racer 2 and Relic and the Makro and Nokta detectorswere clearly superior in that challenge as well.

Sorry to ramble on, but I am here to tell you that these foreign builtdetectors are using electronic components from the same sources as thoseassembled in the USA or other places, and the build quality and workmanship isquite impressive. The company stands behind their products and staysalert to any needs for consumer care, service and support better than othermanufacturer, and bestof all, the Racer series and FORS series models provide us withsome of the best all-around performance than the competition.

I have always stressed that I like 'Simple,' Functional,' and 'Performance' outof any detector, and these models offer it. Simple to set up, adjust, andoperate while being very well balanced. Functional in that they do nothave an excess amount of settings to tinker with, but are very straight forwardin their operation to allow more detecting time and less fiddling aroundtime. Better still is the Performance they achieve.

The Racer 2 is my main-use urban Coin & Jewelry Hunting detector, but it isfully capable to serve me well when Relic Hunting which I do most of the time.

The Relic is my main-use Relic Hunting detector where I feel it has a fewadvantages in its favor, but it is also fully capable to serve me well forTraditional Coin & Jewelry Hunting.

My opinions and my preferences, all based on my own hands-on, side-by-side,in-the-field detecting and product evaluation of many brands and models. I encourage you to try and get a hold of a Racer 2 and Relic to see howcomfortable they are, try their various modes and settings, and make your owncomparisons.

Monte

 

[Valley Ranger]

I got my first detector at 21 years of age, a little over forty years ago. It was a White's and I was a loyal White's user for many years. To the point of becoming a White's dealer in the early 90's. I tried most of the other brands over the years and today I have 10 different detectors. I use them on different hunts because they each have somewhere that they perform better than others (for me). When the Racer came out a couple years back, I had to try one to check out all the "hype". I liked it so well that I bought a second just in case. After using the Racer for the first few times, I became more excited about it than any detector I had bought in years. Two buddies bought them also after seeing how the Racer performed. When the Racer 2 was released, I had to have one. I'm even more impressed than I was before. The Racer 2 has become my number one detector for hunting iron infested sites like ghost towns and Railroad sidings. It's my favorite dry beach sand detector that also performs better on the wet beach sand than any other VLF detector I've ever used. With the small coil, it will pick good targets out of trash better than any detector I've used. It's also an excellent planted competition hunt machine. Currently I have two Racer 2's and a Gold Racer. I have two excellent detectors for sale currently, a Mr. Bill modified IDX Pro, and a Tesoro Bandido II µMax. These are two of the best detectors ever produced for iron infested sites, but they never get used anymore. My Racers aren't going anywhere except out detecting... in about 30 minutes. I've got to eat breakfast first.

Thanks Tom! "My Racers aren't going anywhere except out detecting... in about 30 minutes. I've got to eat breakfast first." Ha! I envy you! We've been so dry here for the last month, the ground is like concrete. Waiting for some rain and a little cooler temps. Hope you make that "find of a lifetime."

 

[Keppy]

Thanks Digger. But it's not the YouTube hype that has me looking, it's the experience of TH'rs like Monte and Keith Southern. Both of these fellas give high praise to the Makro Racer 2.

They do but more than likely they get paid to give that high praise...

 

[Valley Ranger]

Thanks Monte! I was hoping you'd chime in. Yes, I'd love to chat with you some time. I may call or email you over the weekend. I truly appreciate you taking the time to offer this advice. You've been very helpful. And I hope you make some great finds today!

 

[Nokta Detectors]

They do but more than likely they get paid to give that high praise...

Hello. This is Dilek -Sales & Marketing Manager of Nokta/Makro products. I will just copy my post from another forum to reply to this post:

''I have been very cautious about not getting involved in any discussions regarding the performance of our products as that it something we leave up to our customers to decide upon. We do not make claims or we are not here to make any sales. However, when I saw this post … I had no choice but to chime in.

It is not a secret and we tell all the members of forums very openly that we do send test units out to Monte, Keith Southern, Steve Herschbach, Tom Dankowski and some others before finalizing a product and making the official release. We go through this stage based on the assumption that the majority of the forum members do respect their experience as well as their opinions of a product. All of them test the product thoroughly, share their results with us and give us feedbacks and / or suggestions. This way, any flaws or bugs are corrected or any improvement is made before we wrap up the product in its final form and offer it to our customers. We are doing this so that the end users can have a better product in their hands with risks minimized. ........ Once we release the product, we let them speak freely on public forums. They can say good things about the product or criticize it. We, by no means, know what they will write or say about the product in advance or how they will answer questions of the members. Unless we see something that is not accurate in terms of the information provided, we do not comment on their posts or interfere in the dialogues that they have with the members.

As the Sales & Marketing Manager of Nokta & Makro, I, hereby apologize to the people mentioned above because they are being exposed to slander while their whole intention is to help a manufacturer to offer better products that will benefit all end-users at the end. We send them a test unit and that is it! They are not in any way promised anything. None of them so far has demanded any free goods from our company either. Cash? If you ask my personal opinion their feedbacks are very valuable and they deserve a lot more! BUT not even one of them asked for even a free coil so far because they are all very honorable and respected people and act in the best interest of customers in this industry. Are they promised of free units? Yes, as long as they are willing to test our future products, we will be sending them a free unit for testing and I am sure all members of this forum will appreciate that!’’

 

[Valley Ranger]

They do but more than likely they get paid to give that high praise...

I don't think so. Probably shouldn't say something like that unless you know for sure.

 

[Terry Soloman]

I asked Dilek to send me a machine to test against the Tejon.

 

[DiggerinVA]

I have never thought that makro or Nokta was paying any of the guys mentioned above......However, answer me this question: If a company is sending you prototypes of every new machine they make, months before anyone else gets to see them, are you going to be quick to tell everyone the machine is no good? Not me; because then, I wont get a chance at the next one.....and the next......

 

[DiggerinVA]

I asked Dilek to send me a machine to test against the Tejon.

I have tested the Nokta Relic against my Tejon in everyway I could think of......and lets just say....I love my Tejon more than ever!