Cibola or Vaquero to buy.. UPDATE

[goldnow]

I'm about to make a buy and am leaning towards the Cibola, but never before used a Manual Ground Balance unit (Vaquero), so I wonder is it really all that necessary, and is there really a significant difference? I have no idea how mineralized my soil is in this granite-mountainous area, as I just moved here for a long stay (Italy) and have no way of testing it. Though the areas around the houses are nail infested like a layer of carpet as I tested it with my Whites PI machine. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Any comparisons on depth, finds, etc., between the two, also please?

!!!!!!UPDATE!!!!!!!;...
Monday;... The Vaquero arrived. It was raining so I spent the day reading the manual.

Tuesday;...Started in my front yard. Tried to GB, but it was hopeless as the area is a nail carpet underneath, but got her somewhat stable and started to play. First, I couldn't believe her weight, or better put, her weightlessness. Second, the silent running in disc. mode was an unexpected and a welcome surprise even though I read about it. I had to keep checking she was alive against my shovel. Though I was discing out nails, they still gave me some hopeful digs and ended my first 2 hour session with 4 nails and 1 brass cartridge.

Wednesday;...Took the V into the woods, and either I lucked out, or it isn't as hard as some people made it sound, but I Ground Balanced it in a matter of seconds. All seemed too obvious to me, for all the conversation around it. First hit was a circa 1700-1800 door or trunk hinge, and then a few pieces of rusted tools, a tobacco can, a shotgun shell end, and some pieces of metal. Then, my ears burst with the next sound.....It was big and square.. Couldn't decide where to start to dig at first. It was only a few inches deep, and was a "MARTINI" enameled metal sign, someone used for BB practice shooting, maybe. Wifey already decided where on the wall it will go.

My question today about the V is, How do you tell depth with the single tone, if at all?

 

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[kando]

Re: Cibola or Vaquero to buy.. MGB or none??

I'm about to make a buy and am leaning towards the Cibola, but never before used a Manual Ground Balance unit (Vaquero), so I wonder is it really all that necessary, and is there really a significant difference? I have no idea how mineralized my soil is in this granite-mountainous area, as I just moved here for a long stay (Italy) and have no way of testing it. Though the areas around the houses are nail infested like a layer of carpet as I tested it with my Whites PI machine. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Any comparisons on depth, finds, etc., between the two, also please?

Well it is like this i have used manual ground balance detectors and did not do a thing for me i will not own one now and am doing just great with my detecting.. To me all manual ground balance detectors are just a pain in the rear.

 

[Keppy]

Re: Cibola or Vaquero to buy.. MGB or none??

I have to agree with Kando , I do not use manual balance detectors any more they are a pain. And you can miss more targets with a manual detector than with a auto or preset if you do not keep checking it. To me you will find just as much with auto or preset as with a manual.

 

[goldnow]

Re: Cibola or Vaquero to buy.. MGB or none??

Thanks for being clear and to the point....That was my first impression. Having used exclusively the Whites on beaches, and with no experience on the ground or with discrimination, I didn't want to pay and learn things that I won't be needing. I like it easy and fun, but still want to feel I'm not leaving behind good finds for only a few dollars difference...I would still like to hear the other side of the story.

 

[goldnow]

Re: Cibola or Vaquero to buy.. MGB or none??

Thanks Jim,..that's 2-0 (not including my opinion)

 

[Keppy]

Re: Cibola or Vaquero to buy.. MGB or none??

The minelab sovereign goes as deep as any detector out there and it is auto ground balance and auto ground tracking..

 

[l.cutler]

Re: Cibola or Vaquero to buy.. MGB or none??

It really depends on your soil and whether or not you plan to hunt a wide variety of areas. Manual ground balance is always better than preset but preset will work fine in most areas. You will definitely have problems if your preset is way off. If you are hunting an area with such variation in mineralization that you have to constantly reset ground balance, then you would be even worse off with preset because you have no way to adjust it.

 

[goldnow]

Re: Cibola or Vaquero to buy.. MGB or none??

It really depends on your soil and whether or not you plan to hunt a wide variety of areas. Manual ground balance is always better than preset but preset will work fine in most areas. You will definitely have problems if your preset is way off. If you are hunting an area with such variation in mineralization that you have to constantly reset ground balance, then you would be even worse off with preset because you have no way to adjust it.

Thank you for your opinion. Considering I have absolutely no idea what my soil is or will be, and do plan to do other unknown areas, such as dry sand, high mountain passes, and pasture, I think you just might be right. Even if you are not, I don't think I will stop thinking about if I was wrong the whole time I was hunting. So, for the extra 100, I'll sleep and play better, methinks.

All the luck, Goldnow

 

[extractor]

Re: Cibola or Vaquero to buy.. MGB or none??

I too am torn between the Cibola and the Vaquero. The Cibola will do what I wan't, but to have the manual GB for an xtra $100. would be a plus in a lot of different hunts. I've used manual GB detectors before , I dont think its that much of a problum to every so often to check the GB setting.

You might send Tesoro a Email and ask them if they know about the soils in your part of Italy.
HH Extractor

 

[La Beep]

Re: Cibola or Vaquero to buy.. MGB or none??

I like both the Cibola and the Vaquero and bought a Vaquero. As far as manual vs auto I can gb the Vaquero in about the same time as it take my Whites XLT to do its auto balance.
PS. The Cibola goes deep for a simple machine.

 

[sqwaby]

Re: Cibola or Vaquero to buy.. MGB or none??

I had never used a manual GB machine before getting a Vaq, its easy to GB. If money is not the issue, get the Vaq. Its a deep machine

 

[thrillathahunt]

Re: Cibola or Vaquero to buy.. MGB or none??

I tried out a friends Vaquero for a while and had to constantly re-ground balance every few minutes, it was a pain in the butt. So I bought a Cibola.

 

[goldnow]

Re: Cibola or Vaquero to buy.. MGB or none??

Thanks for all the opinions.....It certainly seems that there are two definitive camps on the virtues of the GB. One says it's a pain in the butt, and the other says you can't live without it.
My main experience is years of beach hunting with a White's PI, so I have been spoiled with simplicity, a bad back but simplicity. Money is not the problem for the extra $100, but certainly have an innate aversion to buying a problem.

I'm looking at land around my area, all in walking distance from my front door, to hunt that has never been searched, that has a history of the Celts, Romans, and into modern times. The standing houses are as old as 400+ years with outbuildings, stone paths, rock walls as old as 2,000 years old. There are foundations and collapsed stone buildings in the forest that show signs of being 1000+ years old by the style of plynths (stone door frames) used. Iron nails galore, bushels of bits of wire for vineyard posts, and multiple stratas of different earth, from sand to clay, to thick sod with granite and schist rocks everywhere. The valley is a dry lake bed, that disappeared 1000 years ago, so I have some idea to find its old habitated shoreline. That area is sand and gravel. The mountain passes are famous for war escapees into Switzerland, and many a story about hidden wealth left behind in the forests. The grain fields are also on the list, of course.

Considering the different types of land in my area, the GB sounds like the way to go, but don't want to lose the thrill of the hunt with technical frustration, either..

 

[La Beep]

Re: Cibola or Vaquero to buy.. MGB or none??

I tried out a friends Vaquero for a while and had to constantly re-ground balance every few minutes, it was a pain in the butt. So I bought a Cibola.

Sounds like he needs to send it back for a check up...even out of gb the "V" one mean machine.

 

[RPG]

Re: Cibola or Vaquero to buy.. MGB or none??

I tried out a friends Vaquero for a while and had to constantly re-ground balance every few minutes, it was a pain in the butt. So I bought a Cibola.

Sounds like he needs to send it back for a check up...even out of gb the "V" one mean machine.

If you ground balance the vaquero and super tune it to the max, I'm talking unstable here, you will give up on some signals in hard ground. It chirps, bleeps and spits constantly, but when it's doing this, it's deep.

I can't wait for the rains to come back and soften the ground. I've got some signals marked so I can find them again. Good signals will not chirp, bleep or spit. You will know when you have a signal worth digging. You just have to slow down and recheck every chirp, bleep and spit.

I had a signal this past monday and backed off to super tune, sensitivity 10. Couldn't even get a chirp. Cranked the sensitivity back to maxboost and got a clear tone. Dug it and got a general service button at about 7" and a large square nail. I think the maxboost + supertune was just enough to get by the masking of the nail. It was a newer button (1902-present) but hey, I'll take it.

Good Luck
Randy

 

[l.cutler]

Re: Cibola or Vaquero to buy.. MGB or none??

I tried out a friends Vaquero for a while and had to constantly re-ground balance every few minutes, it was a pain in the butt. So I bought a Cibola.

If you had to re balance every few minutes then the ground mineralization must vary drastically in that area, you would still be out of balance with the Cibola and no way to adjust to it.

 

[goldnow]

Re: Cibola or Vaquero to buy.. MGB or none??

"...even out of gb the "V" one mean machine."

Just so I understand..Do you mean when you do not MGB the Vaquero, it is at a pre-set balance like the Cibola?

 

[RPG]

Re: Cibola or Vaquero to buy.. MGB or none??

"...even out of gb the "V" one mean machine."

Just so I understand..Do you mean when you do not MGB the Vaquero, it is at a pre-set balance like the Cibola?

Not preset GB, it will lose depth when not balanced but will still find shallow objects.

 

[goldnow]

Re: Cibola or Vaquero to buy.. MGB or none??

Thanks RPG...."Not preset GB, it will lose depth when not balanced but will still find shallow objects."

Just waiting to order the Vaquero, as soon as the check in the mail is in my hand. I'm ordering with it the 5.75 coil, a cheap pinpointer (Sherlock), and a volume controllable set of earphones. Anything else I need?

Jumping from a PI to a terra firma machine is like starting all over again. Do I need the raincover and/or disc covers, too?

 

[RPG]

Re: Cibola or Vaquero to buy.. MGB or none??

Thanks RPG...."Not preset GB, it will lose depth when not balanced but will still find shallow objects."

Just waiting to order the Vaquero, as soon as the check in the mail is in my hand. I'm ordering with it the 5.75 coil, a cheap pinpointer (Sherlock), and a volume controllable set of earphones. Anything else I need?

Jumping from a PI to a terra firma machine is like starting all over again. Do I need the raincover and/or disc covers, too?

I put the 5.75" coil on as soon as I got it and haven't taken it off since. I'm sure a pinpointer would come in handy, but I don't use one. Earphones are great but I don't use them during summer for obvious reasons. I don't have a rain cover but will buy one soon. I have been caught in the rain and it's hard to run while stooped over shielding your detector from rain. The coil covers are good in certain areas, just keep them cleaned out. When I hunt in grass, I take mine off. I seem to get better depth without it. Of course that is probably just in my head.
Feel free to PM me if you need help.

Good Luck
Randy