CIRCA 1900 FRAMED BASEBALL PICTURE

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

"Play Ball"

I went to a swap meet recently and purchased an old, framed baseball player photo that I paid $10.00 for. I have already done quite a bit of research on it that can best be summed up with the following which is how I came up with a date of circa 1900 ... (Also see pictures).

1. The seller said he found it in a box of other junk and didn't know anything about it.
2. The frame is made of tin ~ Appears Victorian ~ Hand painted floral ~ Fold-out standee on back.
3. The frame is oval and measures 3 1/2" x 2 1/2"
4. The photo is sepa colored (brownish) and was developed in an oval shape then cut to fit.

5. Regarding the uniform ...

Uniform Parts:
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Caps - 1888 - Spalding:
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Shoes - 1883 - Spalding: National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Uniform/Collar - Last Used 1906
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Uniform/Beltless - First Used circa 1910
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Earliest Numbering of Jerseys - 1907-09
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Baseball History - First Major Leagues 1871 thru 1875
History of baseball in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Grain Elevators: Grain Elevators -- History

Pictures, etc ...


1. Framed Photo.

2. Photo Only.

3. Frame and Back. (Glass Not Shown).

4. Cropped Photo. I cannot read the words on the grain elevator.

Shoes from above link ~ He appears to be wearing #1 ~ Solid black high top. Ad is from 1883 Spalding catalog.

Cap ~ Appears to be either #11 or #19 ~ Mulit-sectioned top part. Ad is from 1888 Spalding catalog. I can't tell in my photo if the player is wearing a short or a long bill cap.

Uniform Pants/Beltless ~ Player in my photo is wearing a belt. Belts were last used on uniforms around 1910. This picture is the earliest known example that shows a beltless player and is dated 1913. It is said that prior to 1913 most players wore belts until they were discouraged and possibly even banned because defensive players would sometimes grab hold of the belt to stop an advancing runner.


Footnotes:

1. The Major Leagues were first introduced around 1871 to 1875.
2. Uniform numbering was first introduced in Major Leagues around 1907-1909. (My player has no visible number on his jersey.
3. Uniform "Collars" were last used around 1906. My player's jersey appears to have a collar.

Bottom Line Questions ...

1. Can you think of anything I missed?
2. do you agree with the circa 1900 date?
3. Do you think the player is ... Hometown Team ~ Farm/Minor League ~ Major League?
4. Can you think of any way to identify the location?
5. And what about the grain elevetor? Any clues there? Midwest?

6. And most important of all, do you happen to recognize The Player?

Thanks in advance for your time and interest. I realize I am asking some tough questions that may be impossible to answer, but I thought it would be fun anyway because Baseball season is upon us and I know there are a lot of fans out there like myself.

Sodabottlebob

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

Dont you have a Loupe? If the photo has the same resoultion as we are seeing, you will not see any lettering under a microscope.

I thought the 2 tone sock adds a great clue to the uniform but I understand it may have been used by many Minor League teams besides Honus Wagners team.. Let us know if you can date the photo paper.

Would it interest you if Honus Wagner wore a right ankle brace? (wink)

 

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[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Dont you have a Loupe?

I used to have one but lost it. I thought of that too, and may try and find and purchase one either today or tomorrow. I've already looked for a Coin/Stamp shop that's open today, but so far all of the ones I've called from the phone book are closed today because its Sunday. I may have to wait until one day next week. I will probably take the photo with me just in case a Coin/Stamp or Jewely/Watch Repair place happens to have whatever I need to examine it closely. I have the time and would really like to find one today, but I may have to hold my horses until later. You can be sure when I do find a loupe or have it looked at that I will post my findings here.

Thanks.

Bob

 

[zendog64]

In regards to the player's throwing stance, I'm 90% sure the player in question is an infielder. Years ago I was a pitching coach for our local teener league team, so I've spent a lot of time on the mechanics of pitching, and I can safely say that no pitcher would use that type of release. It's close to the motion of a second or third baseman or shortstop throwing to first (since the shadow is on his right, he'd be throwing to first...unless, of course, the pic was taken in the morning when the sun was on the opposite side). I think the reason there aren't any other teammates in the pic is because it was either posed/staged or meant to be a publicity or newspaper photo. He appears too casual or "relaxed"...more like a pre-game warmup than an actual game.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Good news ...

I found a shop that's open today and sell loupes for $10.00. I will be heading over there shortly. Keep your fingers crossed.

SBB

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

In regards to the player's throwing stance, I'm 90% sure the player in question is an infielder. Years ago I was a pitching coach for our local teener league team, so I've spent a lot of time on the mechanics of pitching, and I can safely say that no pitcher would use that type of release. It's close to the motion of a second or third baseman or shortstop throwing to first (since the shadow is on his right, he'd be throwing to first...unless, of course, the pic was taken in the morning when the sun was on the opposite side). I think the reason there aren't any other teammates in the pic is because it was either posed/staged or meant to be a publicity or newspaper photo. He appears too casual or "relaxed"...more like a pre-game warmup than an actual game.

Thanks. If it was staged, pre-game warmup or publicity photo, it would seem more likely to be someone famous.

The idea of mine that his shoe or ankle brace is not tied tight would make me think this is not an actual game. You can see the hanging lacings. This is looking good and more like a staged pregame photo of someone of interest.

I think The Flying Dutchman played SS and he loved those 2 tone socks. (wink)

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Good news ...

I found a shop that's open today and sell loupes for $10.00. I will be heading over there shortly. Keep your fingers crossed.

SBB

View attachment 635248

I have a little 10x loupe and I wouldnt be caught dead without it.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Good News / Bad News

1. It turned that the coin shop gal I spoke to on the phone and who said they sold loupes for $10.00 apparently doesn't know the difference between a loupe and a lolipop. What she thought was a loupe was in reality nothing more than just a small magnifyng glass that, when I tested it, was no better than the one I already have.

2. Fortuniately I took the photo with me and stopped at a huge shopping mall that had no less than twenty jewlery shops. The clerk in the first one I walked into was kind enough to examine the photo under an extremely powerful scope they use to inspect diamonds and other precious stones. And right off the bat he saw the word GRAIN as the top word of the three words on the grain elevator wall. The clerk allowed me to look through the scope myself and the top word is definitely, absolutely, 100%, GRAIN.

3. Unfortuniately, the bottom two words were indistinguishable, except that the second word "might" have started out with what looked like Vyvu, which were blurry at best and didn't make sense to either one of us. The bottom word was just a big blur, with nothing distinguishable about it whatsoever. (I have no clue as to how I possibly came with PURINA earlier). We also examined every other square milimeter of the photo, including the player and his uniform, but did not see a single thing that would help identify anything about it that we don't already suspect and have discussed here. Nor was there was anything about the shoes and socks that was definiate enough to tell whether he's wearing long socks or short socks.

4. While in the mall I stopped into a sports card and collectibles shop and purchased an archival type case to keep the photo in for safe keeping. But the really interesting part was, after hearing my story and showing the photo to the sports-shop guy, he offered me $50.00 for it irregardless of who it might be, if anybody. He said he was willing to take a chance either way. But even better, when I told him about and described the frame, he upped his offer to $75.00. I politely thanked him for the offer, but politely declined it.


Anyway, we at least know for certain now that the top word is GRAIN, even if it doesn't tell us much more about it than what we knew before. And unless someone can make sense of what the letters Vyvu "might" stand for, then I'd say this is as good as its going to get as far as any magnifications are concerned. The Diamond Scope told all there was to know about it, even though it wasn't much.

Bob

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Good work on the word "GRAIN". Does this mean we are ruling out "Montgomery, Texas?" I noticed the "vyvu". I could see the y hanging down but didnt think it was any help.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

second letter is a y? Wyoming?

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Heck, why not? Sounds good to me. Let's try something like ...

Grain and Feed Supply

Wyoming (Mill Works)

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Example ...



Cherokee Grain & Feed - The Cherokee Grain & Feed was located on the corner of Elm Street and Fifth Street. Today it is home to Cherokee First Coop Association.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Check this out ~ From his two-colored cap right down to his two-colored socks ... very interesting!

http://www.vintagepostcards.org/ione-washington-baseball-team-player-catchers-mitt-rppc-p-4862.html



Caption that came with photo. (I haven't even looked yet to see what "Azo Tri 1" means).

"Scarce unused c. 1915 Azo Tri 1 real-photo postcard of a player from the Ione, WA baseball team, catcher's mitt in hand! Nicely detailed and sharply focused, great clarity. A desirable Pend Oreille County or sports collectible in excellent condition! $75.00."

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

PS ~

Azo is the name of an old postcard/paper company. The Tri 1 has something to do with how old it is and how it was made.

Postcard News From CourthouseSquare

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I noticed he has has no collar.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Reminder ...

National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Timeline

"By 1914, full-collared jerseys would disappear from the big leagues altogether."

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Here's another picture showing Minor League players wearing two-colored caps. I'm not sure if this is an indication of something, but it might be.

SBB



Original c.1895-1900 cabinet card photo of two minor league baseball players from Chicago. They have "CB" on their jerseys - the Chicago Brands minor league team, most likely.

Antique Photo of Chicago Minor League Baseball Players by diabolus

 

[zendog64]

The Chicago Brands last season was 1894, they played in the Chicago City League. At least that gets us a little closer on the date. In my research I haven't been able to find any evidence of high-top shoes in the early 1900s, and since it looks like the mystery player is wearing them, along with a two-toned hat and collar, I'm now leaning toward the 1890s.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

The Chicago Brands last season was 1894, they played in the Chicago City League. At least that gets us a little closer on the date. In my research I haven't been able to find any evidence of high-top shoes in the early 1900s, and since it looks like the mystery player is wearing them, along with a two-toned hat and collar, I'm now leaning toward the 1890s.

I put it in the late 1800s also.

Now there are several kinds of these 2 toned caps. I think the jockey type cap worn by our mystery player is the older type. Like 1880s.. The Spalding clipping is 1888.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I dont know much about photography but Im guessing that in the 1880s or 1890's the average person wouldnt be taking action pictures of the local neighborhood game. It seems to me these photographers would only take pictures of some importance and the pictures are probably all staged.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Another minor league player with a two-colored cap.

PLAY BALL!!! Great Falls and America's Favorite Pastime

Great Falls, Virginia ~ circa 1890s