CIRCA 1900 FRAMED BASEBALL PICTURE

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

"Play Ball"

I went to a swap meet recently and purchased an old, framed baseball player photo that I paid $10.00 for. I have already done quite a bit of research on it that can best be summed up with the following which is how I came up with a date of circa 1900 ... (Also see pictures).

1. The seller said he found it in a box of other junk and didn't know anything about it.
2. The frame is made of tin ~ Appears Victorian ~ Hand painted floral ~ Fold-out standee on back.
3. The frame is oval and measures 3 1/2" x 2 1/2"
4. The photo is sepa colored (brownish) and was developed in an oval shape then cut to fit.

5. Regarding the uniform ...

Uniform Parts:
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Caps - 1888 - Spalding:
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Shoes - 1883 - Spalding: National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Uniform/Collar - Last Used 1906
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Uniform/Beltless - First Used circa 1910
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Earliest Numbering of Jerseys - 1907-09
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Baseball History - First Major Leagues 1871 thru 1875
History of baseball in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Grain Elevators: Grain Elevators -- History

Pictures, etc ...


1. Framed Photo.

2. Photo Only.

3. Frame and Back. (Glass Not Shown).

4. Cropped Photo. I cannot read the words on the grain elevator.

Shoes from above link ~ He appears to be wearing #1 ~ Solid black high top. Ad is from 1883 Spalding catalog.

Cap ~ Appears to be either #11 or #19 ~ Mulit-sectioned top part. Ad is from 1888 Spalding catalog. I can't tell in my photo if the player is wearing a short or a long bill cap.

Uniform Pants/Beltless ~ Player in my photo is wearing a belt. Belts were last used on uniforms around 1910. This picture is the earliest known example that shows a beltless player and is dated 1913. It is said that prior to 1913 most players wore belts until they were discouraged and possibly even banned because defensive players would sometimes grab hold of the belt to stop an advancing runner.


Footnotes:

1. The Major Leagues were first introduced around 1871 to 1875.
2. Uniform numbering was first introduced in Major Leagues around 1907-1909. (My player has no visible number on his jersey.
3. Uniform "Collars" were last used around 1906. My player's jersey appears to have a collar.

Bottom Line Questions ...

1. Can you think of anything I missed?
2. do you agree with the circa 1900 date?
3. Do you think the player is ... Hometown Team ~ Farm/Minor League ~ Major League?
4. Can you think of any way to identify the location?
5. And what about the grain elevetor? Any clues there? Midwest?

6. And most important of all, do you happen to recognize The Player?

Thanks in advance for your time and interest. I realize I am asking some tough questions that may be impossible to answer, but I thought it would be fun anyway because Baseball season is upon us and I know there are a lot of fans out there like myself.

Sodabottlebob

 

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[Joeyd]

Hey SodabottleBob....sometimes when I'm trying to get a better idea of what I'm looking at in a photograph, I change to a negative image which kinda puts a different highlight on markings and helps a little....just a thought. I'll try and see if I can post an image of what I'm talking about.

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

It looks hand painted to me and my first thought was it was painted by the owner.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

First of all ...

I received the following email reply this morning ...

Bob,

Your information and pictures have been forwarded to our photo experts. If you don't hear back from me by the end of May, please zip me an email.

Thanks,

Tim Wiles
Baseball Hall of Fame Research Department

Secondly ...

cw0909 ~

Thanks for the links. I love them ol' baseball photos. Imagine parking your buggy right on the baseline. I have been looking at the 19th Century website, too, and have learned a lot from it. However, your Library of Congress links would not open, but not sure it its just me or what. If necessary, with a little tinkering and research I should be able to source them on my own.

Joeyd ~

Please let us know what you come up with. I have closely examined the frame with a magnifying glass, but did not find anything to identify it. However, one thing I can tell you is, the back panel appears to have been crudely painted with a brush. The paint on the back is different than the more professional looking paint on the front part, but I have no real clue as to why they differ.


This so called guessing game has now turned into a waiting game. I sure hope Tim's photo experts come up with something more definite, and will be sure to let everyone know when I eventually hear back from them.

Thanks again to everyone for your contributions and interest.

Bob

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

PS ~

Aside from looking for old pictures of cow pasture baseball games, my current research involves ...

Tight uniform pants/knickers vs Baggy uniform pants/knickers. So far I have discovered that most of the early 1800s pants were tight fitting and that the more baggy pants came later, especially so in the late 1800s and early 1900s. What I am attempting is to try and establish a close approximate date when they switched from tights to baggies.

Check out this website. It's one of the best I've seen regarding early, early basball photos and cards. It clearly illustrates what I mean by "tight" fitting knickers. It also has a great photo of players wearing two-colored caps. The first page opens to the index, so you will have to click around from there. The only bummer is, it won't allow pictures to be saved, nor text to be copied/pasted. Dang!

One of the text says that two old tintype photos of "unidentified players" from the 1870s sold for $400.00.


Link: http://www.cycleback.com/1800s/index.html

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I wonder if my 1979 Miami Amigos opening season little Louisville Slugger has any value?

"Everything" has value to the right collector at the right time!

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Sorry to hijack I started my own thread.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Big Cy ~

No problemo. I'll check it out and try and tell you who their cousin's cousins were. (Lol)

Check this out ...

"Home uniforms for all clubs at the turn of the century were white, while road uniforms were either gray or a darker hue."

" The first radical change in shirt design in the decade was provided by John McGraw’s 1906 Giants when they introduced the “collarless” jersey with a lapel contour curiously indentical to that of later decades. The fold-down collar was definitely on its way out but its popular replacement was to be the short, stand-up “cadet” style — first worn by the Cubs in 1909."

"The shoe height dropped from just below the ankle bone to a basic low-quarter style by 1910."

Much more here ...

Baseball Uniforms of the 20th Century by Baseball Almanac

 

[cw0909]

cw0909 ~

Thanks for the links. I love them ol' baseball photos. Imagine parking your buggy right on the baseline. I have been looking at the 19th Century website, too, and have learned a lot from it. However, your Library of Congress links would not open, but not sure it its just me or what. If necessary, with a little tinkering and research I should be able to source them on my own.

sorry bob they dont link for me either,try this,this may or may not work
American Memory from the Library of Congress - Search Results - gallery view
if it didnt work,there is always search
on this pg, American Memory from the Library of Congress - Home Page search spalding baseball guides
you will get a list,open whichever link you want,in a dif tab, window,click the img,and you
get the ebook,that can be paged to next page
i found these card sets,same thing open them,then open each set in dif tab or win
found by search term,minor league baseball,from American Memory from the Library of Congress - Home Page
gives a list,the card sets are listed,forgot to say the list is like 5-6 pg or more

hope this link works,just one example
Baseball Cards 1887-1914

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

cw0909 ~

Yeppers, all the links worked this time and should keep me occupied until the World Series starts in early November. (Lol)

Thanks.

Bob

 

[Joeyd]

SodaBottle Bob....have you considered removing the paint on the back (leaving the front painted) to the bare metal to see if any identification marks that might be covered by the thick paint? Also, on the negative image that shows the front of the frame, there seem to be 3 dots at the 12:00 position and a single dot at the 9:00 and 3:00 position. They appear somewhat in a bluish tint, what might that be?

 

[Franklin]

When all is said and done you will find out that is an 1888 photograph and it was took somewhere in Minnesota. The player I don't know?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

When all is said and done you will find out that is an 1888 photograph and it was took somewhere in Minnesota. The player I don't know?

I read back and the line that you mistaken for MINN, under magnification is GRAIN.

The line that you think is 1888, has not yet been solved. Under magnification it looks like Vyvu.

I believe he said he was 100 percent sure the first line is GRAIN. If this pic turns out to be in Minnesota, it would be pure coincidence. We dont seem to have enough pixels to determine anything.


View attachment 636240

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Have you considered removing the paint on the back. There seem to be 3 dots at the 12:00 position and a single dot at the 9:00 and 3:00 position.

Joeyd ~

I appreciate all the help I can get, especially observations that might reveal something specific. However, to achieve this I have no plans at this time to alter or damage either the photo itself or the frame. One compliments the other. Currently I am looking for an oval shaped plactic case so I can continue to display the photo in its original frame which truly sets it off. Regarding the "dots," no mystery there. They are small, hand painted flowers. The flowers are reddish and appear to be roses with iddy-biddy leaves surrounding them. Take a close look at the attached picture and you should be able to see them clearly.

Thanks again.

Bob


Triple click to enlarge.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

When all is said and done you will find out that is an 1888 photograph and it was took somewhere in Minnesota. The player I don't know?

Franklin ~

Under the magnification of a 20-Power jeweler's Diamond Scope, (Used for inspecting carats and flaws in diamonds) the top word clearly stood out as being Grain. I saw it myself and am 100% certain! My only comment regarding the other words is, the words were not decipherable under the 20-Power scope.

Thanks.

Bob

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Did ya know that early "belted" baseball pants/knickers were designed so that the buckle was worn to the side so as to prevent injury to the stomach in the event a player slid into a base on his belly? If you look at enough old pictures you will notice there is a belt loop right in the very center-front of all pants. I'm not 100% certain, but I believe an example of a sideways buckle is visible in the close up I just posted of the mystery photo. Which doesn't necessarily date it, but interesting nevertheless.

SBB

Here's an example of front-center belt loops in this 1890s photo.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

It doesnt seem likely that a grain elevator billboard type advertisement would be dated.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Cheney Studs ...

http://www.pacificcohistory.org/sw2000_3.htm

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I'm not suggesting this is the same exact grain elevator, but I am suggesting that it is similar. Notice the layout of the buildings, especially the building on the right with the long, sloped roof. Where there is one grainery like this there may be others. This one is located in Kempton, Indiana.

History ? Kempton Grain & Supply

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

To assist future research regarding grain elevators and related businesses, and especially common wordings associated with them, the following are two good examples to look for ...

1. Grain & Feed

2. Grain & Supply

 

[LAKOTA-MAN]

Vyvu- could this be Wyarno, as in Wyarno Wyoming? I've seen a pic of a grain mill the other day. Looked similair but the pic was a front view and a later date. Also, I notice in the first picture, that there is another player in the out-field, I believe left-field. If interested, let me know and I will try to relocate that picture and insert it. I'm not tech-sava.