cleaning out folks house

[outlaws15]

Hello everyone:
Found these in my parents house while cleaning it out. Up in the garage storage area. I have no clue what I have here just really think it is a cool find. I live in St. Louis MO and only guessing they might have came from around here or St. James, MO.
Thought maybe someone could tell me something about the arrowheads or other objects in picture.
Thanks

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[The Grim Reaper]

Great looking pieces you found in your parents house. They look like good creek finds to me from all the staining on them. Not seeing a lot of true "arrowheads" or "spear points". Looks like quite a few large Knife forms and some small Dart Points. A few Adz and a Grooved Axe as well.

 

[Garscale]

.number 6 looks like a red river knife to me. Any Cody is a good find!

 

[outlaws15]

I have so many different pages pulled up on the projectile site. 4 or more different pages I'm reading. Way to much try to decipher.
I do have an email into a archeologist department that I'd like to take everything into. Haven't heard back, but will keep trying until I hopefully will find someone local.
If it isn't to much I'd like to keep posting the pics and having people name them.
Thanks again
Just counted them 16 open pages of information

 

[outlaws15]

This is what I have so far and Older the better thanks I have tried to match what u posted, but only the ones I have #erd so far.
1) is big 8 inches long/1.09 thick in thickest part
2) 3/4 grooved axe
3)Etley or munkers creek
4)Etley
5)buck creek
6)edgefield scrapper or red river knife
7 8 9 nothing so far.

 

[Garscale]

8 is probably a nondescript wood working tool. Basically a flint adz.

9 is a super interesting blade. I really can't see the flaking well enough but it hints at being a paleo item. Might not be able to id it from pics. Do the edges around the base and maybe one Inch up each side feel intentionally dulled?

 

[outlaws15]

I would say it is sharp all the way around and is width .44 at the's base ( non pointed end) .38 middle and .43 at tip

 

[Tdog]

A preform or ovoid knife.

 

[Garscale]

Tdog is probably right. The new pics cut off the most diagnostic feature that I was wondering about. The base and basal edges.

 

[Twitch]

Great finds. I’m in St Louis as well. Nice collection. Lots of Etleys in there, the red one is an Apple Creek. Some nice points. All look to be creek finds.

 

[OntarioArch]

Should "river staining" or "creek staining" of an artifact be treated as patina: something to be preserved and not cleaned off. Or is it acceptable to clean off that staining to reveal the beauty of the underlying chert?

 

[Garscale]

Should "river staining" or "creek staining" of an artifact be treated as patina: something to be preserved and not cleaned off. Or is it acceptable to clean off that staining to reveal the beauty of the underlying chert?

Personal preference. On a rare and valuable point it is best to leave mist of it on there. In this case I would get most of it off so I could see those fine lithic.

 

[outlaws15]

In the process of trying to have someone look at them all and hopefully that will pan out soon.
Thanks
Rick

 

[outlaws15]

Tammy and I had a very enjoyable afternoon with twitch. Have no idea how you can thank someone who went out of his way to pass on so much information.
Thanks again joe we will always be ready to help you out any way you may need it.
Here are a couple of pictures of a piece that we would like to have more information on from everyone.
Thanks for looking.
Rick

 

[Garscale]

Was that in the collection and why have we not seen it before?

If authentic its a very rare and valuable Clovis point. Could possibly be an even more valuable Folsom. Cans we get edge pics showing thickness? That said.... I doubt it is authentic. I see a couple of red flags right off. There is no way for me to call that one bad from a few pics. It should be authenticated by someone like Dwain rogers out of temple Texas.

 

[outlaws15]

I thought it was in the collection I found at my folks house. I did add a couple I found on a golf course here in MO, (south county golf course called quail creek). I looked over the original pictures and I don't see it, but those pictures aren't very good. I bet it should be in there though.
I dont know a thing about this except what I learned today from twitch. He will be able to tell you much more about it.
Thanks
Rick
I dont see it in the original picture and the artifacts I added I had all together and I don't think it was any of those. I added maybe 3 or 4.

 

[outlaws15]

A couple more coming
Thickness
Point =.187
Middle =.241
Base = .175

 

[outlaws15]

Here goes

 

[Twitch]

Tammy and I had a very enjoyable afternoon with twitch. Have no idea how you can thank someone who went out of his way to pass on so much information.
Thanks again joe we will always be ready to help you out any way you may need it.
Here are a couple of pictures of a piece that we would like to have more information on from everyone.
Thanks for looking.
Rick

Was great to meet Rick and Tammy; had a great visit today. A lot of really nice points in the collection. An extremely nice lost lake (could use it's own post also), the ovid blade (I think it's paleo), lots of nice Etley's, table rocks, a lot really solid artifacts. In addition we scouted some potential hunting areas around their place and am confident we'll be seeing some personal finds before too long.

Let me talk to the Folsom pictured above. First, it's clearly a Folsom style point and not collected the same area as the other points in the collection (east central MO or southwest MO). Rick - I would actually start a new thread on this point by itself and title it something like "Folsom help / authentication". After handling the point my key observations are this:
1) The form and manufacture seem correct for a Folsom, including the flute platform preparation and finishing. L/W ratio is correct, thickness is correct. It's a good looking point in hand.
2) There is clear mineralization on the surface.
3) There are no loose hinge flakes on the piece.
4) The base is not ground. Obviously you would normally expect it to be well ground up the sides. One thing I was thinking is I struggle a little with the idea that someone has the knowledge and technical ability to physically produce this point with the intent to deceive someone, goes through the trouble of adding mineralization and yet forgets or doesn't know to grind the base? Somehow for me the lack of basal grinding actually helps it case.
5) This style is out of area for Eastern Missouri.
6) Of the other 100+ pieces in the collection not one of them are modern or show any signs of historic modification.

All of that being said, even after living in New Mexico for 5 years I am not at all an expert on Folsom. You're really going to need the opinion of some of the southwest and northern plains guys.

Thanks again for sharing your collection.

 

[Garscale]

Twitch you called it in hand about like I see it on the net. The new pics show thickness right in line with Folsom. Also the margins were worked off after the biface was fluted which is exactly right for Folsom.

The red flags to me were that it was not in the original pics. Doesn't show edge grinding. Does not exhibit the creek stain seen on the other artifacts and the basal ears are a tad odd. It looked too thick in the first two pics as well but new pics make it look better.

If authentic it is a first stage Folsom never hafted. Wish I could see it in person but I respect Twitchs observation of mineralization.

 

[outlaws15]

Thanks twitch, I did start a new thread. Can I copy your post and add it to new thread?