Clovis Technology & COA's

[joshuaream]

I've posted this piece before, but here is a fun example of Clovis technology from Kentucky. This piece probably broke while being knapped. Since they were near the quarry and material was plentiful, this piece was probably just discarded. No COAs on these, not really needed.

Some nice overshot flaking. Most of this flaking would have later been erased by additional flaking, resharpening from use as a knife until the biface was fluted.

Although it wasn't fluted, they off set a platform (nipple) on the base for future fluting:

The other side with some fluted point preforms from a different part of the world:

I am also reminded of a situation that unfolded over 10 years ago. One of the biggest names in the Certificate of Authenticity (COA) business sold a museum full of relics to a wealthy collector. The collector loved his COAs. He eventually met some people who said be careful buying COAs. He didn't want to hear it, but eventually sought out other independent opinions, and then learned enough to realize that he had been blinded by the powerful G-10. Almost all the significant relics that the collector bought from Mr. COA and friends turned out to be reproductions. Not even good reproductions.

Here is one of the motions in the legal case that describe the events.

https://casetext.com/case/bogle-v-jackson

Another collector summed it up in a poem:

 

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[arrow86]

Nice post .... Even if I had a lot of money I still wouldn't buy artifacts. For me the best part of finding an awesome point is knowing that I am the first person to hold it since the person that created it.

 

[Tnmountains]

Nice pictures showing the set up for the flute. It is nice to have your expertise to share so that we may network and learn. So many buyers do put their trust in C.O.A"s. My best C.O.A is when I pick it up myself.

So how does one establish themselves as an authenticaor anyway? It is surely not by the size of ones collection. I have seen archeologist even stumble on typology.

 

[T.C.]

.....don't forget the salted sites!! I've read of this happening on one of the old artifacts sites (PROS or Arrowpak). Makes ya wonder what goes through peoples heads when they are salting a site...

 

[monsterrack]

.....don't forget the salted sites!! I've read of this happening on one of the old artifacts sites (PROS or Arrowpak). Makes ya wonder what goes through peoples heads when they are salting a site...

They do it just for a laugh or they do it so someone will stop hunting that area once they learn it has been salted. Most use stuff from India or Mexico because it is cheap. The person that salts a site will keep hunting it because they know their junk they used.

 

[Tnmountains]

You are now seeing this unintentionally where people are doing civil war reenactments and losing buttons and such. Never understood how people can be so greedy about sites. i understand not saying where a site is and sharing it but once someone else stumbles on it or gets permission it is game on. Loosers weepers finders keepers .
I have shared numerous sites that I no longer hunt as I figure someone needs to be hunting them and it may help them get started.

 

[Bow Only]

I am friends with the most knowledgeable person there is on SE artifacts and he won't authenticate anymore. He got tired of people getting mad when they bought a piece and he told them what they didn't want to hear. How many surface collectors have great paleo collections? They are few and far between. There are some really nice paleo collections from people who dig but they fail in comparison to the number of really nice paleo collections that people buy.

 

[Mrdigz]

I've posted this piece before, but here is a fun example of Clovis technology from Kentucky. This piece probably broke while being knapped. Since they were near the quarry and material was plentiful, this piece was probably just discarded. No COAs on these, not really needed.

Some nice overshot flaking. Most of this flaking would have later been erased by additional flaking, resharpening from use as a knife until the biface was fluted.

Although it wasn't fluted, they off set a platform (nipple) on the base for future fluting:

The other side with some fluted point preforms from a different part of the world:

I am also reminded of a situation that unfolded over 10 years ago. One of the biggest names in the Certificate of Authenticity (COA) business sold a museum full of relics to a wealthy collector. The collector loved his COAs. He eventually met some people who said be careful buying COAs. He didn't want to hear it, but eventually sought out other independent opinions, and then learned enough to realize that he had been blinded by the powerful G-10. Almost all the significant relics that the collector bought from Mr. COA and friends turned out to be reproductions. Not even good reproductions.

Here is one of the motions in the legal case that describe the events.

https://casetext.com/case/bogle-v-jackson

Another collector summed it up in a poem:

View attachment 1411821

I've never sold anything nor bought any Artifact to date. I'm not against it I just haven't felt the need to sell pieces or justify spending cash on any yet. However, since I found 100% of my collections but don't have pics of the spots they were found or documentation about excavation ect... will this hurt my collections in the future? For instance my children might want to sell something but will get ripped off because there will be the lack of proof?

 

[The Grim Reaper]

I am friends with the most knowledgeable person there is on SE artifacts and he won't authenticate anymore. He got tired of people getting mad when they bought a piece and he told them what they didn't want to hear. How many surface collectors have great paleo collections? They are few and far between. There are some really nice paleo collections from people who dig but they fail in comparison to the number of really nice paleo collections that people buy.

I have hunted for 51 years and have one whole Clovis and a few pieces. My area just wasn't a big Clovis/Paleo hotbed. They are found spread out around the area and only one really known campsite or kill site that I have ever heard of or found. I have see a few come from this site with lots of Tools.

On the other end of the spectrum you have guys like Tom Westfall who has the best personally found Paleo collections you will ever see. Of course, he is in Colorado and right smack in Paleo central.

I wouldn't buy any Paleo piece for one, because I can't afford them, and two, unless I saw it found or trusted the person selling it 110% I wouldn't touch anything on the market. There are several really bad examples being bandied about here recently.

 

[tonykidd]

I have hunted for 51 years and have one whole Clovis and a few pieces. My area just wasn't a big Clovis/Paleo hotbed. They are found spread out around the area and only one really known campsite or kill site that I have ever heard of or found. I have see a few come from this site with lots of Tools.

On the other end of the spectrum you have guys like Tom Westfall who has the best personally found Paleo collections you will ever see. Of course, he is in Colorado and right smack in Paleo central.

I wouldn't buy any Paleo piece for one, because I can't afford them, and two, unless I saw it found or trusted the person selling it 110% I wouldn't touch anything on the market. There are several really bad examples being bandied about here recently.

Agreed. The ones found here in May at Page-Ladson that made the headlines I would have scratched my head over. They had been underwater for thousands of years so they had a nice sheen, but looked like any other bifacial knife. As I have so famously learned recently, there are many people out there who love to deceive others with fakery.

 

[Chessmen Trip]

Agreed. The ones found here in May at Page-Ladson that made the headlines I would have scratched my head over. They had been underwater for thousands of years so they had a nice sheen, but looked like any other bifacial knife. As I have so famously learned recently, there are many people out there who love to deceive others with fakery.

In reference to your "Found this today" thread?

 

[Bow Only]

When I was young, I had access to 49 different sites in NW FL. Only one had a Paleo component that was evidenced by artifacts. There were more there but just too deep for us to find them on the surface. The divers had great Paleo collections. That's why I started diving.

 

[jamey]

they are not to deep in tenn.i have seen many found surface hunting.

 

[arrow86]

Is anybody here familiar with smith island , MD it's a small island in the bay with a few smaller island around there's a resident that hunts the island an has a very impressive Clovis / Paleo collection. Which feeds into the Solutrean theory. They have dated some of the finds as old as 20,000 years old. My aunt has a house on The island I am going this summer for a few days and hopefully can find my first Clovis .... The guy that has the collection is really nice and offered to even take me around to some of his better spots..... The island is submerged by the bay a little more each year and soon all this history will be gone with it.