Coiins from a shipwreck

[huntsman53]

Hey Frank,
Chat to them and see if they want to let you have a go with a demo model and see what you can find, they may like the idea of the publicity if you score with one of their models.. Just a thought?

SADS 669,

Thanks, I never thought of trying that! Do you think it would help that I can speak pretty good Deutsch? When I received my' Draft notice in 1972, I joined instead and since they would not send me to Vietnam, I asked to go to (what was at the time) West Germany and they liked to never ran me out. Beautiful Country with beautiful women, great food and great beer, what more could you ask for??!! LOL!!!


Frank

 

[huntsman53]

His Avatar says "Somewhere over the rainbow"

Land of Oz?

Sorry, that was done out of spite because some folks on TNnet or lurkers are using our postings to slip in and raid and rape our' hard sought out MD'ing and treasure hunting spots! It has happened several times already that I know of and I am sure that there have been and will be more cases of this happening. Be careful that you do not give out too much information and don't dare to give an actual or even close location.


Frank

 

[Jolly Mon]

I just had my first cup of coffee and I must admit that I had a little trouble following what you were trying to convey and ask! Depending upon how a ship wrecked when it slammed into the reef, coral heads, rocks or beached is the most significant factor in whether the coins or other cargo will generally clump together once they are deposited on the ocean floor. If a ship went down with the coins and other cargo reasonably intact and they were eventually deposited by the hull slowing breaking up or the hull breeched upon impact and the coins and other cargo pretty much dropped in one spot, they will tend to clump and therefore due to their' combined weight, be less likely to scatter North and South or Westward (as in Treasure Coast wrecks) onto the beaches and further inland. However, if a ship broke apart upon collision with the reef, coral heads or rocks and the coins and other cargo were released from their' holds (barrels, crates, chests, etc.) in a sudden surge generally in the direction of travel and deposited on the ocean floor or gradually dumped from the hull as the ship continued forward while breaking apart, they would be somewhat scattered and not be stacked or piled on top of each other and therefore be more susceptible to wave and wind action and definitely from the forces of a hurricane. It takes a long time for coral or other encrustation's to develop around coins, so therefore, they would have to remain pretty much unmoving for a very long period for this to happen. Other factors must also be considered such as the depth at which the coins and cargo were deposited on the ocean floor, the ocean floor itself (i.e. is it mainly loose sand or covered with gravel type rocks or both, or contains larger rocks, or has many coral heads, etc.), the coastline itself (are there many portions jutting out into the ocean, many bays, lagoons and harbor sized inlets) as well as the prevailing and sometimes non-prevailing (as in hurricane effects and strong weather systems) waves and winds. All of the factors and conditions that I stated, are the reasons why there is so much variability between one shipwreck site to the next!


Frank

Sorry, I am not trying to be argumentative, but, as I said previously, this is a subject of great interest to me. You state the coin's "combined weight" would keep them from moving. If the coins stayed together for any length of time in a salt water environment, would they not be fused together in a conglomerate? How would the "combined weight" affect the coins on the top of the pile? It would seem to me coins near the top might move even more readily than coins lying on sand.
As far as the Treasure Coast is concerned, we are talking about items which have been rolling around in the surf and near surf zone for 300 years...yet 1715 Fleet coins are rarely found north of Bonsteel Park (except at Canaveral and around Indialantic ...and these are almost certainly from other wrecks) or South of Ft. Pierce. Perhaps we are both getting at the same idea: once coins are deposited on the bottom, they will not move as readily as many people might imagine...even in the surf zone.

 

[huntsman53]

Sorry, I am not trying to be argumentative, but, as I said previously, this is a subject of great interest to me. You state the coin's "combined weight" would keep them from moving. If the coins stayed together for any length of time in a salt water environment, would they not be fused together in a conglomerate? How would the "combined weight" affect the coins on the top of the pile? It would seem to me coins near the top might move even more readily than coins lying on sand.
As far as the Treasure Coast is concerned, we are talking about items which have been rolling around in the surf and near surf zone for 300 years...yet 1715 Fleet coins are rarely found north of Bonsteel Park (except at Canaveral and around Indialantic ...and these are almost certainly from other wrecks) or South of Ft. Pierce. Perhaps we are both getting at the same idea: once coins are deposited on the bottom, they will not move as readily as many people might imagine...even in the surf zone.

No problem and I could be somewhat off on this! However, let's say that stacked coins from a chest or hold, were deposited onto and/or into the ocean floor depending upon the make up of the bottom. As long as there enough coins sitting on top of other coins to prevent them from being displaced by wave action, then some (probably not all) will stay in place. There could also be other factors involved to keep the coins in place such as a cannon/cannons or Silver bar/bars laying on top of the coins. Yes, if the coins stay in place long enough, then they will be encrusted by coral and/or what other components that causes the encrustations, then pretty much stay for the long haul. Now of course, if some large object slams into the encrustation during a hurricane or other coastal storm, then they could either be released (broken out of) from the encrustation or the whole encrustation with the coins inside, may be moved and tossed around by the current and wave action. The coins on top of the pile would be more affect by the currents and wave action and probably be separated from the pile and yes, be moved around.

I was not aware that 1715 Fleet coins are rarely found North of Bonsteel Park but are found at Canaveral and around Indialantic! I am aware of the shipwrecks from off of Sebastian Inlet to off Ft. Lauderdale. I guess that it is possible that the coins found at Canaveral and around Indialantic are coming from wrecks off of Sebastian Inlet to South of Ft. Pierce but find it harder to believe than that they might actually be coming from other wrecks. I say this, because of the craggy rocks and rock shelves that lie not far off the beach at Sebastian Inlet and Southward to Ft. Pierce and possibly beyond. I know from visiting Sebastian Inlet and talking with Treasure hunters there, that much of the coins and other valuable items from shipwrecks off of these areas, usually are stuck between the rocks and sometimes wedged underneath the many rock shelves. Therefore, in my mind, I believe that it would be hard for coins from shipwrecks that lie off Sebastian Inlet to South of Ft. Pierce to be easily dislodged and make their way to off Canaveral and around Indialantic! Maybe some make it that far but I am still betting on that there are a few shipwrecks off these areas.


Frank

 

[SADS 669]

SADS 669,

Thanks, I never thought of trying that! Do you think it would help that I can speak pretty good Deutsch? When I received my' Draft notice in 1972, I joined instead and since they would not send me to Vietnam, I asked to go to (what was at the time) West Germany and they liked to never ran me out. Beautiful Country with beautiful women, great food and great beer, what more could you ask for??!! LOL!!!

Frank

I too served a few years in West Germany and agree with you. Send a letter off in Deutsch and see what happens. Congrats on body swerving a year in the jungle, that is about the most opposite I can think of to Bratty's and pommes washed down with a gallon of Octoberfest juice.

 

[smokeythecat]

Delaware coast, there are two wrecks 100-200 yards offshore. I only look on the sand, rip tides are bad so I won't go in the water. Found shipwreck coins 300 feet off the low tide mark
toward the base of the dune line and for approximately 1/3 mile north and 1/3 mile south of the wreck. Farther than that distance especially north or south, and the finds are fewer and farther between. I assume the ocean bottom is strewn, but I'm not going there.

 

[huntsman53]

I too served a few years in West Germany and agree with you. Send a letter off in Deutsch and see what happens. Congrats on body swerving a year in the jungle, that is about the most opposite I can think of to Bratty's and pommes washed down with a gallon of Octoberfest juice.

Where were you stationed in Germany? I first served in the 2nd Battalion, 33rd Armor of the 1st Brigade in the 3rd Armored Division at Ayers Kaserne in Kirchgoens, Germany as first an open-line truck driver hauling supplies and ammo, then Armorer (Weapons Specialist), then POL (Petroleum, Oil and Lube Specialist) hauling fuel, then back to open-line truck driver. The 2nd Battalion, 33rd Armored (Tigers) was all that was left of Patton's Tiger Division. I arrived in April 1973 and transferred to Giessen in June 1975. In Giessen, I served in the 70th Transportation Company, 106th Transportation Battalion of the 37th Transportation Group at the Giessen Army Depot. I drove 2000D International Tractor Trucks and 4070A Cab-Over International Tractor Trucks sometimes with and sometimes without trailers all over West Germany and sometimes to Amsterdam, Holland. I also trained and drove a Staff Car for the NATO talks at the NATO Headquarters Belgium in what was called SHAPEX 76.

Although I can speak fairly good Deutsch, I am not good in writing (schreiben) Deutsch! My ex-wife was German and from the little town (Stadt) of Lich. She divorced me after 32 1/2 years together but I am cool with it because she would spend so heavily, she nearly bankrupted me many times. Lich is fairly famous for Licher Bier which IMHO, is the best beer in all of Germany and that is coming from someone that has drunk most of the brands and names in Germany. I sure do miss the bratwursts, curry wursts, pomme frittes and Schnitzels as well as the Florida Boy orange juice drinks. I better stop because, "mein Gott, den ich hungrig erhalte" ("My God, I am getting hungry")!


Tschüss...Frank

 

[Jolly Mon]

Delaware coast, there are two wrecks 100-200 yards offshore. I only look on the sand, rip tides are bad so I won't go in the water. Found shipwreck coins 300 feet off the low tide mark
toward the base of the dune line and for approximately 1/3 mile north and 1/3 mile south of the wreck. Farther than that distance especially north or south, and the finds are fewer and farther between. I assume the ocean bottom is strewn, but I'm not going there.

Yes, that seems to be the rule pretty much everywhere shipwreck coins are found on the beach in substantial numbers...Treasure Coast, Padre Island, Ocean City, Delaware coast, Jersey Coast, etc...the coins always seem to be confined to a relatively small area of the beach...it seems to indicate they do not tend to travel far from the original wreck site...even if they make it to the surf zone.

I believe that, in general, if you find a shipwreck coin or other heavy artifact on the beach, then that coin or artifact was probably originally deposited VERY close to where you found it. As Au Dreamers put it in another thread, I think the 1715 Wagner "methodology" is applicable pretty much everywhere....http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/shipwrecks/331619-who-needs-florida-when-you-have-new-jersey.html

For my part, I take it as nearly certain that unlocated 1715 wrecks exist North of Sebastian Inlet.
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/s...-romans-when-you-have-boston-news-letter.html

 

[SADS 669]

Delaware coast, there are two wrecks 100-200 yards offshore. I only look on the sand, rip tides are bad so I won't go in the water. Found shipwreck coins 300 feet off the low tide mark
toward the base of the dune line and for approximately 1/3 mile north and 1/3 mile south of the wreck. Farther than that distance especially north or south, and the finds are fewer and farther between. I assume the ocean bottom is strewn, but I'm not going there.

There are many crazy divers who would love to do your underwater stuff there in exchange for a confidential nod as to where you want searched... I would.😊