copper body armor

[hmmm]

HI ALL
Not sure if this fits here , but what i have is a piece of copper that i think is a piece of body armor. it had woven bark covering it and i found it about 20 inches down.
it came from a island on the west side of Vancouver island. it was possibly connected to a seafaring people as it was found in the bush behind a beach in a calm lagoon.
there was a bronze looking spike near it as well. ill try post pictures, un fortunately the site is no longer available to detect.
have a look at the pictures and give me some feedback.

 

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[hmmm]

Whatever bro.. 100 feet from the beach is nothing in a big storm. Remember that was attached to wood that was floating at the time. A couple feet down is not uncommon at all. I'm from the "treasure coast" in Florida... I know what I'm saying. Make it whatever you want. It's probably off limits Partly because it's a shipwreck site.

dude, how can a storm cause big swells in this bay, pushing the copper into the dirt, 100 feet from the beach , also would it not be in the sand from the swells that cant reach it. . and what wood was it attached to it, it has woven grass or bark around it not wood.

"I'm from the "treasure coast" in Florida... I know what I'm saying."

what does this have to do with the wast coast of canada.

"It's probably off limits Partly because it's a shipwreck site." I told you , its now treaty land, thats why its off limits, how can a ship sink on land.

 

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[GatorBoy]

Go ahead and believe you have Native American body armor. If you don't want to use logic I'm done with this conversation. Me stating that I am from the Treasure Coast is me trying to tell you there are thousands of shipwrecks just minutes from my house up and down the East Coast of Florida. I have seen what you have there many many times. If you would rather picture a Native American Running around in copper sheeting More power to you. You would do very little laughing If you actually did some shipwreck research. You obviously have little understanding. Furthermore... one of the first things shipwreck survivors did was salvage as much as they could from the wreck including wood and metal objects that could be used to build a shelter and headed in away from the shoreline. Shipwreck items have been found a very long way from the wreck site. I'm also willing to bet the shoreline has changed quite a bit from the time of that wreck.

 

[hmmm]

I'm done with this conversation. .

you clearly have ship son the brain, so this works for me.

 

[GatorBoy]

the spike was not with the copper, but it is old and is hand pounded, my guess 1700's.

Just like the sheathing.

 

[Get-the-point]

Wow laughing at a member for offering logical advice. HMMM if you do not like what the members of this forum have to say and you want to place your own thoughts about the piece then why did you post it here?

Your item was found on shore yes over 100ft from the shoreline. Is it possible that the shoreline expanded at least once or twice during the 300 or so yrs. since this item was left? is it possible being attached to wood that the item floated in further then was trapped by the high grass when the water receded? Is it possible that Gator has encountered more of these type of items since he constantly deals with shipwreck remains in Florida? I think the answer to all of these questions is yes it is possible and the logic was placed before you and now you are attacking a member for it. Gator use better tact in your reply to this individual. Now he is just egging you on because he is not satisfied with the results of his post. HMMM if you did not want valid facts to support your find and only want to contradict what people are saying then why post it here. Post it in the what it is section of the forum and i can guarantee you will find the same results. Another thing is this forum is about responsible treasure hunters. It does not condone the act of violating local laws to acquire the artifacts, which in your post you clearly stated you were warned about hunting this spot and told not to do it again yet you post a find on here and state that you cannot go to anyone with it because it was found on that land you were told not to hunt!!..........................GTP

Your words:


i live in bc Canada and it is against the law to pick up artifacts older then 150 years old. bc authorities do not want to see history unfold. i call it hiding history.
if i take to get it identified, i risk getting charged for finding such a important artifact.
i do think it is Chinese and there has been other artifacts found, but because of the laws they remain hidden from history.
The Tyee – Did Ancient Drifters &#39iscover' British Columbia?
If a boat sinks, it is clasified a herritage ship in just 2 years and removing artifacts is against the law.

The dilemma i am at is, the site is now treaty land and i have been warned to stay away and not to try dig up history.

10 to 7 years ago, i tried to get attention to the finds i found, but after 10 years and 7 different officers investigating me for allegedly disturbing artifacts, they never charged me want it out of the station

 

[unclemac]

In defense of HMMM....I know the type of beaches and terrain he is talking about. His beaches are not sandy but rocky and the trees come right down to the edge of the beach. 100 feet back, where HMMM is also means steep slope and 30 foot vertical embankments. These islands don't get tidal surges they way the Gulf does. These are smaller steeper islands than Florida and storms break around them not over them.

like I said before....woven cedar....ships spike hand pounded into a blade....and coveted ships copper sheathing hidden for later. You might be into a burial site too as it sounds like your island may not have been a village site. Is this a Cowichan...Kwakiutl....Gwa'sala?...do you know the tribal affiliation?...that could help.

 

[GatorBoy]

Here are items from the wreck of the SS Atlantic recovered from the island of Saint Paul. in Nova Scotia. the SS Atlantic was an old ship when she went down in 1873. Take a close look at the cross re covered with these items. It matches yours to a T. Yours also happens to have the stone...which is rose cut amethyst... a Hallmark of the 19th century.

 

[GatorBoy]

 

[GatorBoy]

Glad I could help. Like you said at the opening of this thread...." possibly connected to a seafaring people"

 

[Pancake]

dude, how can a storm cause big swells in this bay, pushing the copper into the dirt, 100 feet from the beach , also would it not be in the sand from the swells that cant reach it. .

I live on the east coast and recently found some pictures of the beaches near my house taken in 1913. There are areas in these photos where there is literally 100 ft. of land now that wasn't there 100 years ago. I almost couldn't believe it, but the photos don't lie. I showed them to a guy I know who has property near where they were taken and he told me he's been gaining about 1' of land per year since he's owned it.

Growing up here, in a fishing/shipping community I have seen plenty of pieces of copper exactly like yours sitting in peoples houses or in old fishing shacks. I have a friend who is a shipwreck hunter and he has pieces exactly like yours.

One last thing, when I was a kid, I had a 13 foot scalloping skiff with a small Johnson outboard on it. Hurricane Gloria, which was a fairly minor hurricane, hit and my boat ended up about 40 feet into the brush on the side of the pond where I kept it. This wasn't even on the ocean but in a sheltered cove on a pond. My dad had to get a couple friends and use rollers to get it back in the water. I have no doubt that a serious storm could move just about anything 100ft.

It's still a very cool find but I have to agree that it's from a ship.

 

[GatorBoy]

Just read this whole thread again. Its pretty amusing. Then it gets pretty informative .... just can't figure why he was not happy to have found some really cool shipwreck items.

 

[rock]

Mother nature can do some amazing things when there is a storm.

 

[hmmm]

Just read this whole thread again. Its pretty amusing. Then it gets pretty informative .... just can't figure why he was not happy to have found some really cool shipwreck items.

gaterdude, i thought you where done with this thread, since you know so much about the copper sheathing on ships , tell why would they have woven cedar bark covering the copper. it just seams odd to me.
This bark is woven and attached to the copper, they are part of the same arifact and Coincidentally , it is the same style of bark weaving that the fn used to make cloths.
I guess there is no way this guy, would think to punch in holes in his copper breast plate and weave the bark around it, it would be more, as Spock would say, its only logical to just hold the copper breast plate in front of him.
http://lanecc.libguides.com/americanindians
View attachment copper.bmp
woven cedar bark is not what the white man used to cover the cooper sheathing used on ships,
but then you clearly are the expert of ships and fn artifacts made form copper and cedar bark , so who am i to argue.
i Will say , I am in the process of having a expert identifying it.



Any one know how i get rid of the thumbnail.

 

[GatorBoy]

Careful not to get arrested

 

[surf]

HI ALL
Not sure if this fits here , but what i have is a piece of copper that i think is a piece of body armor. it had woven bark covering it and i found it about 20 inches down.
it came from a island on the west side of Vancouver island. it was possibly connected to a seafaring people as it was found in the bush behind a beach in a calm lagoon.
there was a bronze looking spike near it as well. ill try post pictures, un fortunately the site is no longer available to detect.
have a look at the pictures and give me some feedback.

Hello hmmm,

I'm a new guy, and quite interested in your discovery. There seems to have been some interruptions
in the discussion. I should say that I saw this thread, and made a mental note, "Nah!" before even reading through. You know how you do... at least, apparently, I do.

I'd love to see more photos, please. Without shadows, and competing photo real estate, if you could.

What's the current state of the woven bark?

I'd really like to hear, and see more on the Badge Guy finds, as well. How many badges were involved? Were they confiscated and renationalized, or what? Were they found in a similar locale? What were the copper looking pieces with Badge Guy all about?

I'm assuming we're talking about Salishan First Nations folk here. I got more specific tribal wonderings. but will leave that for later.

I was still pretty skeptical, when I met Badge Guy. You swung me nearly 180 with the photo in Post #34. Dim bulbs were going off around here. Where have I seen that guy before?

The object he is holding is described as a "copper shield." I don't know the year of Curtis' photograph, he lived up your way, for a time.

"In battle the men wore red cedar armour and helmets, along with breech clouts made from cedar."

A "shield," eh? "Body armour," makes me wonder, how you think this piece may have been worn? If you're indicating, by that first photo, a vest-like construction, I'd like to know how it might fit on a small person from clavicle down? What are it's dimensions?

Do you know about the Legend of the Spanish Mound?

 

[unclemac]

the copper "shield" that you are showing in the Curtis photo is not a shield in the sense of warfare or protection...it is an opulent display of wealth, but not like money as it would never have been used to purchase anything. Many of these coppers had names and were given away in a Potlatch.

 

[GatorBoy]

Hello it's me mister obvious again....... why has nobody noticed the nail holes



Things like this whent in them.

 

[unclemac]

what year (about) would those nails be?

 

[GatorBoy]

Early 1700's for the round ones late 1700's to early 1800's for the square. I don't see any holes in the "shield" in the photo.

 

[GatorBoy]

Looking closely at the holes... probably more like this...tacks..1800's