Dagger - Need ID - Please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TreasureTales]

Here are some photos of a dagger I dug up about 3 years ago. I know it's a DAGGER, but I don't know who made it, where, and when? I took it to a couple of gun/knive shows and received conflicting information from each guy who looked at it. I've tried to find one like it on the internet, but without success. I'm hoping my fellow TNet members can help answer my questions.

(I just bought a new digital camera today so I could post pix on TNet because seeing everybody else post pix but not being able to do it myself was very frustrating!!!! It's an early Christmas present to myself.)

Overall length is 10 3/4 inches The blade is iron. All the other pieces are bronze.

PHOTOS DELETED DUE TO NEW RULES FOR TREASURENET. TREASURENET REQUESTS NO COPYRIGHTED MATERIALS BE POSTED, MY MATERIAL IS MINE AND SHALL REMAIN MINE, HENCE THE DELETIONS. MY APOLOGIES TO THOSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SEE PHOTOS OF THIS INTERESTING AND OLD DAGGER, BUT MY PROPERTY (PHOTOS, STORIES, ETC.) SHALL REMAIN UNDER MY CONTROL.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Agony and Death on a Gold Rush Steamer: The Disastrous Sinking of the Side-Wheeler Yankee Blade - Grab it through Amazon!

[romeo-1]

I know nothing about the dagger except that it looks like an awesome piece! Where did you dig it?

 

[downindixie]

Your knife is kinda like my two knives,they are 9 1/2" in length and the eagles mouths are not opened.These knives were prizes at fairs in my area for such games as the ring toss.One of my knives is marked "Japan".Mine are from the late 1950's.

 

[BIG61AL]

Not an expert but I get the distinct feeling these have an European influence. The germans were noted for using eagles on their daggers. Also the Romans put eagles on practically everything.

 

[Monty]

Can't give you any info about the dagger, but it is a very interesting find. The way the eagle or harpie or whatever the bird's eyes are hollowed out almost suggest a stone of some kind was once set in the eyes. All the Hitler Youth daggers I ever saw had a swastica on it, ditto German war daggers. My Dad brought one home from the war and it had a clenched eagle claw holdling a swastica. He said it was an SS officers dagger. Come to think of it it might have had a death's head on it too? Anyway, great find! Monty

 

[nhbenz]

This is the only open mouthed German dagger I've seen. http://www.relicsofthereichs.com/UN ATTRIBUTED ARMY.jpg

 

[TreasureTales]

Thanks for the replies, guys. I tend to agree that if it were a Nazi dagger that some type of Nazi symbol would have been an integral part of the design...on one of the bronze pieces. It seems this may actually be a depiction of a falcon rather than an eagle. I say that because of the crest protruding from the back of the birds head, whereas an eagle would probably have a rounded head. I think Poland and other eastern European nations used falcons in their crests. The shape of the blade and the bronze make me ASSUME that it is not 20th century, but I am not at all sure.

 

[Harry_Morant]

I would say it has nothing to do with Nazi Germany - since when do Eagles have ears! It appears to be more of a Griffin Head.

 

[dg39]

Not a nazi dagger for sure.

 

[nhbenz]

Yes, I agree. I'm beginning to think this may have custom made. Short of finding a makers mark on the blade, I'm not too optimistic on an ID.

 

[TreasureTales]

Yes, I agree. I'm beginning to think this may have custom made. Short of finding a makers mark on the blade, I'm not too optimistic on an ID.

Hey nhbenz, thanks for giving the ID a shot. Of course the blade is too decrepid to retain any marks it may have had, and the bronze pieces have no words or marks of any kind--other than the designs. Custom made? Maybe it did belong to a gold miner afterall. The location was right for that, and the guy who offered me the money was certainly sure it was from the mid 19th century. Guess I'll never know for sure, but that's one aspect of treasure hunting that we all have to accept!

 

[AU24K]

Great pictures! Glad you have a digital camera now. Hope we'll see more cool finds of yours.
When I first saw the pictures I thought German. Nazi daggers would probably have the swastica on them. It may predate Nazi. It could be from the Germanic area, i.e. Austria, etc.
Once again, great find!
Scott

 

[Alchemy]

I've kept my eye on daggers on eBay for quite some time now (Roman types)

Yours seems to me to have been very well made and I believe the one dealer about the age being somewhere in the 1850's, only imho, it would seem someone brought that with them from Europe to the US. It also looks like it may be earlier too, like mid 1700's to very early 1800's....just from what I've seen.

I’ll have a look in some of my records to see if there’s anything like this at all.

It’s beautiful and I wish I had found it!

 

[Alchemy]

This is a dagger grip from about WWII (or was it WWI? sheesh, I can't remember), you can see though it's somewhat the same shape, but more stylized or modern looking then yours.

Toledo Swords makes a reproduction where the head of the eagle is very similar to yours.
They’re calling it a German dagger. But, over all it isn't the same (hasn't the quality as would any reproduction lack)

 

[TreasureTales]

Thanks Alchemy, and the rest of you too. I'd like to think the dagger is 150 or more years old. Don't know if it is, but it seems plausible. I know one thing for sure...it had been in the ground for quite awhile because the wood and leather had completely disintegrated. I don't even like to touch it too much because the iron blade is brittle. It's one of my favorite finds, and one of these days I'll take it to a frame shop and get a shadowbox made for it. There are several eagle/falcon/griffin head daggers pictured on the internet, but I haven't seen any that have the same detail, blade shape, and number of bronze components.

 

[Alchemy]

I love stuff like this...

I thought this was interesting. It isn't a dagger, but as I had thought about yours being pre civil war (later 1700's very early 1800's) there is some similarities to yours. But, I think yous still may be a tad bit older.
Also interseting to see, is that your piece may have had ivory as well...not wood and leather or whatever.

http://cgi.ebay.com/PRE-CIVIL-WAR-I...31QQihZ005QQcategoryZ4070QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[TreasureTales]

Hey Alchemy you're a great researcher. Thanks for the link to that sword. It does have some similarities, doesn't it??!!! Now you've got me wondering...did this dagger have an ivory grip? I think ivory would last a lot longer, though, it's basically tooth material, right? Teeth last a long time in the ground, so I guess ivory would, too. Don't know, just know I'd sure like to be able to PROVE the age of the thing. Thanks!

 

[Alchemy]

If the ivory had broken and fallen off, your detector wouldn't have picked it up.....

Ivory gets stress fractures and can break very easy sometimes.
It may well have still been near the dagger (or not, may have been broken before going into the ground)
Can't say for sure unless you get an id on it.

Not everything is on the net...but, it's getting there! I love doing research.

I have far too many items though that I can't get even a tiny bit of info on.
I have about 4 letters with photos out to museums now with different items that I've been trying to find info on. One of them for as long as 20 years (well, on and off trying to id it)

I may post it one day, just to pick some of the brains here


Ok, I edited so I wouldn't have to make another post...
But, I found this and seems this seller is in the same palce as you, but also agrees about the pre civil war time period.
Looks as though his piece has been painted or something too. I'd say they're darn near the same eagle...very close.

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-DAGGER-...oryZ4070QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[nhbenz]

Alchemy, I think your on to something there! The grip you listed earlier appears to be from a WWII German Diplomats dagger... but dang, I think you're right on in your lastest post. Well done. -Ben

 

[TreasureTales]

HOLY CRAP ALCHEMY, you've found the closest thing to it!! There are a few minor differences, but it's darn near the same thing. The eBay seller says it's a knife made from a sword...that's a very interesting statement. Yep, he puts his dagger at pre-CW. FANTASTIC. Thanks so much. Thanks to everybody who gave input, it's all welcome.

Alchemy, you get a tip o' the hat for a job well done!!!