DFX Programming Question: Best Data & Correlate...

GLP403b · Dec 1, 2008

DFX Programming Question: Best Data & Correlate...

:icon_study:

I'm a little confused about 2 parts of the programming. In the 2 FREQ. (BEST DATA) and 2 FREQ. (CORRELATE) mode, if you were to select off, what is the default kHz used by the MD? Meaning, are both frequencies used or just one? I'm still not understanding why you would turn these two options on or off, or use one versus another.

I believe I understand the CORRELATE Mode more than the BEST DATA Mode. If I'm understanding correctly, in the CORRELATE Mode, both frequencies have to agree on a target, otherwise it will not pick it up. Why would you want both frequencies to agree on a target? Would this option be selected (turned on) for high trash areas?

I'm not entirely understanding the BEST DATA Mode and why it would be used or not used and what frequencies the MD uses by default if BEST DATA Mode is turned on or off.

Also, if I'm understanding this correctly, the DFX MD can actually read and transmit 3 frequencies? Meaning, it uses 3, 6.6, and 15 kHz frequencies? I'm also a little confused about that.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Eu_citzen · Dec 1, 2008

Re: DFX Programming Question:

Best data -- Uses both 3Khz and 15 Khz at the same time.
The machine then chooses which one is the most reliable for info on the target in the give conditions.
AKA it chooses the one that should give the best info on the site.

Use?
In clean ground where you hunt for both low and high conductivity targets and on the beach where the salt else could interfere with detecting.

Correlate -- Uses both 3Khz and 15Khz at the same time
The machine compares both and within a margin they should agree. (show similar readings)

Use?
In iron trash, iron can tend to give random signals, now correlate will ignore them.
In interference, interfereance is random in nature and as such correlate will ignore it.

It uses 2 frequencys; 3 Khz and 15 Khz.
Though it has the abilitie to make the readings come up as if you had an XLT which uses around 6.59 Khz.
(refer to VDI normalization)

Why would you not use the 2 frequency options?
Well the other two "raw" frequency's do give a little extra depth on certain targets:
3 Khz is deeper on big and high conductive targets (i.e silver, copper)
15 Khz is deeper on small and low conductive targets (i.e. gold, nickel)

Hope this helps,
Eu

GLP403b · Dec 1, 2008

Re: DFX Programming Question:

Eu_citzen said:
Best data -- Uses both 3Khz and 15 Khz at the same time. At all times in the on or off position? Should this selection be turned on or off at all times? I would think on at all times, no?
The machine then chooses which one is the most reliable for info on the target in the give conditions.
AKA it chooses the one that should give the best info on the site.

Use?
In clean ground where you hunt for both low and high conductivity targets and on the beach where the salt else could interfere with detecting. You would turn on in these areas?

Correlate -- Uses both 3Khz and 15Khz at the same time In the on or off position? Should this selection be turned on or off at all times? Is it used for high trash areas in the on position?
The machine compares both and within a margin they should agree. (show similar readings)

Use?
In iron trash, iron can tend to give random signals, now correlate will ignore them.
In interference, interfereance is random in nature and as such correlate will ignore it. Should this selection be turned on or off at all times? Is it used for high trash areas in the on position?

It uses 2 frequencys; 3 Khz and 15 Khz.
Though it has the abilitie to make the readings come up as if you had an XLT which uses around 6.59 Khz.
(refer to VDI normalization) I have, and it still isn't making any sense to me.

Why would you not use the 2 frequency options? This I understand. But I would always want to use these two frequencies and ALWAYS find anything and everything and not limit my target finds.
Well the other two "raw" frequency's do give a little extra depth on certain targets:
3 Khz is deeper on big and high conductive targets (i.e silver, copper)
15 Khz is deeper on small and low conductive targets (i.e. gold, nickel)

Hope this helps, Not really Eu but BEST DATA "SEEMS" to be making more sense. Thanks for trying.
Eu

In essence, isn't BEST DATA and CORRELATE really transmitting the same "end result" to the user from what I read in your explanation?

Eu_citzen · Dec 1, 2008

Re: DFX Programming Question: Best Data & Correlate...

Best data -- Uses both 3Khz and 15 Khz at the same time. At all times in the on or off position? Should this selection be turned on or off at all times? I would think on at all times, no?
The machine then chooses which one is the most reliable for info on the target in the give conditions.
AKA it chooses the one that should give the best info on the site.

Use?
In clean ground where you hunt for both low and high conductivity targets and on the beach where the salt else could interfere with detecting. You would turn on in these areas?

You do choose the frequency depending on where and what your hunting for.
You can't use i.e. Correlate and Best Data at the same time.
It does not have to be on all the time.
Yes thats an example of where it would be a good choice to use.

Correlate -- Uses both 3Khz and 15Khz at the same time In the on or off position? Should this selection be turned on or off at all times? Is it used for high trash areas in the on position?
The machine compares both and within a margin they should agree. (show similar readings)

Use?
In iron trash, iron can tend to give random signals, now correlate will ignore them.
In interference, interference is random in nature and as such correlate will ignore it. Should this selection be turned on or off at all times? Is it used for high trash areas in the on position?

God mate, you think to seem to think this is a feature like i.e. VCO, it is not!
You can only use one frequency option at a time, i.e correlate and Best data can't be used at the same time.

See "Use?" to see where you would have it ON, thats where it would be good to have it on.

You will not limit your finds by using a "raw" frequency (aka only one i.e. 3 Khz)
3Khz will give you some extra depth on high conductive targets compared to i.e. Correlate.

In essence, isn't BEST DATA and CORRELATE really transmitting the same information to the user from what I read in your explanation?

No they are transmitting the same FREQUENCY'S to the ground though how the machine processes the data it gets is not the same.

Does this get clearer now?

GLP403b · Dec 1, 2008

Re: DFX Programming Question: Best Data & Correlate...

Eu_citzen said:
Best data -- Uses both 3Khz and 15 Khz at the same time. At all times in the on or off position? Should this selection be turned on or off at all times? I would think on at all times, no?
The machine then chooses which one is the most reliable for info on the target in the give conditions.
AKA it chooses the one that should give the best info on the site.

Use?
In clean ground where you hunt for both low and high conductivity targets and on the beach where the salt else could interfere with detecting. You would turn on in these areas?

Click to expand...

You do choose the frequency depending on where and what your hunting for.
You can't use i.e. Correlate and Best Data at the same time.
It does not have to be on all the time.
Yes thats an example of where it would be a good choice to use.

Correlate -- Uses both 3Khz and 15Khz at the same time In the on or off position? Should this selection be turned on or off at all times? Is it used for high trash areas in the on position?
The machine compares both and within a margin they should agree. (show similar readings)

Use?
In iron trash, iron can tend to give random signals, now correlate will ignore them.
In interference, interference is random in nature and as such correlate will ignore it. Should this selection be turned on or off at all times? Is it used for high trash areas in the on position?

Click to expand...

God mate, you think to seem to think this is a feature like i.e. VCO, it is not! God mate WTF! DON'T ASSUME ANYTHING because I'm not thinking it's any kind of feature, I'm trying to understand the concept...MATE! JESUS!
You can only use one frequency option at a time, i.e correlate and Best data can't be used at the same time.

See "Use?" to see where you would have it ON, thats where it would be good to have it on.

You will not limit your finds by using a "raw" frequency (aka only one i.e. 3 Khz)
3Khz will give you some extra depth on high conductive targets compared to i.e. Correlate.

In essence, isn't BEST DATA and CORRELATE really transmitting the same information to the user from what I read in your explanation?

Click to expand...

No they are transmitting the same FREQUENCY'S to the ground though how the machine processes the data it gets is not the same. I didn't mention anything about frequencies. I said, isn't the "end result" pretty much the same thing with both BEST DATA and CORRELATE

Does this get clearer now? No, it doesn't. You have confused me even more. And I certainly don't appreciate your facetious remarks either!!! You certainly don't exercise any patience when it comes to explaining things, now do you?!!!

GLP403b · Dec 1, 2008

Re: DFX Programming Question: Best Data & Correlate...

Does anyone else have a better explanation to my confusion?

The MATE in Sweden states that BEST DATA is "The machine then chooses which one is the most reliable for info on the target in the give conditions." He then goes on to explain that CORRELATE is "The machine compares both and within a margin they should agree. (show similar readings)." If both options can't be used at the same time, that translates to me that the same "end result" which is "MOST RELIABLE" or "AGREE" is given to the user, just with different terms being used. Hence, I can "agree" to do something OR, I can "reliably" ensure that something has been done. Same "end result", just different information and/or terminology being used.

Please be aware that I haven't received my unit yet. I just ordered it, so I'm reading up on it and also watched the 10 videos at the whiteselectronics WebSite several times.

Please advise and thanks in advance.

Eu_citzen · Dec 1, 2008

Re: DFX Programming Question: Best Data & Correlate...

God mate WTF! DON'T ASSUME ANYTHING because I'm not thinking it's any kind of feature, I'm trying to understand the concept...MATE! JESUS!

Then I am sorry mate, thats what I got out of your posts.
Welcome by the way, I see your new.

I shall try to answer your questions from another angle. Bit by bit, this will make it easier for me. :tongue3:

I'm a thick headed guy, know that, but I ain't mean by intention. :coffee2:

I'm a little confused about 2 parts of the programming. In the 2 FREQ. (BEST DATA) and 2 FREQ. (CORRELATE) mode, if you were to select off, what is the default kHz used by the MD? Meaning, are both frequencies used or just one? I'm still not understanding why you would turn these two options on or off, or use one versus another.

The default frequency's are 3Khz and 15Khz as you may know.
If you turn one off you will need to turn another one on.
In correlate and best data both 3Khz and 15Khz are used at the same time.

With the correlate and Best data both frequencys are used. But you can change this with the other settings.

You will do perfectly find with both most of the time, though there might be a place say a park where you suspect there is deep silver then 3 Khz only will give you more depth on silver in comparison to Best data.

Or at the beach you might be looking for small gold jewelry on the dry sand, 15 Khz only will give you a bit extra sensitivity towards small gold in comparison to Best Data.

I believe I understand the CORRELATE Mode more than the BEST DATA Mode. If I'm understanding correctly, in the CORRELATE Mode, both frequencies have to agree on a target, otherwise it will not pick it up. Why would you want both frequencies to agree on a target? Would this option be selected (turned on) for high trash areas?

Yes you are correct they have to agree on a target.
Interference is often random (not structured) and thus both frequency's can never agree with each other and it won't give a signal.
This might help you to turn up sensitivity a bit more in places where there is much interference.
Yes you can turn it on for high trash areas, especially when there is much iron there it will help greatly in iron.

I'm not entirely understanding the BEST DATA Mode and why it would be used or not used and what frequencies the MD uses by default if BEST DATA Mode is turned on or off.

Often this depends on personal preference and your specific ground conditions.
For example when you are uncertain of the ground conditions it is great to use this (Best data) as the machine will pick the best suited frequency for you.

Also, if I'm understanding this correctly, the DFX MD can actually read and transmit 3 frequencies? Meaning, it uses 3, 6.6, and 15 kHz frequencies? I'm also a little confused about that.

It can transmit 2 frequencys though it can "translate" the info to the 6.6 Khz frequency.
Sort of like translating one language to another.

When you get the detector try this:
get a nickel coin and a penny and use 15 Khz only with VDI normalization on then run the nickel over the coil, note the VDI number of both the nickel and penny.

Now do the same thing with VDI normalization off, you will notice that it will not give the same VDI number

It says the same thing, just in a different language so to say.
VDI normalization translates this to the language the XLT uses...(XLT uses 6.59 Khz approximately)
This makes it easier for those who changed from the XLT to the DFX and it also seems to have been a standard "language".

GLP403b · Dec 1, 2008

Re: DFX Programming Question: Best Data & Correlate...

Eu_citzen said:
God mate WTF! DON'T ASSUME ANYTHING because I'm not thinking it's any kind of feature, I'm trying to understand the concept...MATE! JESUS!

Click to expand...

Then I am sorry mate, thats what I got out of your posts.
Welcome by the way, I see your new.

I shall try to answer your questions from another angle. Bit by bit, this will make it easier for me.
I'm a thick headed guy, know that, but I ain't mean by intention.

Apology accepted. It makes more sense, yes. Thanks! Yep, I'm new which I stated in my very first posting. ::)

For a newbie, I think it was a pretty good question and from the information I got from your numerous explanations, I can understand how these two features would be confusing to a newbie. I understand everything else for the most part.

Eu_citzen · Dec 1, 2008

Re: DFX Programming Question: Best Data & Correlate...

Thanks. :icon_sunny:

Out of curiosity, have you ordered the Digging deeper with the DFX by Jeff Foster? (a book)

If so when you get it look at page 106 for more info, maybe he tells it better then me. :thumbsup:

GLP403b · Dec 1, 2008

Re: DFX Programming Question: Best Data & Correlate...

Eu_citzen said:
Also, if I'm understanding this correctly, the DFX MD can actually read and transmit 3 frequencies? Meaning, it uses 3, 6.6, and 15 kHz frequencies? I'm also a little confused about that.

Click to expand...

It can transmit 2 frequencys though it can "translate" the info to the 6.6 Khz frequency.
Sort of like translating one language to another.

When you get the detector try this:
get a nickel coin and a penny and use 15 Khz only with VDI normalization on then run the nickel over the coil, note the VDI number of both the nickel and penny.

Now do the same thing with VDI normalization off, you will notice that it will not give the same VDI number

It says the same thing, just in a different language so to say.
VDI normalization translates this to the language the XLT uses...(XLT uses 6.59 Khz approximately)
This makes it easier for those who changed from the XLT to the DFX and it also seems to have been a standard "language".

So since I never had an XLT, this information really doesn't matter to me then, does it? I should probably always leave VDI Normalization on, right?

GLP403b · Dec 1, 2008

Re: DFX Programming Question: Best Data & Correlate...

Eu_citzen said:
Thanks.

Out of curiosity, have you ordered the Digging deeper with the DFX by Jeff Foster? (a book)

If so when you get it look at page 106 for more info, maybe he tells it better then me.

Yes, I already ordered the book from Amazon.

Eu_citzen · Dec 1, 2008

Re: DFX Programming Question: Best Data & Correlate...

Well actually GLP it is not an option that can be adjusted when using Best Data and Correlate.
(in other words in can't be turned off in Best Data and Correlate)

Though it does not matter when using 3 or 15 Khz only, there you can adjust it freely.

On my dfx there is a white box that refers to what each VDI number could be.. I don't know if you have it on the dfx300 though if you have it will be with VDI normalization on.

So yes it does matter to you I think.

Good the book is great info, as I might think you've heard.

GLP403b · Dec 1, 2008

Re: DFX Programming Question: Best Data & Correlate...

Eu_citzen said:
Well actually GLP it is not an option that can be adjusted when using Best Data and Correlate.
(in other words in can't be turned off in Best Data and Correlate)

Though it does not matter when using 3 or 15 Khz only, there you can adjust it freely.

On my dfx there is a white box that refers to what each VDI number could be.. I don't know if you have it on the dfx300 though if you have it will be with VDI normalization on.

So yes it does matter to you I think.

Now it makes sense. I guess it would be helpful if I had the unit in front of me as well.

Good the book is great info, as I might think you've heard.

Yes, I've heard. I see you use the same Mine Lab Model as our friend of the family uses. How do you like it compared to the DFX?

Schrecky · Dec 2, 2008

Re: DFX Programming Question: Best Data & Correlate...

You are going to enjoy "Digging Deeper" when you get it.

Also, you can check the tons of info at www.dfxonly.com

Eu_citzen · Dec 2, 2008

Re: DFX Programming Question: Best Data & Correlate...

Hello again.

I did a comparison on another forum.. Here is one now that I have more expereince with the MineLab. :thumbsup:

While the DFX prefers a quick sweep speed and it does great in aluminum trash and it is unbeatable as a modern coin shooter.
The sheer amount of adjustments makes it very adjustable and as such it is easy to screw up some settings and loose some depth.
It is a great all rounder but it can wear thin when relic hunting for deep none ferrous items. (none iron items)
Also it can wear thin on the beach and when hunting for deep silver.
The discrimination offers much info and as such you can dig i.e. bottle caps close to iron. :tongue3:

The tones can be hard to tell the difference between, but since I dig all none iron targets anyways that doesn't bother me.
The Signagraph is one of the best sources for info, try to learn it together with the VDI reading, you will note they are often pretty close to each other. I only base my digs on the Signagraph if I'm not sure I look at the VDI number for reference.
Try to get used to the Tone ID as soon as possible, it will be a great aid.
You can use the settings and such to adjust to the site, thus a lot of programming can be done.
And also add the abilty to change coils will help to adjust to the conditions even more

The Explorer II prefers a slow sweep speed and it does best in ferrous (iron) trash where the ferrous tones (a feature) will help to tell iron from none iron it is also great at the beach where you'd dig all none ferrous signals. It goes deeper and is easier to adjust to get out more depth. (not as many settings)
Here you will only have to noise cancel (aka cut of electro magnetic interference, EMI) and maybe adjust sensitivity, sometimes changing coil is all needed to be able to work better in certain areas.
It is defiantly deeper then the DFX but the guy with the DFX can run circles around the lad with the Explorer so in the end both end up with good finds.
I as many others base our choice to dig or not to dig on the sound it makes, the tone ID feels more "alive" then on the DFX, it is hard to describe it..

Try your friends Explorer if you may, maybe you'll understand what i mean when you compare the DFX's Tone ID with the Explorer's Tone ID.

A lot of text, if there is something you don't understand let me know and I'll try to clarify it.
Now know that I use them both for different things; i.e. the DFX for modern coin shooting and the Explorer for relic, beach detecting and "hunted out" areas. (where finds are scare with the DFX)

Hope this helps,
Eu

GLP403b · Dec 2, 2008

Re: DFX Programming Question: Best Data & Correlate...

Eu_citzen said:
Hello again. I did a comparison on another forum.. Here is one now that I have more expereince with the MineLab.

While the DFX prefers a quick sweep speed and it does great in aluminum trash and it is unbeatable as a modern coin shooter.
The sheer amount of adjustments makes it very adjustable and as such it is easy to screw up some settings and loose some depth.
It is a great all rounder but it can wear thin when relic hunting for deep none ferrous items. (none iron items)
Also it can wear thin on the beach and when hunting for deep silver.
The discrimination offers much info and as such you can dig i.e. bottle caps close to iron.
The tones can be hard to tell the difference between, but since I dig all none iron targets anyways that doesn't bother me.
The Signagraph is one of the best sources for info, try to learn it together with the VDI reading, you will note they are often pretty close to each other. I only base my digs on the Signagraph if I'm not sure I look at the VDI number for reference.
Try to get used to the Tone ID as soon as possible, it will be a great aid.
You can use the settings and such to adjust to the site, thus a lot of programming can be done.
And also add the abilty to change coils will help to adjust to the conditions even more

The Explorer II prefers a slow sweep speed and it does best in ferrous (iron) trash where the ferrous tones (a feature) will help to tell iron from none iron it is also great at the beach where you'd dig all none ferrous signals. It goes deeper and is easier to adjust to get out more depth. (not as many settings)
Here you will only have to noise cancel (aka cut of electro magnetic interference, EMI) and maybe adjust sensitivity, sometimes changing coil is all needed to be able to work better in certain areas.
It is defiantly deeper then the DFX but the guy with the DFX can run circles around the lad with the Explorer so in the end both end up with good finds.
I as many others base our choice to dig or not to dig on the sound it makes, the tone ID feels more "alive" then on the DFX, it is hard to describe it..

Try your friends Explorer if you may, maybe you'll understand what i mean when you compare the DFX's Tone ID with the Explorer's Tone ID.

A lot of text, if there is something you don't understand let me know and I'll try to clarify it.
Now know that I use them both for different things; i.e. the DFX for modern coin shooting and the Explorer for relic, beach detecting and "hunted out" areas. (where finds are scare with the DFX)

Hope this helps,
Eu