Dick Holmes clues

[Idahodutch]

The German clue in regards to the saddle obove the LDM, says "

" Von meiner lagerstatte wenn du im sattel sitz kannst du in ferne im suden durch ein loch vom Berg sehen " . This sentence is translated in English ( and Black Line who is a German citizen and also a Tnet member , confirmed this translation ) as:

" From my storage area when you sit in the saddle you can see in the distance to the south through a hole in the mountain ".

The first translation " From my camp in the saddle you will see a peak in the distance to the south with a hole " is mistranslated and send many good people in the wrong place, and those who continue to support this translation are wasting their money and time.

Actually, the hole in the mountain is the tunnel where the miners were leaving their mining gear, and was the passage from the saddle to the trail downhill to the mines. This tunnel was mentioned by Waltz to Julia, telling her " The tunnel entrance is supposed to be shaped like a bell ".
Also, this tunnel/passage was mentioned by Doc Thorne in Jim Bark's notes. There are also another stories who mention that tunnel, like the Two Soldiers and Joe Deering's.
So, this clue is one which was validated and should be taken in consideration more than other.

Good morning Markmar,
I know there is much debate about translation.
I am curious, if your translation is the correct one, how are we to see off in the distance, to the south, a small opening shaped like a bell, that is on another mountain ..... especially when the hole is man sized?
Just your opinion of how Waltz could see a small opening to a tunnel, no bigger than a fat man, over on a distant mountain.

Not trying to pick a fight, just curious how even Waltz could have seen it from a distance.
For you to say it has been validated, is not correct, unless you mean is has been validated .... in your opinion.
Stories are stories, and are what dreams are made of. Sometimes there can be truth involved, and sometimes not.

There is one part of the ?hole?, tunnel, trick in trail, Waltz? secret final instructions from saddle to Holmes ..... and in particular the bit about the Apache having filled it all up. Tossed the mining tools into the shaft mine, and covered .... everything?

Not many talk about the trick in the trail. You have said that is because it was burried up by the Apache, in different thread. And that is why nobody has found the trick in the trail.

Do you have a copy of that story? One of the things we are planning to investigate on this next trip, is to see if perhaps there is truth to the story and if it applies to the LDM, or just another story.

Thanks Markmar,
Idahodutch.

 

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[skyhawk1251]

What follows below are posts to another online forum, and which provide supplementary information on what was called the "military trail" and another lost mine tale that I rarely see mentioned. Do not reply to the quoted text below, because the people who posted will not see your replies. As far as what is contained in these posts, I can only dispute one point pertaining to "the board house." It was not and is not the Quarter Circle U ranch house. The board house was demolished long ago per Tex Barkley's orders. See a recent "Mysteries of the Superstition Mountains" YouTube video that explains all this ("The Board House Clue").

I've included the post about the Polka Lost Mine just to remind everyone that there are a lot of lost mine tales connected to lost mines, so the lucky Dutch hunter to find a hidden shaft with its rich vein might not have found the LDM. It could be another of those "lost mines." Only a scientific analysis and match to the matchbox ore will verify that the LDM has been found.

"Horse Camp Basin is the area where Brownie Holmes found a 40-acre site of cut mesquite stumps. It is also where the remains of a work camp were found, barrels gone to hoops and staves, new horse shoes, etc. It was also known as the Soldier Camp. One of the oldest trails in the Superstions goes by there, the Old Spanish Trail. Estee Conaster has it starting into the mountains near Miner's Needle, going through the Whiskey Springs area, through La Barge Box, and northward along the east side of the range that is formed by Herman Mountain, Sheep Mountain, Music Mountain, and onward to the Salt River. Since it went past what was known as the Soldier Camp, could this have been what Jacob Waltz referred to as the Military Trail?" -- von kidd

"Horse Camp Basin is on the east side of Music Mountain, which is to the south of Peter's Mesa. The Hoolie Bacon trail would take you there from the south. Check the Weaver's Needle topo. I forgot to mention a couple of other clues that suggest that this portion of the Old Spanish Trail is what Jacob Waltz refered to as the military trail.

First, he told Julia and Rhiney that they could ride in a wagon (with him on a cot in the wagon bed) as far as the board house. This was the Quarter Circle U ranch house. Jacob told them that he could point out the trail to take over the mountains to them from there. This is where the Old Spanish Trail entered the Superstitions near Miner's Needle. It goes north past Whiskey Springs and enters La Barge Box, following it to the east and turning north from there along the Hoolie Bacon trail. Second, Jacob also told Julia and Rhiney that if they came to three red hills they've gone too far. Near the east end of La Barge Box and the point where the trail turns north is one of the two places in the Superstitions where there is found three red hills in a group." -- von kidd

"The three red hills are there, I saw them myself on my last trip into the Superstitions. After you come out of La Barge Box and continue to follow the trail east, they are to the north before you hit the Hoolie Bacon trail." -- von kidd

"The three red hills located east of the upper La Barge Box are mentioned in the Hiker's Guide (page 179), but their exact position is not discussed, nor are they shown or annotated on any of the guide's inset maps. This group of red hills has been mentioned as a candidate for the landmark shown on the Haywood/Kochera map, which shows the hills in relation to a box canyon. Tom Kollenborn wrote that the Haywood story was very similar to the Lost Polka Mine story, apparently in regard to certain clues let out by Haywood and Polka, including the rock that formed alternating layers of red and black material and was filled with gold.

Jim Butler, who was active in the mountains with Chuck Aylor and others, was searching for the mine associated with the Polka story as early as the mid 1950's. Bob Ward also partnered with Aylor for awhile in search of the Lost Polka Mine.

JJ Polka, as the story goes, was an Apache Indian who had entered the mountains with a friend to retrieve gold from one of the hidden Peralta mines. He successfully retrieved some of the gold but became spooked, leaving the mountains and vowing never to return. He later drew several maps to the mine for another friend, two versions of which appear in the maps section of this site. Val Paris (Bob Ward) later found the remains of Polka's camp, and also recovered a small Bull Durham tobacco sack (rotted) filled with eight gold nuggets the size of quarters, apparently dropped by Polka when he fled the mountains. The nuggets later analyzed out to 90 percent pure. Paris (Ward) never found the mine Polka had described, although he apparently found several tunnels and some very old mining tools in a ravine not far from Polka's camp. Months (years?) later, he searched the ridge above the tunnels and found a shaft surrounded by heavy brush, indicating that it had not been worked in a very long time. The shaft was flooded to within 50 feet of the top, and Ward's theory was that the tunnels were being dug in order to reach an ore body or to drain the shaft. It is not clear if he was ever successful in draining or exploring the shaft himself.

Other clues to the Lost Polka Mine included a trail of cut yucca (cut by Polka in the 1950's), a flat rock with a saguaro growing on it (Polka's camp), and a triangle of rocks located near the mine. La Barge Mountain is the area where some believe the Polka (Haywood) mine is located." -- Ozarker

 

[skyhawk1251]

"Skyhawk -- As far as I know, there are at least two landmarks south of Waltz's bonanza. According to Waltz, they can be seen from a place above his mine; one is a high needle, another is a peak with a hole through it. (This is part of the German clues, and the translation is debated). I do not believe Waltz was talking about the same landmark, but two different landmarks. One landmark, the high needle, seems to have the general consensus of being Weaver's Needle. The other landmark, does not have consensus from the Dutch hunting community, that I have noticed.

So a peak with a hole through it, and perhaps not too far from Weaver's Needle, but off in the distance, yet can see it still ... the hole through it. I believe something caught Waltz's eye one of the times he was above the mine. Something that let him notice the peak with a hole through it. South of Four Peaks, is Weaver's Needle, but also south is Palomino Mountain, home to Aylor's Arch. Later in the afternoon, and perhaps only during certain times of the year, Aylor's Arch lights up like a lit house window at dusk. It would catch your eye for sure, especially as it is lighting up.

Try drawing a straight line from four peaks to Palomino Mountain ... it looks to go near that "hole" you found, depending on what part of Palomino your line goes to." -- Idahodutch

As I recall, my line drawn through the summits of all four peaks, and extended beyond Weaver's Needle passed slightly east of my line drawn directly from Brown's Peak to Weaver's Needle. The divergence between the two lines was not great, and well within what I consider the limits of error. Drawing a line directly from Brown's Peak to Weaver's Needle is "close enough" to apply to the LDM "clues." The "depression/hole" I spotted on Palomino Mountain using GE I would give a reliability factor of no more than 50%, although it is very apparent even in an extreme wide-angle view. It would not be too far from the Four Peaks/Weaver's Needle compass line. Aylor's Arch can be spotted using GE. Yes, it is an eye-catching landmark when sunlight shines through it.

 

[azdave35]

As I recall, my line drawn through the summits of all four peaks, and extended beyond Weaver's Needle passed slightly east of my line drawn directly from Brown's Peak to Weaver's Needle. The divergence between the two lines was not great, and well within what I consider the limits of error. Drawing a line directly from Brown's Peak to Weaver's Needle is "close enough" to apply to the LDM "clues." The "depression/hole" I spotted on Palomino Mountain using GE I would give a reliability factor of no more than 50%, although it is very apparent even in an extreme wide-angle view. It would not be too far from the Four Peaks/Weaver's Needle compass line. Aylor's Arch can be spotted using GE. Yes, it is an eye-catching landmark when sunlight shines through it.

when drawing a line down 4 peaks either on a topo or GE you are dealing with a pinpoint on top of a map or ge..in reality those peaks are pretty wide near the top which leaves a huge margin for error....in reality there are multiple places where those peaks could appear to line up from 15 miles away and standing on the ground...if waltz ever used that as a clue (and there is no evidence he did)...then there are a hundred places that those peaks could appear to line up when looking at them from ground level...

 

[skyhawk1251]

"The German clue in regards to the saddle obove the LDM, says "Von meiner lagerstatte wenn du im sattel sitz kannst du in ferne im suden durch ein loch vom Berg sehen ." This sentence is translated in English (and Black Line who is a German citizen and also a Tnet member, confirmed this translation) as: "From my storage area when you sit in the saddle you can see in the distance to the south through a hole in the mountain."

The first translation, "From my camp in the saddle you will see a peak in the distance to the south with a hole", is mistranslated and send many good people to the wrong place, and those who continue to support this translation are wasting their money and time. Actually, the hole in the mountain is the tunnel where the miners were leaving their mining gear, and was the passage from the saddle to the trail downhill to the mines. This tunnel was mentioned by Waltz to Julia, telling her "The tunnel entrance is supposed to be shaped like a bell." Also, this tunnel/passage was mentioned by Doc Thorne in Jim Bark's notes. There are also other stories that mention that tunnel, like the Two Soldiers and Joe Deering's. So, this clue is one which was validated and should be taken in consideration more than others." -- markmar

"Good morning markmar. I know there is much debate about that translation. I am curious, if your translation is the correct one, how are we to see off in the distance, to the south, a small opening shaped like a bell, that is on another mountain ... especially when the hole is man-sized? Just your opinion of how Waltz could see a small opening to a tunnel, no bigger than a fat man, over on a distant mountain.

Not trying to pick a fight, just curious how even Waltz could have seen it from a distance. For you to say it has been validated, is not correct, unless you mean it has been validated, in your opinion. Stories are stories, and are what dreams are made of. Sometimes there can be truth involved, and sometimes not.

Not many talk about the trick in the trail. You have said that is because it was buried by the Apaches, in a different thread, and that is why nobody has found the trick in the trail. Do you have a copy of that story? One of the things we are planning to investigate on this next trip is to see if perhaps there is truth to the story and if it applies to the LDM, or if it is just another story. Thanks, markmar." -- Idahodutch

In a TV episode, which can be viewed as a YouTube video, Wayne Tuttle guides two "explorers" to a man-made tunnel in the Superstition Mountains. Unfortunately, I don't remember the name of the TV series, but it is not the series starring Wayne, Frank, Woody, and others. The tunnel height is no more than that of a tall man. Horses cannot be taken through it. A "trick in the trail" could be a trail that is indistinct and that veers sharply away from another well-traveled trail, nothing more than a side trail, easily missed.

 

[skyhawk1251]

"When drawing a line down 4 peaks either on a topo or GE you are dealing with a pinpoint on top of a map or GE. In reality those peaks are pretty wide near the top which leaves a huge margin for error. In reality there are multiple places where those peaks could appear to line up from 15 miles away and standing on the ground. If waltz ever used that as a clue (and there is no evidence he did), then there are a hundred places that those peaks could appear to line up when looking at them from ground level." -- azdave35

Absolutely true, and that's a contributing factor as to why the LDM hasn't been found. We can only work with the "clues" as they are, which aren't much. The search keeps the mind busy, though, and is more stimulating than watching reruns on TV. As the years go by, I become more and more convinced that some people who claim to be Dutch hunters really don't want the LDM to be found. If they did, they would be going into the mountains to investigate every plausible possibility and fully disclose the results of their investigations, so that unproductive locations could be discarded, and searchers could then move on to other locations. Having a "secret location" and then dying with that "secret" does nobody any good; it just keeps the quest going in an endless circle.

 

[azdave35]

Absolutely true, and that's a contributing factor as to why the LDM hasn't been found. We can only work with the "clues" as they are, which aren't much. The search keeps the mind busy, though, and is more stimulating than watching reruns on TV. As the years go by, I become more and more convinced that some people who claim to be Dutch hunters really don't want the LDM to be found. If they did, they would be going into the mountains to investigate every plausible possibility and fully disclose the results of their investigations, so that unproductive locations could be discarded, and searchers could then move on to other locations. Having a "secret location" and then dying with that "secret" does nobody any good; it just keeps the quest going in an endless circle.

and then there are those that think the ldm has already been found

 

[PotBelly Jim]

As far as what is contained in these posts, I can only dispute one point pertaining to "the board house." It was not and is not the Quarter Circle U ranch house. The board house was demolished long ago per Tex Barkley's orders. See a recent "Mysteries of the Superstition Mountains" YouTube video that explains all this ("The Board House Clue").

Hi Skyhawk,

The location given for the board house (built by Matt Cavaness) is indeed the very same location where the QCU ranch buildings and yard are located today.

I would keep the location given in the video in the back of your mind, as it's interesting and denying there was a board house there at some time may be a mistake. But to say the board house in Waltz's clue wasn't at the current QCU ranch is probably a bigger mistake

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Also, I've not been following this thread so I'm unsure how this applies to the "Holmes clues" as I think this board house thing is pure Julia/Rhiney. I don't want to interfere with the thread, but if you're interested in the board house clue:

It's been pointed out ad nauseum that there wasn't a woman and children living at the board house in the late 1880's/early 1890's when Waltz supposedly discussed this. Matthew has made a compelling case, IMO, that the board house at the QCU might have been confused, by Dutch Hunters, with a house that was actually at the Milk Ranch. Which seems to have had a woman and children living there at the time. I remember asking Matthew about this specifically not long ago, so the info is on this forum somewhere but I don't have time right now to dig it up.

 

[azdave35]

Also, I've not been following this thread so I'm unsure how this applies to the "Holmes clues" as I think this board house thing is pure Julia/Rhiney. I don't want to interfere with the thread, but if you're interested in the board house clue:

It's been pointed out ad nauseum that there wasn't a woman and children living at the board house in the late 1880's/early 1890's when Waltz supposedly discussed this. Matthew has made a compelling case, IMO, that the board house at the QCU might have been confused, by Dutch Hunters, with a house that was actually at the Milk Ranch. Which seems to have had a woman and children living there at the time. I remember asking Matthew about this specifically not long ago, so the info is on this forum somewhere but I don't have time right now to dig it up.

the rock house is still there by the old milk ranch...at least part of it...the walls are only about a foot tall now

 

[Idahodutch]

Absolutely true, and that's a contributing factor as to why the LDM hasn't been found. We can only work with the "clues" as they are, which aren't much. The search keeps the mind busy, though, and is more stimulating than watching reruns on TV. As the years go by, I become more and more convinced that some people who claim to be Dutch hunters really don't want the LDM to be found. If they did, they would be going into the mountains to investigate every plausible possibility and fully disclose the results of their investigations, so that unproductive locations could be discarded, and searchers could then move on to other locations. Having a "secret location" and then dying with that "secret" does nobody any good; it just keeps the quest going in an endless circle.

Skyhawk,
I have pondered the same thing.... about why many that are called Dutch hunters, seem to be all tuckered out.
When the clue from a Holmes Manuscript, about how to locate the hidden camp, came to life a few months ago,
There was a lot of interest, and I felt like I had to go. I know it does make a difference if it is happening in your own search area
If it was in someone else?s search area, i would definitely check it out as much as I could without going in, then, IDK.
Maybe just keep an eye for any developments.

I would bet, it boils down to either time, money, physical condition, and drive.
.... oh and if it pops up in your own search area, or elsewhere.

I think once you have the dutchman bug, it may go dormant, but still there
Idahodutch

 

[skyhawk1251]

For Idahodutch --

"Skyhawk -- I have pondered the same thing ... about why many that are called Dutch hunters, seem to be all tuckered out. When the clue from a Holmes Manuscript, about how to locate the hidden camp, came to life a few months ago, there was a lot of interest, and I felt like I had to go. I know it does make a difference if it is happening in your own search area. If it was in someone else's search area, I would definitely check it out as much as I could without going in, then, IDK. Maybe just keep an eye out for any developments. I would bet, it boils down to either time, money, physical condition, and drive." -- Idahodutch

If someone was willing to share the location of their "favorite spot", I would not hesitate to offer assistance in exploring it, but I wouldn't go any farther than permitted, which might not be any more than taking photographs and taking measurements. My "lust for gold" doesn't include hard-rock mining, or violating federal laws and regulations. I like being a free man; that is more precious than buckets of gold. My word of honor is also more important to me than any amount of gold.

If your trip into the mountains takes place as planned, you might have some spare time to explore my "mystery mine." Doing so should not take one man more than one day, or just part of a day. My trip there could then supplement your visit to the site, as I plan to be at the site for multiple days. Your trip to the site could win you the unofficial "show-and-tell award" for 2021 in this forum. If this is of interest, I can PM with details.

 

[Idahodutch]

For Idahodutch --



If someone was willing to share the location of their "favorite spot", I would not hesitate to offer assistance in exploring it, but I wouldn't go any farther than permitted, which might not be any more than taking photographs and taking measurements. My "lust for gold" doesn't include hard-rock mining, or violating federal laws and regulations. I like being a free man; that is more precious than buckets of gold. My word of honor is also more important to me than any amount of gold.

If your trip into the mountains takes place as planned, you might have some spare time to explore my "mystery mine." Doing so should not take one man more than one day, or just part of a day. My trip there could then supplement your visit to the site, as I plan to be at the site for multiple days. Your trip to the site could win you the unofficial "show-and-tell award" for 2021 in this forum. If this is of interest, I can PM with details.

Skyhawk,
You may get there before my trip, if you?re talking 2021.
The condition of my spine, is not good. I have bone on bone between vertebrae in many places of my lower back.
There is a procedure, that I have had done two times so far. I get the nerves burned ... neuroablations.
The average span of relief varies, and for me it seems to be around 9 or 10 months. I waited a year between the two I had done, and it was too long. The 2nd worked good, once I got it done. That was just prior to our last trip.
Those last 2 months, especially the last one, were not good. There was tremendous discomfort as the nerves healed, or started working again, or whatever it is that happens. I?m going to call and see about scheduling it sooner, but still will need to wait. I am already having to be a little ginger as I move around, and it is only September.
I certainly plan to go earlier than last time (was April), so target is Feb/March on this trip.

If you?re ok waiting on an answer, maybe we can revisit this conversation in a few months?
Idahodutch

 

[Idahodutch]

Good morning Markmar,
I know there is much debate about translation.
I am curious, if your translation is the correct one, how are we to see off in the distance, to the south, a small opening shaped like a bell, that is on another mountain ..... especially when the hole is man sized?
Just your opinion of how Waltz could see a small opening to a tunnel, no bigger than a fat man, over on a distant mountain.

Not trying to pick a fight, just curious how even Waltz could have seen it from a distance.
For you to say it has been validated, is not correct, unless you mean is has been validated .... in your opinion.
Stories are stories, and are what dreams are made of. Sometimes there can be truth involved, and sometimes not.

There is one part of the ?hole?, tunnel, trick in trail, Waltz? secret final instructions from saddle to Holmes ..... and in particular the bit about the Apache having filled it all up. Tossed the mining tools into the shaft mine, and covered .... everything?

Not many talk about the trick in the trail. You have said that is because it was burried up by the Apache, in different thread. And that is why nobody has found the trick in the trail.

Do you have a copy of that story? One of the things we are planning to investigate on this next trip, is to see if perhaps there is truth to the story and if it applies to the LDM, or just another story.

Thanks Markmar,
Idahodutch.

Markmar,
I might have misunderstood what you were saying with what you consider correct translation.
I took the part of ....peak in the distance, to the south .... to be a different mountain, than the one the saddle is attached to. If you are saying that the distant peak is some part of the low ridge, then I am able to imagine where an opening to a tunnel that small, could be seen from the saddle.

I apologize for the criticism,
Idahodutch

 

[skyhawk1251]

"Skyhawk -- You may get there before my trip, if you're talking 2021. The condition of my spine, is not good. I have bone on bone between vertebrae in many places of my lower back. There is a procedure, that I have had done two times so far. I get the nerves burned ... neuroablations. The average span of relief varies, and for me it seems to be around 9 or 10 months. I waited a year between the two I had done, and it was too long. The 2nd worked good, once I got it done. That was just prior to our last trip. Those last 2 months, especially the last one, were not good. There was tremendous discomfort as the nerves healed, or started working again, or whatever it is that happens. I'm going to call and see about scheduling it sooner, but still will need to wait. I am already having to be a little ginger as I move around, and it is only September. I certainly plan to go earlier than last time (was April), so target is February/March on this trip. If you're ok waiting on an answer, maybe we can revisit this conversation in a few months. -- Idahodutch

Very sorry to hear about your medical issue. You did very good making your last trip into the mountains happen. If you return to the mountains February/March 2022, you might be there about the same time as myself. Weather will determine when I will be there. I want sunny, dry days with temperatures not higher than the 80's.

In the meantime, you might want to use GE to pinpoint locations that could satisfy the combined "clues" given by P.C. Bicknell, and those contained in the Holmes Manuscript. Those "clues" point to a location on, or near, the line connecting Four Peaks and Weaver's Needle. A "long ridge" will lead to a saddle where a round ruin of rocks is found. The mine will be below the saddle in a narrow ravine/canyon densely covered by scrub oak. The mine and hidden camp will be separated by only about 200 feet. I haven't found any such location that completely satisfies those "clues." You might have more luck. To keep things simple, I'm assuming the combined "clues" apply only to one location, just different ways to get there, but that is my personal opinion. I like to start simple, then only make things more complicated if necessary -- the same as doing automotive repairs -- check the simple stuff first.

 

[Idahodutch]

Very sorry to hear about your medical issue. You did very good making your last trip into the mountains happen. If you return to the mountains February/March 2022, you might be there about the same time as myself. Weather will determine when I will be there. I want sunny, dry days with temperatures not higher than the 80's.

In the meantime, you might want to use GE to pinpoint locations that could satisfy the combined "clues" given by P.C. Bicknell, and those contained in the Holmes Manuscript. Those "clues" point to a location on, or near, the line connecting Four Peaks and Weaver's Needle. A "long ridge" will lead to a saddle where a round ruin of rocks is found. The mine will be below the saddle in a narrow ravine/canyon densely covered by scrub oak. The mine and hidden camp will be separated by only about 200 feet. I haven't found any such location that completely satisfies those "clues." You might have more luck. To keep things simple, I'm assuming the combined "clues" apply only to one location, just different ways to get there, but that is my personal opinion. I like to start simple, then only make things more complicated if necessary -- the same as doing automotive repairs -- check the simple stuff first.

I agree with the approach. But see things differently.
When reading clues from Holmes manuscript, I am not reading in a restriction of having the location above the mine to be on the line between Four Peaks and Weavers Needle.
Only look north to see Four Peaks, and in the other direction you will see a high needle.
Weavers Needle is not mentioned by name, although many agree it is probably Weavers Needle.

I don?t see where it says it?s on an imaginary straight line between WN, & FP.
If you remove that restriction, you may have more luck

I have thought about, and at one time, considered that Bicknell?s path continued East, and the thickets choking LaBarge somehow maybe fit. This was many decades ago, but had thought about it.

The board house path going in, was as far as I know, not disclosed by Waltz, but that he would say/direct when it was time..... but I have not done much research about it either.

 

[Doc4261]

Idaho, now your thinking outside the box. Clues have changed. Deciphering what is true in the stories is key. U have seen my pic. Like I said the h/p was in one of your pics. Look back through your pics posted and look to where I'm at. U see the h/p.

 

[skyhawk1251]

"I agree with the approach, but see things differently. When reading clues from the Holmes manuscript, I am not reading in a restriction of having the location above the mine to be on the line between Four Peaks and Weaver's Needle. Only look north to see Four Peaks, and in the other direction you will see a high needle. Weaver's Needle is not mentioned by name, although many agree it is probably Weaver's Needle. I don't see where it says it's on an imaginary straight line between WN and FP. If you remove that restriction, you may have more luck.

I have thought about, and at one time, considered that Bicknell's path continued east, and the thickets choking LaBarge somehow maybe fit. This was many decades ago, but I had thought about it. The board house path going in was, as far as I know, not disclosed by Waltz, but that he would say/direct when it was time, but I have not done much research about it either." -- Idahodutch

I'm giving the compass line connecting Four Peaks and Weaver's Needle first priority, because one "clue" favored by many reads, "from above my mine four peaks can be seen as one peak." Connect the four summits of the Four Peak and extend that line south toward Weaver's Needle. The direction of the line is determined by aligning the four summits, not by aiming for Weaver's Needle. It just so happens that the line passes over, or very near to, Weaver's Needle. This "clue" sets my first priority for a GE search, but I'm not fixated only on locations on that line. By deviating away from that line, I might find some "possibles." I won't, however, lose my focus and begin searching in the eastern Superstitions. Actually, I don't expect to find any location that completely satisfies many of the "clues", because I think that the "clues" aren't worth diddly-doo, but it's a relaxing exercise in deductive reasoning.

 

[Ramiro valdez]

Markmar, your right, the high needle is not the same as the eye of the needle. The high needle is in fact weaver?s needle and the eye of the needle is a hole on a rock formation located 3 miles north of the rock horse. It lays three miles towards the north slightly west at the beginning of a natural water drain trail that is created by water coming down a gradual fall. It is located exactly where Waltz said it would be which he inscribed on the top portion of one of the map he produced. The map he gave to Julia was a cipher map known as a map within a map. Julia added a few words to it, but most of the symbols were already part of the map. The idea of the original map maker or stone map was to blind everyone so you would not see the 9 by 9 mile area square map that was staring in front of you. The borders of this map belong to the 9 by 9 square mile area around the rock horse. He used the natural water raining drain trail to simulate the military trail which is not true, but he new most people would not catch on. Within this map he position what he wanted you to see first which makes sense. Everyone would immediately be looking for the most iconic large symbolic symbols that could lead them to the mine over looking the map that defined the general location. The large map and the smaller map shared two important things, one was the natural water drain trail and the other one was the rock horse. At the bottom of the map he inscribed the exploded view of a section of the Salt River and the direction in which you would find this Rock Horse area which leads towards the Sierra Ancha mountain range. This section of the salt river is the very same place where Waltz build his farm. Waltz gave coded clue directions to his friends, so no one would understand except the person he was talking to. In his dying moments he tried to give out as many clues as he could without clearly saying where the mine was located. Everything was now up to the persons he was talking to. I can imagine that they were all shaking their heads in agreement to wards what he was saying, but when you are talking to simple people who do not have the qualifications or an idea of what the individual is talking about thinking that they do understand? I?m sorry to say that many will fail when they start looking becoming disoriented to what was said. This happens many times in many stories of lost treasures. I know that it is hard to let go of an area where many though it would be, but it is what it is .

 

[skyhawk1251]

An "informant", who wishes to remain anonymous (I don't know his last name anyway) and who is a fellow GPAA member, but who is not associated with this forum, sent me an e-mail with some GE images attached. In his e-mail, he more or less stated that my primary search priority as the line connecting Four Peaks with Weaver's Needle will not yield positive results even if I'm diligent in my search. According to him, I "won't win the prize using GE", but that I'm "on the right track." He says that he has been to a site that could be "the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow." He says that he has some ore samples. He would not share any photos taken with his camera, nor would he share GPS coordinates, as might be expected. He did grant permission to post his GE images to any forum, adding that "you can look, but you won't find without standing on the spot." Those images, attached here, are as they were received. He wrote, "what you seek is right in front of your eyes." So, here are his GE images. Maybe some forum members will want to take a look and scratch their heads along with me. My informant ended his e-mail with the words "over and out", so I'm definitely on my own. One image, the first, is very different from the other two. I know that he has made many trips to the Superstitions, and I had asked him if he thought the "Holmes clues" are valid. Maybe that image is related to the "Holmes clues."