Did the FBI find $600M in Civil War Gold in Pa. Forest ?

[GoDeep]

You are doing a good job, BUT I can not answer your questions. WHY because as I said many times there are things I can not talk about YET, But you can post what you found but I can not give you info. See if you can find the warrants but I can not give you the numbers on them. I can only say so much at this point even if your info shows something wrong , I can not correct it . But the research you did so far is GOOD. More than anyone else could do. Thank You

Respectfully, just one page ago you said i was wrong and twisting and distorting things and you'd no longer talk to me, now you are saying i'm doing a "good job"?! I get it, you are extending an olive branch of peace and i accept it in the interest of moving forward. Keep in mind, my information is coming directly from the sources (Your lawyers case filings, the courts rulings, your previous testimony and Enviroscan).

Second, you say there are things "you can not talk about now" and that shortly you will. In all due respect almost two years ago to the date, you started a thread "Times up, time to talk" and in that thread you promised to shortly tell all, fast forward two more years and you are again claiming "time is up" and you'll talk soon. I won't hold my breath, but i will give you the benefit of the doubt and hear you out when that time finally does come.

I suspect though, it will just be more speculation and conjecture as no new information from the files has been gained in the intervening 3 years and in reading your court filings, you have not deposed any officials at the scene nor issued any subpoenas to gather further evidence. Time will tell, in the meantime, i'll keep an open mind as we wait.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

As is Finders Keepers right under our rules, FK is not required to reveal or post what he doesnt wish to.

 

[GoDeep]

As is Finders Keepers right under our rules, FK is not required to reveal or post what he doesnt wish to.

I agree and respect that. Doesn't mean we can't ask the hard questions though and try to get more information!

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

As long as it is asking and not badgering.

badger

[ˈbajər]


VERB

badgering (present participle)

• ask (someone) repeatedly and annoyingly for something; pester.
  "journalists badgered him about the deals" · [more]
  
  synonyms:
  pester · harass · bother · plague · torment · hound · nag · chivvy · harry · keep on at · go on at · harp on at · keep after · importune · annoy · trouble · mither · hassle · bug · heavy
  
  

 

[FinderKeeper]

Ok, I am once again confused so I will try to explain.
GD posted the link on the decision, it's not his information so I don't understand when you claim in the statement that it is.
Explain the facts in the link please, you stated the FBI while it was IN FACT the DCNR.

OK lets try this again, We won our case with the FBI to get info in their files and they said it will take 4yrs, that was over 1yr ago. Then our lawyer went after DCNR to and we went after a lot of info. Over 8 times we had appeals from them and us . In the end we won a few weeks ago and this was about the warrant. We needed to know the numbers and judge that OK the warrant. So for now we got what we wanted. There were other smaller things we will get back to later in DCNR files but they are not about the FBI dig its another subject.

So we got what we wanted from the FBI and DCNR in court and now we are moving ahead trying to speed the 4yr wait time from ( now 3yrs) to months, and looking for the missing warrants . So we are doing the paper work for Federal Court.

Ya we been told many times by our lawyer and news networks to hold back from doing the news conference and they were right. A lot of new info keeps coming in over the years and we are glad we held off but we will try again to do it before March 13th. A lot is going on now and we plan another dig this summer and again it will involve the FBI again.

 

[Carl-NC]

A lot is going on now and we plan another dig this summer and again it will involve the FBI again.

Learned your lesson, didja? Is this new dig based on dowsing and LRLs?

It would be a generously merciful act to post nothing more on Dents Run until you have gold to show us. Everything else just adds to global warming.

 

[NewAge]

Ya we been told many times by our lawyer and news networks to hold back from doing the news conference and they were right. A lot of new info keeps coming in over the years and we are glad we held off but we will try again to do it before March 13th. A lot is going on now and we plan another dig this summer and again it will involve the FBI again.

If the news networks that are telling you not to have a conference are the same networks you plan to invite.It may be wise to not have a news conference.

It has already been moved from "any day now" to the middle of March and until you can freely talk and answer any question that is asked......a press conference is not going to go well for you.

 

[GoDeep]

Then our lawyer went after DCNR to and we went after a lot of info. Over 8 times we had appeals from them and us . In the end we won a few weeks ago and this was about the warrant.

Can you clarify what you mean by "we won a few weeks ago" ? Because, in an actual court of law a few weeks ago, you lost. Did your attorney not explain to you the ruling? Granted, i never became an attorney, but i did go to Law School after ending my 11 year career in LE (Univ. of S. Dakota School of Law) and i briefed many a case so maybe i can better explain it to you in a very succinct brief of the case:

Cluck V PA DEPARTMENT OF CONSERVATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES Filed Jan. 28, 2021 By the Honorable Kevin Brobson

Facts of the case: Petitioner, William J. Cluck, Representing Finders Keepers LLC, petitioned the court for an in camera review ("in camera" means a private review by only the judge) of the documents (specifically a writ, aka a warrant) that was denied in Cluck I by the PA Office of Open Records On Nov. 27th, 2019, to determine if it was improperly withheld from them and asking for its release to them.

Issues of Law: Petitioner argues that the Office of Open Records erred or abused its discretion when it relied on Chief Counsel's affidavit as sufficient evidence to demonstrate that the Writ was exempt from disclosure.

Decision: Based on our examination, we confirm that the federal court order that was filed under seal in Cluck I is, in fact, the Writ.10 In other words, the documents are one and the same. Accordingly, we confirm that the Writ is a federal court order that by judicial decree is under seal and, therefore, is not a public record. For the reasons set forth above, we affirm the Final Determination of PA Office of Open Records. and deny Petitioners request to unseal the record.


In non Legalese, to "affirm the PA ORR's determination" means they sided with the PA Office of Open Records and denied your request to unseal the part of the file (the FBI warrant) you sought. In other words, you lost your case.

 

[Tesorodeoro]

Does anyone know what this FBI agent with the yellow R on his jacket has in hand. Click on picture to enlarge.
View attachment 1900996View attachment 1900997View attachment 1900998View attachment 1900999

Well I see large hose clamps...indicates to me the device is intended to be clamped to something...presumable to lower into an excavation which would be unsafe to enter due to risk of collapsing or OSHA regulations. I see what looks like white 1” PVC pipe in his hand...
likely what it would be clamped to...I also see a very odd carrying strap with chrome chain and dual spring loaded latches (that may be your biggest clue). The black looking material looks 3D printed in my opinion. Just speculation...also the “r” might be “FBI” because the fabric is folded and distorted...what else would be emblazoned in large yellow letters on the front of a uniform coat?

Maybe a scanner of some sort...portable Lidar? Maybe (modern) standard tools of the trade when documenting a crime scene. Or perhaps something they were testing out. Kind of looks like a prototype.

 

[GoDeep]

Well I see large hose clamps...indicates to me the device is intended to be clamped to something...presumable to lower into an excavation which would be unsafe to enter due to risk of collapsing or OSHA regulations. I also see a very odd carrying strap with chrome chain and dual spring loaded latches (that may be your biggest clue). Just speculation...also the “r” might be “FBI” because the fabric is folded and distorted...what else would be emblazoned in large yellow letters on the front of a uniform coat?

Maybe a scanner of some sort...portable Lidar? Very likely standard tools of the trade when documenting a crime scene.

Thats a darn good eye you have! I'd agree. Perhaps a gas meter of some sort, city sewer workers use them to monitor the air when the go underground to prevent being overcome by fumes.

 

[Tesorodeoro]

Thats a darn good eye you have! I'd agree. Perhaps a gas meter of some sort, city sewer workers use them to monitor the air when the go underground to prevent being overcome by fumes.

Sorry for all the edits...just kept thinking...

 

[FinderKeeper]

Can you clarify what you mean by "we won a few weeks ago" ? Because, in an actual court of law a few weeks ago, you lost. Did your attorney not explain to you the ruling? Granted, i never became an attorney, but i did go to Law School after ending my 11 year career in LE (Univ. of S. Dakota School of Law) and i briefed many a case so maybe i can better explain it to you in a very succinct brief of the case:

Cluck V PA DEPARTMENT OF CONSERVATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES Filed Jan. 28, 2021 By the Honorable Kevin Brobson

Facts of the case: Petitioner, William J. Cluck, Representing Finders Keepers LLC, petitioned the court for an in camera review ("in camera" means a private review by only the judge) of the documents (specifically a writ, aka a warrant) that was denied in Cluck I by the PA Office of Open Records On Nov. 27th, 2019, to determine if it was improperly withheld from them and asking for its release to them.

Issues of Law: Petitioner argues that the Office of Open Records erred or abused its discretion when it relied on Chief Counsel's affidavit as sufficient evidence to demonstrate that the Writ was exempt from disclosure.

Decision: Based on our examination, we confirm that the federal court order that was filed under seal in Cluck I is, in fact, the Writ.10 In other words, the documents are one and the same. Accordingly, we confirm that the Writ is a federal court order that by judicial decree is under seal and, therefore, is not a public record. For the reasons set forth above, we affirm the Final Determination of PA Office of Open Records. and deny Petitioners request to unseal the record.


In non Legalese, to "affirm the PA ORR's determination" means they sided with the PA Office of Open Records and denied your request to unseal the part of the file (the FBI warrant) you sought. In other words, you lost your case.

There was 3 Federal Judges and they could not allow us to see what is in the warrant because it was sealed. DCNR kept saying its a warrant for 1yr then said its a writ . Things just kept changing and DCNR was stalling. All we wanted was the warrant number so we could have the judge unseal the file. The public has no right to see whats in some sealed files but we are not the public We ARE PART OF THE INVESTIGATION and we have a right to know the out come. Thats why I can not talk about what we got from DCNR files or what we get from the FBI files . Only in Federal court can we use this info . Some things may never be made public. Hay this is our first time going into Federal Court and I am sure it will not be our last time . Every Treasure site we have will involve the FBI , DCNR or someone and end up in Federal Court. This is the business we are in and if any one that located a big treasure site , this is what they will go through. The state or Feds can not give you a contract to sign because they don't know what is going to be found and who owns it. A find like this must go to Federal Court and they will let us know if we get anything. WE had a agreement with the FBI and they screwed us so we will do what we can . On our next dig we will have a Film Crew, Lawyers, and news crew on site before we dig and then call the FBI . This is what I recommend other hunters to do if its a BIG TREASURE found.

The warrant was found today so now we wait for our lawyer to file the paper work to over ride the sealed order so we can view it.

 

[GoDeep]

The public has no right to see whats in some sealed files but we are not the public We ARE PART OF THE INVESTIGATION and we have a right to know

And that is what your attorney just argued on your behalf in the appeal, and that panel of 3 judges, just ruled against you, that you do not have a right to see it. Though you may consider yourself "part of the investigation", from a legal standpoint, the panel of judges just ruled you have no legal standing to see the warrant, even if it was "found" today.

When you say your "lawyer has to file the paper work" now to override the sealed order, what he means is you have to appeal this most recent case against you to the Pennsylvania Supreme Court. At this point though, they do not automatically hear your appeal, it is what is called a "discretionary court" and it will need to be approved to be heard, and only cases that have precedent setting issues are taken, so it is extremely unlikely your case will be heard. So very likely, this is the end of the road after being ruled against in both the lower court and now, being ruled against in the Appeal court.

Thats why I can not talk about what we got from DCNR files or what we get from the FBI files.

If you will remember, i put in the same Right To Know request you did to the PA DCNR and received everything you received, there is not pertinent information in that file, other then the FBI warrant, which neither of us had access to. As far as the FBI, they sealed their file, it is not accessible by you and you have, to this point, brought no suit against them to open the file and it is unlikely you could get standing to bring it before a federal court. Your attorney may be willing to try, but don't count on him having success.

 

[FinderKeeper]

And that is what your attorney just argued on your behalf in the appeal, and that panel of 3 judges, just ruled against you, that you do not have a right to see it. Though you may consider yourself "part of the investigation", from a legal standpoint, the panel of judges just ruled you have no legal standing to see the warrant.

It doesn't matter if the warrant was "found" today and you have the warrant number, the appeals court just ruled against you already, therefore you can not see it. When you say your "lawyer has to file the paper work" now to override the sealed order, what he means is you have to appeal yet again this most recent court decision to the next higher court. At this point though, they do not automatically hear your appeal like they did your last appeal, it will need to be approved, and only cases that have precedent setting issues are heard. So very likely, this is the end of the road after being ruled against in both the lower court and now, being ruled against in the appeal court. Hay my lawyer had done a great job going against a team of DCNR lawyers and now we plan to add more to our team when headed to Federal Court. I know you think you know whats going to happen but lets hold off until we see what happens.





If you will remember, i put the same RTK request you did to the PA DCNR and received everything you received, there is not pertinent information in that file. . We got info that you can not get and I can not talk about As far as the FBI, they sealed their file, it is not accessible by you and you have, to this point, brought no suit against them to open the file and it is unlikely you could get standing to bring it before a federal court. Your attorney may be willing to try, but don't count on him having success. I have posted the response from the FBI asking us to ask for a smaller amount from their files and we could get it faster than 4yrs. It made world news . Why do you make up things I all ready answered to.---------- Original Message ----------

From: "FBI.FOIPA.NEGOTIATION" <FBI.FOIPA.NEGOTIATION@FBI.GOV>
To: 'Bill Cluck' <billcluck@billcluck.com>
Date: September 13, 2019 at 12:25 PM
Subject: RE: FW: FOIPA # xxxxxxxxxxx

Good Afternoon Mr. Cluck,

Thank you for your email response concerning the possible scope reduction of this request. At this time I am unable to view the video media associated with this case. I can advise if the video media contains anything concerning 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] party then it will not be available for release. There is potential responsive material located in this case within a main file and sub files. The main file is the investigative part and the sub files are supportive documents for the main file.

We recommend the following options--

Option 1: To reduce the scope of this request by limiting to the main file which contains approximately 1,058 potential responsive pages. This request would remain in the large track with approximately 47 months to complete.

Option 2: To reduce the scope of this request by limiting to approximately the first 950 potential responsive pages. This request would move to the medium track with approximately 21 months to complete.

Please let us know if you are interested one of the recommended options listed above.

We appreciate your patience and hope to hear from you soon.


Sincerely,



Negotiation Team
FBI Information Management Division
Fbi.foipa.negotiation@fbi.gov
540-868-4894




​

You never know until you try and thats what we are doing. Last year we tried to get info from the Ridgeway State Police files and they said there are things in the files the public should not see, ( the things they do to investigate ), But when we get into Federal Court we hope the Federal Judges will look at their files to help our case.

 

[GoDeep]

You never know until you try and thats what we are doing. Last year we tried to get info from the Ridgeway State Police files and they said there are things in the files the public should not see, ( the things they do to investigate ), But when we get into Federal Court we hope the Federal Judges will look at their files to help our case.

If you have the money to try, definitely appeal it the PA State Supreme Court, but as i have no doubt your attorney told you, it's a long shot to get heard by them, and even if one clears that hurdle, they still need to hear the case and rule in your favor and with 2 lower courts now ruling against you, it's a long shot. I'm not trying to be Davey Downer, just the facts sir....

 

[GoDeep]

We got info that you can not get and I can not talk about.

You have other info that i don't have, true, but as far as the FBI and PA DCNR files are concerned, you do not have access to any more information contained in those files then I or any other citizen has. I know you feel you are "part of the investigation" as you led the FBI to where you thought something maybe buried, but that only makes you the informer, not an legal investigative LE body. The court just ruled it, they gave you no special standing or access.

As far as your Right to Know Request to the FBI, we all have the same standing to put in a request, just as you have and you need to understand, their response from nearly 2 years ago, is not indicative of what they will actually turn over. In the end, you will likely get a response saying that they viewed the narrowed scope of documents you requested and they are confidential and sealed and you'll get a lot of blacked out documents with little to no useful information on them. If not, then great, they will be interesting to read and i'll put in my own request too for them at that time if they unseal it.

Also, Please do not falsely accuse me again of "making things up", it is the 2nd time you have done so and i've let it slide so far. It is against ECF rules to call other members liars. Everything i have stated is in good faith and based upon the voluminous facts contained in the record or are good faith predictions of possible outcomes based on my experience. If you feel something i said is incorrect, bring it to my attention or PM me, but being incorrect has a completely different meaning and intent then does "making things up".

 

[NewAge]

And that is what your attorney just argued on your behalf in the appeal, and that panel of 3 judges, just ruled against you, that you do not have a right to see it. Though you may consider yourself "part of the investigation", from a legal standpoint, the panel of judges just ruled you have no legal standing to see the warrant, even if it was "found" today.

When you say your "lawyer has to file the paper work" now to override the sealed order, what he means is you have to appeal this most recent case against you to the Pennsylvania Supreme Court. At this point though, they do not automatically hear your appeal, it is what is called a "discretionary court" and it will need to be approved to be heard, and only cases that have precedent setting issues are taken, so it is extremely unlikely your case will be heard. So very likely, this is the end of the road after being ruled against in both the lower court and now, being ruled against in the Appeal court.



If you will remember, i put in the same Right To Know request you did to the PA DCNR and received everything you received, there is not pertinent information in that file, other then the FBI warrant, which neither of us had access to. As far as the FBI, they sealed their file, it is not accessible by you and you have, to this point, brought no suit against them to open the file and it is unlikely you could get standing to bring it before a federal court. Your attorney may be willing to try, but don't count on him having success.

Great post

I tried to explain to FK early in this thread that everyone has the same rights to info that he does.
This would be a much different story if he had bonded the site and was considered the operator.

But you did a much better job laying it out.

I have been skeptical of his legal advice for years and nothing mentioned in the last couple pages of this thread has changed my mind.

 

[Tpmetal]

And that is what your attorney just argued on your behalf in the appeal, and that panel of 3 judges, just ruled against you, that you do not have a right to see it. Though you may consider yourself "part of the investigation", from a legal standpoint, the panel of judges just ruled you have no legal standing to see the warrant.

It doesn't matter if the warrant was "found" today and you have the warrant number, the appeals court just ruled against you already, therefore you can not see it. When you say your "lawyer has to file the paper work" now to override the sealed order, what he means is you have to appeal yet again this most recent court decision to the next higher court. At this point though, they do not automatically hear your appeal like they did your last appeal, it will need to be approved, and only cases that have precedent setting issues are heard. So very likely, this is the end of the road after being ruled against in both the lower court and now, being ruled against in the appeal court. Hay my lawyer had done a great job going against a team of DCNR lawyers and now we plan to add more to our team when headed to Federal Court. I know you think you know whats going to happen but lets hold off until we see what happens.





If you will remember, i put the same RTK request you did to the PA DCNR and received everything you received, there is not pertinent information in that file. . We got info that you can not get and I can not talk about As far as the FBI, they sealed their file, it is not accessible by you and you have, to this point, brought no suit against them to open the file and it is unlikely you could get standing to bring it before a federal court. Your attorney may be willing to try, but don't count on him having success. I have posted the response from the FBI asking us to ask for a smaller amount from their files and we could get it faster than 4yrs. It made world news . Why do you make up things I all ready answered to.---------- Original Message ----------

From: "FBI.FOIPA.NEGOTIATION" <FBI.FOIPA.NEGOTIATION@FBI.GOV>
To: 'Bill Cluck' <billcluck@billcluck.com>
Date: September 13, 2019 at 12:25 PM
Subject: RE: FW: FOIPA # xxxxxxxxxxx

Good Afternoon Mr. Cluck,

Thank you for your email response concerning the possible scope reduction of this request. At this time I am unable to view the video media associated with this case. I can advise if the video media contains anything concerning 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] party then it will not be available for release. There is potential responsive material located in this case within a main file and sub files. The main file is the investigative part and the sub files are supportive documents for the main file.

We recommend the following options--

Option 1: To reduce the scope of this request by limiting to the main file which contains approximately 1,058 potential responsive pages. This request would remain in the large track with approximately 47 months to complete.

Option 2: To reduce the scope of this request by limiting to approximately the first 950 potential responsive pages. This request would move to the medium track with approximately 21 months to complete.

Please let us know if you are interested one of the recommended options listed above.

We appreciate your patience and hope to hear from you soon.


Sincerely,



Negotiation Team
FBI Information Management Division
Fbi.foipa.negotiation@fbi.gov
540-868-4894




​

You never know until you try and thats what we are doing. Last year we tried to get info from the Ridgeway State Police files and they said there are things in the files the public should not see, ( the things they do to investigate ), But when we get into Federal Court we hope the Federal Judges will look at their files to help our case.

Ridgeway.... why the heck you in ridgeway? looking for that native american cave full of goodies i keep hearing about in that area?

 

[FinderKeeper]

Ridgeway.... why the heck you in ridgeway? looking for that native american cave full of goodies i keep hearing about in that area?

The Ridgeway State Police were the ones I called when I found out someone dug up our site at Dents Run and when equipment went missing. AS I said there is a lot more to this story. We did not just lead the FBI to this site we worked with them for 2 months and gave them what they needed to do the criminal investigation .

If nothing was found , there should be no criminal investigation . If something was found at the site, then there is a investigation. The FBI says the investigation is still on going, we should know because we ask for the investigation. Thats why we stayed quiet.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

If your going to quote a member, please be sure you end quote the member quoted, other wise you change who quoted what and what they said.

Do not place your comments in the middle of someone else's quote even in color.

Per our rules:

"You may not.... Edit any member's words in a quote in any way other than to shorten the quote to isolate specific statements to reply to."

As example below, that is not Tpmetal's comments it is Finderkeeper's comments

The Ridgeway State Police were the ones I called when I found out someone dug up our site at Dents Run and when equipment went missing. AS I said there is a lot more to this story. We did not just lead the FBI to this site we worked with them for 2 months and gave them what they needed to do the criminal investigation .


If nothing was found , there should be no criminal investigation . If something was found at the site, then there is a investigation. The FBI says the investigation is still on going, we should know because we ask for the investigation. Thats why we stayed quiet.