DIY Fluid bed/Traditional Sluice combo?

[oidium45]

Hello everyone,
After quite a bit of research and some thinking.. I have decided to try to build what is more or less similar to a bazooka gold trap but with a few changes. I know that it has been done many times and I have probably read the forum post for each (if there were any). But my question is this. Are there any potential advantages/disadvantages to adapting some of the traditional sluice designs into the mix? For example, miners moss, expanded metal, carpet or riffles on either the inlet or outlet of the box? I will be more than likely making the box from ABS sheeting and Aluminum unless I stumble across a better "cost efficient" option.

I should note that I will probably be drawing the thing up in solid works and hopefully running some flow simulators to get a better understanding of what is going on in the box, appropriate angles during operation and ideal water flow flow levels. This should be a fun project

 

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[goldog]

There are some threads.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[oidium45]

There are some threads.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Some threads involving adding traditional sluice setups?

 

[Sockeye1730]

Idk if it would be an advantage. The awesome part about fluid bed / bazookas is not having to classifly. Adding riffles and moss would defeat that, plus you have to run FBs pretty steep and fast...might just blow out the rest of the sluice to keep the bed exchanging and the grizzly clear.

My advice, fwiw, copy off the bazooka design but make the trap an inch or 2 longer.

Loving my zabooka! I did some surgery on my bigger FB recently, added 10" length and 6" wider scoop. Also tried out a "clay claw". The claw is great so far for holding back those rocks right at bedrock to get them really washed well.

Good luck on your build!

 

[SRP_KBell]

oidium45 -

Fluidized and standard sluice designs are incompatible so combining them isn't an effective option - These systems would in effect cancel each other out making the "combined" system ineffective.

The key feature of the fluidized sluice is the ability to run large quantities of classified or unclassified material. Most standard sluice designs with normal riffle or matting configurations don't have near the throughput of fluidized systems. With that said, Goldwasher has very good success running large volumes of both unclassified and classified in a standard sluice configuration. I would send him a PM to get the details or search TNet. He might also comment on this thread.

One benefit of using a standard sluice configuration is it can be matted to run in low water conditions when there isn't enough water for the fluidized sluice.

In my opinion you have two options:
Option 1: Fluidized sluice system for normal water conditions and a sluice like a Angus MacKirk or LeTrap for low water conditions.
Option 2: Buy a standard sluice configuration and have a setup for each water condition. Test different riffles, expanded metal, matting, etc. to find what works best in the areas you mine.

 

[oidium45]

Idk if it would be an advantage. The awesome part about fluid bed / bazookas is not having to classifly. Adding riffles and moss would defeat that, plus you have to run FBs pretty steep and fast...might just blow out the rest of the sluice to keep the bed exchanging and the grizzly clear.

My advice, fwiw, copy off the bazooka design but make the trap an inch or 2 longer.

Loving my zabooka! I did some surgery on my bigger FB recently, added 10" length and 6" wider scoop. Also tried out a "clay claw". The claw is great so far for holding back those rocks right at bedrock to get them really washed well.

Good luck on your build!View attachment 1502488View attachment 1502494View attachment 1502497View attachment 1502499

Nice! I like that you made the claws retractable.

 

[Goldwasher]

The Idea for a fluid bed came from old style hydraulic riffles. Used to be called a New Zealand Riffle. It was a perpendicular drop in a sluice run with a pressurized tube with holes in it. making a small fluidized drop zone. They didn't become contemporary because they weren't that much of an improvement on recovery.

You can put a fluid bed at the beggining or end of a sluice ...or you can put riffles on the deck of a fluid bed sluice.

You will find out that gold tends to get caught in the first recovery section it can.

As long as the fluid bed chamber is active nothing you do before or after affects whats happening in the chamber.

They do not negate each other based on their physics.

Just the amount of gold you can get in it..based on what was already captured.

After much field use and having to run different boxes under many varying flow conditions. The main function of fluid bed sluices that I even care about is the grizzly and the way it separates oversize while running. I would rather the material then go over low profile riffles (expanded metal) and moss...or gold hog.

You can run way more material with less classification through a regular sluice with more flow than you will be lead to believe reading average internet tips.Or sales gimmicks.

I never had a use for a bazooka under a 36" prospector. Way too slow going. I run custom though relatively normal stream sluices on the claim. I got sick of having to set up a bazooka in different spots based on daily flow conditions. Plus the tailings build up right at the sluice gets to be problematic.

Still waiting to get my hands on a grizzly gold trap. I want to see how much gold stays in the sample riffles without messing with them. It actually looks like the mid size box may be as productive as 36 bazooka. or my standard set up.

 

[oidium45]

The Idea for a fluid bed came from old style hydraulic riffles. Used to be called a New Zealand Riffle. It was a perpendicular drop in a sluice run with a pressurized tube with holes in it. making a small fluidized drop zone. They didn't become contemporary because they weren't that much of an improvement on recovery.

You can put a fluid bed at the beggining or end of a sluice ...or you can put riffles on the deck of a fluid bed sluice.

You will find out that gold tends to get caught in the first recovery section it can.

As long as the fluid bed chamber is active nothing you do before or after affects whats happening in the chamber.

They do not negate each other based on their physics.

Just the amount of gold you can get in it..based on what was already captured.

After much field use and having to run different boxes under many varying flow conditions. The main function of fluid bed sluices that I even care about is the grizzly and the way it separates oversize while running. I would rather the material then go over low profile riffles (expanded metal) and moss...or gold hog.

You can run way more material with less classification through a regular sluice with more flow than you will be lead to believe reading average internet tips.Or sales gimmicks.

I never had a use for a bazooka under a 36" prospector. Way too slow going. I run custom though relatively normal stream sluices on the claim. I got sick of having to set up a bazooka in different spots based on daily flow conditions. Plus the tailings build up right at the sluice gets to be problematic.

Still waiting to get my hands on a grizzly gold trap. I want to see how much gold stays in the sample riffles without messing with them. It actually looks like the mid size box may be as productive as 36 bazooka. or my standard set up.

Thank you for chiming in Goldwasher.
My biggest attraction to a fluid bed was the compact size. It seemed like a better option for backpacking.

 

[SRP_KBell]

oidium45 -

Just to clarify my answer - the benefit of high speed processing of classified or unclassified material in fluidized systems would be reduced by adding miners moss or carpet and expanded metal or even riffles to the material deck. In my opinion it is counter productive - it cancels out the speed benefit, plus complicates the simple cleanup process, which is why I said they are incompatible.

I should have used the term less effective instead of ineffective.

I answered this thread thinking it was a continuation of your backpack sluice post - reducing the size parameter to fit in a backpack already reduces your throughput. Not sure if GW caught the other thread.

 

[Golden_Crab]

Nice! I like that you made the claws retractable.

Flip the claw the other way and add springs so big rocks don't blow through it right away. That way it's just shovel and go.

 

[oidium45]

oidium45 -

Just to clarify my answer - the benefit of high speed processing of classified or unclassified material in fluidized systems would be reduced by adding miners moss or carpet and expanded metal or even riffles to the material deck. In my opinion it is counter productive - it cancels out the speed benefit, plus complicates the simple cleanup process, which is why I said they are incompatible.

I should have used the term less effective instead of ineffective.

I answered this thread thinking it was a continuation of your backpack sluice post - reducing the size parameter to fit in a backpack already reduces your throughput. Not sure if GW caught the other thread.

In a way you are correct. It was the recommendation of a bazooka for a backpacking sluice (vs the price) that got me thinking about building one. I am still a bit undecided between building a fluid bed vs a "traditional" sluice at this point since I have very limited experience with either. I suppose I will need to do quite a bit more reading into each before I make a decision. Thanks for the feedback. Every little bit helps.

 

[Goldwasher]

Whatever sluice you are running, Set it flat with enough flow to move golf ball size rocks. You will increase your through put and recovery.
They really clean themselves off as they move through the sluice.

The main reason to pre classify is lack of flow. To get a certain size material through the sluice based on available flow.

as soon as I have good flow I do not pre classify.

sluice boxes are classifiers..gravel washers concentrators and tailings movers all in one.

I try not to add steps that keep me from sourcing or feeding material.

The only unique attribute of a Bazooka, GGT or AMP cal sluice 2b is the fact that there is a grizzly or under current separating material by size.
Though the size scalped from the slurry is so very large compered to the dense material containing gold that the rest of the separation and concentration is still dependand on laminar flow and eddies for exchange.

In the fluid bed area of a sluice the water coming out of the tubes is not at high enough flow by pressure or volume to really create exchange. It just keeps the material from solidifying(most of the time)

The Bazooka, amp ,and GGT are still relying on flow keep the lighter material exchanging and moving out of the sluice. The gold gets caught simply because its gold and it goes down. There is no new discovery in the way any of those sluices work.

In a traditional sluice, The golds first chance is the first obstruction or drop. Once it makes it down into moss or a recession in carpet, v mat , drop riffle, or portion of Gold Hog. It is going to stay. Unless you really mess with it. Especially when your sluice is running flat.

Put a Hungarian Riffle backwards as your first riffle, it's going to capture a lot of gold.

Have to classify because of low flow? Want to carry sluice in your back pack that is light and works great?

Honestly I recommend the TEE DEE easy sluice. It has multiple capture zones. Its also pretty inexpensive.

My next choice would be one of the smaller Angus sluices any one of them that is around 10 " wide. They are the most versatile as far as flow goes. If you have water you can run them flat with no classification. Or with if you have low flow.

After that maybe a Bazooka 36" sniper for size and production.

Equal would be the new GGT nugget. The smallest one looks workable.

I personally wouldn't waste my time with any thing smaller. If I don't have the water to actually run a sluice of a decent size, than I am panning.

In my experience a smaller fluid bed sluice does not increase production or through put. A fluid bed in and of itself does not either.

If your running a self classifying sluice and running at the lowest flow classifying to be able to move material, you are in no way running faster than you would with a narrower plastic drop riffle. Or an A52 with expanded metal instead of riffles.

I save hiking in a sluice for second trips. I go in first with a pan only...If I wish I had a sluice I bring one back the next time.

 

[oidium45]

Goldwasher,
I gotta tell you, I really appreciate all of the info! Sadly, you explained why I lost my gold last weekend. I had the sluice that I borrowed at the creek at maybe a 15 degree slope. I could see gold on the first mat with every bucket but it washed down quickly while adding material and was never to be found again. (live and learn)



I really like the size and price of that Tee Dee Ez Sluice. And the fact that it actually has moss and rubber in it vs just all plastic. I my just have to grab that as my starter.

 

[SRP_KBell]

oidium45 -

I do want to clarify one thing that GW mentioned - "...In the fluid bed area of a sluice the water coming out of the tubes is not at high enough flow by pressure or volume to really create exchange. It just keeps the material from solidifying(most of the time)

The Bazooka, amp ,and GGT are still relying on flow keep the lighter material exchanging and moving out of the sluice. The gold gets caught simply because its gold and it goes down. There is no new discovery in the way any of those sluices work."

He is right that all three systems use flow to keep the lighter material exchanging and moving out of the sluice. The difference between AMP sluice (actually now Snake River Products) and the other two is the additional injection of water from each side of the material box that slows down and processes the incoming material, which aids in separation. There is also a partition in the trap that creates a material "bounce" that facilitates the gold drop out into the tray. This is why the AMP sluice has significant capture of gold down to 200 mesh.

 

[Prospector70]

Just make the fluid bed, don't hold anything up on the slick plate, just get the material in and out with no classifying.
As a wise man once said:
think less and shovel more <3

 

[oidium45]

Prospector 70,
I ended up grabbing a tee dee (ez) sluice for now. I will probably still wind up making the fluid bed though. I just needed something in the short term until that day comes.

I will post updates on this thread as I start the build. Maybe you guys push me in the right direction as the build proceeds...

Thank you everyone who chimed in with advice! Much appreciated!

 

[RTR]

I Love DIY stuff . Here is a little sluice system I came up with...And it works

 

[Johnnybravo300]

I've had a few bazookas and still have the 24 inch sniper. I like the designs and simplicity of the clean out but I can't say that it gets more gold than my angus. A few issues and things I've noticed with mine...
The tubes clog with sediments and leaves. It's happened to me numerous times and I have to keep an eye out. Not a big deal if you watch it but if someone is upstream or the water is at all murky it's an issue. As soon as you see it backing up do a clean out and clean the tubes or you'll lose your gold.
Shoveling directly in is cool on YouTube, but no one is scooping up nuggets from the surface right next to the sluice. In a four foot hole 6 feet from the sluice it isn't reality.
Whether you classify or not you'll get the same gold. By not classifying you are running much more waste through and if you have any clays at all it won't help you. Theres no point in running 15 extra buckets of waste just to not classify and it doesn't save time with low grade layers. Most creek material needs mashed up if it's good gold bearing stuff anyway and you don't want all that just washing out. Scooping unclassified material into the sluice is frustrating and time consuming and hardly worth it when most of it has no gold.
These sluices take more attention and can be more to set up at times than a riffle sluice. Regardless of the claims made, there's no short cuts and it's all hand work to get the gold out.

 

[Johnnybravo300]

I was thinking of a 1 inch classifier for a happy medium....might be worth a try and a little faster.

 

[SRP_KBell]

JB300 -

Spent the last couple weeks testing our prototype Titan sluice - We were shoveling primarily semi packed stream material down to a super hard clay layer that acts like bedrock. Material was primarily sub two inch with 4 or 5 larger rocks per shovelful. We found that a bit slower stream flow (which means picking golf ball size and larger rocks off the material deck) increased 100 minus to 150 mesh gold recovery. Of course smaller flat rocks also had to be removed.

I will agree with you, KinC, Goldwasher, etal that shoveling close to the sluice is faster than classifying/running material as long as you are within close proximity to the sluice (as shown in our video). I believe you are also correct (And I have said the same thing in other posts) that you lose the advantage of direct shoveling once you're taking three or four steps back and forth from digging to sluicing.

We also tested "knocking off the big chunks" using a 1 inch classifier - Most of the material literally dropped straight through into the bucket with a couple quick shakes. Processing through the sluice was much quicker and gold recovery increased to 200 mesh. I didn't see a huge reduction in fine gold recovery using 1 inch classification vs. 1/2 inch although I know based on previous testing that I am losing quite a bit of fine gold. If I know there is only fine gold in the location I am digging then I use 1/2" classification prior to running material through the sluice.

Not sure I can agree with you on the unclassified and classified getting the same gold based on my testing using measured amounts of gold. As stated above I see losses even between different size classifiers.