Does treasure sink in the ground?

[Frankn]

The short answer is NO. There are exceptions like quicksand, but I doubt you are T.H. in quicksand! If a coin is dropped on the ground, a certain amount of dirt is blown on it by the wind. A certain amount is shoved on it by passing people or animals but the main coverage is done by dying vegetation. The coin does not sink,it is covered. If gold, which is heavy, sunk in the ground there would be no placer gold. It would all be at the center of the earth by now. I have been on the beach and seen old coins sitting two inches above the beach on small "sand towers". The wind and tide had removed several inches of sand from the beach. When I dig here in Md. I can tell how long an object has been in the ground by the depth. It makes no difference how much it weighs. I found several objects on a past hunt that were between 3" and 4". I knew they had been in the ground since the mid 40"s in fact two pennies were dated early 40's. I found an ax head,very rusty, at 10+". I knew it had been in the ground for over 200 years. Areas with little vegetation get most coverage from wind and water. All right lay it on me, but back it up!!

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[steve from ohio]

Steve: I think someone stole your coin on the mud! What was being discussed here was plane old soil, not mud, not sand,not water. Now I can tell you that it does not take 10 or 20 years to compost top soil! It is more like a month. I live on a farm that I use to work. Gravity does not pull things into the ground! The pressure on the earth is only about 7.5# sq.". Not hardly enough to put things in the ground. As for your clad coins from 2000 4 or 5" in clay. There must have been a flood there.

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I could be wrong on this. But it sure is kind of interesting to think about.

I'm talking regular grass fields, not farm fields with compost and cow manure. The depths at which modern coins are found depends on the soil conditions and the amount of grass that has been composted into the soil plus all the other things like dog poop and if the coin was stepped on......hopefully not while under dog poop !

In my opinion, and I could be wrong, Gravity will pull things into the ground if there is not a good surface area to resist the sinking from the surface. Sort of like a boat. The surface tension of dirt changes when it gets wet.....mud. I see stuff sink in mud all the time. A coin lost in the grass will move when the grass is growing. Grass will often push a coin on edge to the ground where the surface area of the coin cannot support its weight in the wet ground.....mud. So the coin sinks into the wet ground (mud) and down it goes.

Again, I could be wrong on this. I once thought I was wrong, but I was wrong about that.

 

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[bigwater]

The term was mentioned once or twice during this thread, and it's the only term that really matters in this concept. Specific gravity. Heavier substances will sink in lighter substances due to environmental issues.

As an experiment, take a silver dime and put it on the top of a coffee cup full of sand and set it on top your refrigerator for a few days. That dime will find it's way to the bottom of the cup because it's got a heavier specific gravity than the sand does. It'll sit there on top for a long time if you just put it on the counter top, but if you put it on the refrigerator, the vibrations from the compressor will send it to the bottom in short order. Black dirt will take longer, clay even longer... but if you leave that dime in that coffee cup on the refrigerator long enough it will sink to the bottom no matter what it's sitting on , as long as the stuff it's sitting on has a lower specific gravity than the dime does. The earth moves. Earthquakes are always present, even if they aren't felt. Heavy stuff is dragged down underneath the lighter stuff. It's not always a matter of getting covered over by debris, although that contributes to it.

Gold, being one of the heaviest minerals, will even sink into rock over time with the right environmental conditions. That's why you find gold inside quartz. Quartz has a light specific gravity... gold is heavy and it just goes right through it. In fact, when you find old rotten quartz and look at it, you won't see any gold on top. Flip it over. All the gold will be in the bottom. It's pure physics. Heavy sinks into light, and while some people may have a strange way, or even unintelligble attempt at trying to prove that point, there's no doubt that it's a fact.

 

[DKinPA]

Interesting topic!

I was wondering how long it was going to take before the word "density" showed up in this thread....LOL!!
If you guys have not yet read Tom Dankowski you're missing a tremendous amount of information about our hobby (or obsession as I like to call it) in general, but his information and research regarding masking and "sink" are very interesting.

Here's the link to his article talking about "sink" on a sand beach, enjoy!!

http://dankowskidetectors.com/loveisdeep.htm

Dave

 

[steve from ohio]

I better watch. I've been told my head is really dense.

There does seem to be an advantage to my problem. I can see the stuff under the ground

 

[orion024]

"Gravitational energy is the energy held by an object because of its high position compared to a lower position. I.e. Apencil being held above a table has a higher gravitational potential than a pencil sitting on the table. Gravitional potential energy is Mechanical energy minus Kinetic Energy. It has a scalar quantity measured in Joules (J). If we didn't have gravitational pull acting on Earth, everything would float away, therefore objects sink over time. Sharp or Heavy object sink more easily than flat & light objects, and depending on surface type, it may and may not sink! I.E. - A Penny on Pavement or Concrete will not sink, but a Penny on dirt or stones will sink! Everything object has potential to sink, like coins, accounts, and people!

Here is a non-scientific yet very understandable explanation of planetary gravity.

Space is a fabric. Think of space like this and everything will start to make sense.

Imagine space is a rubber sheet stretched tight across a big trampoline. Ok? Now! All objects in space have mass. Some weigh a lot more than others.

If you put a 16 pound bowling ball in the middle of the rubber sheet, what happens? It sinks. It bends the rubber sheet. Imagine that bowling ball is our Sun.

Now put a marble, let's say Earth, on the rubber sheet. What happens? It automatically starts rolling to the heavy bowling ball which is bending the entire rubber sheet, or space. That is why Earth, in real life, revolves around the Sun because the Sun has bent space so much and our little Earth is "in the bend".

That is planetary gravity. Objects bending space.

Now, a black hole is an exploded star that is many, many, MANY times more massive than our Sun, but much, much smaller in size.

So, imagine placing a marble on the rubber sheet that ways as much as the Empire State Building....all that weight contained in that little marble. What happens? The rubber sheet sinks way, way, WAY down, and ANYTHING on that rubber sheet (or space) immediately starts falling towards it. Of course the Empire State Building (black hole) weighs a lot more than the bowling ball (our Sun) so as heavy as the Sun is, it too starts falling towards the Empire State Building.

All the 100 billion stars in the Milky Way galaxy are all falling towards a supermassive black hole right in the middle of our galaxy. Get too close and oops!!! The star gets ripped apart and actually falls into the hole.

If you think of gravity as that rubber sheet, and objects of different mass bend the sheet depending on how much they weigh, then gravity becomes much easier to understand and realize that a black hole is the Empire State Building whereas our Sun is a measly old bowling ball.

Remember, space is a fabric and the heavier an object weighs, the more it sinks into space. It actually bends space depending on how much mass it has. Any smaller objects that are close enough are effected by the bent space. And that is gravity."

 

[DavyJonesLocker]

Ya all crack me up, ya asked da question? And da di didn't like th the answer ya got th then why b bother to h have asked?

 

[bazinga]

Ya all crack me up, ya asked da question? And da di didn't like th the answer ya got th then why b bother to h have asked?

I'm not drunk!!?!?!?


I'm WAAAAAAAAAAAASTED!

 

[Stanl (MI)]

Who cares whether the treasure: sinks, floats, gets covered up with mud, snow, or rain. Puhed up, down, and around by ground frost.
As long as I can find it with my machine, I don't care how it came to be in that particular place.

 

[Frankn]

Steven, if the grass lifts the coin then it is no longer on the ground so it can't sink. If you want to prove your theory, place a coin on edge and stay there until it sinks, then post the results. BigWater, Specific Gravity is used in a test involving WATER. It is actually the ratio of the mass of a given volume of WATER to that of the same volume of the tested substance. The test doesn't work solid to solid. Your refrigerator test is just using vibration like the units that clean shell caseings. Gravity is not involved. Your one statement is incorrect. If you put an iron disk in the bottom of your cup and your silver dime on top of it. The dime will Never sink to the bottom of the cup!! I can agree with your theory that earth vibrates. My house is on a concrete slab and I can feel every train that passes and the tracks that are at least 3 mi. away. As for heavier solids sinking into other solids, Like gold into quartz, not true. The gold in quartz got there when they were in a liquid form deep in the earth.

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[Frankn]

DKinPa: I read the post link. Remember the guy is a salesman and a writer! He sells Fisher detectors,large coils and books. What you were watching is a sales pitch! He states that He watched a gold wedding band tied to a string sink 23" into sand at the beach in a matter of seconds!!! If you believe this I have a bridge in N.Y. that I can sell to you cheap! Listen, I have probably found over a hundred wedding bands at the end of the day, at the beach at under 6". He Plays on a word,DENSITY. Look it up. It means mass per unit of volume. A second meaning in the dictionary is STUPIDITY. Orion024: I believe you did read an article about Einstine's theory of relative that describes gravity as the fabric of space pushing in on us but your example is off. If the marble that is earth rolls down to the bowling ball sun, it would burn up. In the theory, The bowling ball would be pushed 'into' the fabric of space stretching it which causes the fabric to press in on the sun hence "gravity". Hope this helps.

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[Frankn]

SWR: A man after my own heart, a man of logic!! He displayes the undeniable proof that things don't sink into the ground. Hay SWR, Nobe and tubing,would you be an electrician? I was in IBEW#28 for 2 years

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[orion024]

If your theory Frankeinstine, is correct, maybe you'll float away to outer space, because nothing is holding you here or pushing down on you! The example I used was for the sun gravitational pull on the Earth, no ---- the Earth would burn up if the Sun keep sucking it in, btw the Earth gets closer to the sun every minute!

 

[Frankn]

Orion 024 : read SWR post above, You might learn something!

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[wharghoul]

Re: Interesting topic!

I was wondering how long it was going to take before the word "density" showed up in this thread....LOL!!
If you guys have not yet read Tom Dankowski you're missing a tremendous amount of information about our hobby (or obsession as I like to call it) in general, but his information and research regarding masking and "sink" are very interesting.

Here's the link to his article talking about "sink" on a sand beach, enjoy!!

http://dankowskidetectors.com/loveisdeep.htm

Dave

Uh, Dave, I linked the same video about 6 posts before yours and also mentioned the work "density" about 6 times??

Frankn, I just want to say that I am now dumber from reading your posts. Thanks.

 

[Shambler]

Frankn, I just want to say that I am now dumber from reading your posts.

This.

 

[steve from ohio]

Steven, if the grass lifts the coin then it is no longer on the ground so it can't sink. If you want to prove your theory, place a coin on edge and stay there until it sinks, then post the results.

It does not lift it totally off the ground, it lifts the edge up so the edge is pointed into the ground. You may be the only one reading these posts that thought that the coin was totally lifted off the ground perfectly balanced over the ground, but I probably should have been more specific. If you put a coin over a blade of grass, the coin will not be balanced over the grass but lifted off the ground to the side as the grass grows.

 

[Frankn]

To all the people that responded to this original post, I thank you for your replies. The correct answer to the original question is displayed in post#49. SWR gets the Golden Thread Award. No its not money or a metal, it's Knowing that he got it right!! I can see that there are a lot of misconceptions out there based on old wive's tales.
MODERATOR: Perhaps you could lock this post now.

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[Shambler]

I can see that there are a lot of misconceptions out there based on old wive's tales.

Surprise - an attempt at the last word.

73 years hasn't made you smarter, but it has made you stubborn and aloof. You've ignored the obvious holes in your "theory" by yelling FIRE, errr, I mean SCIENCE. It's come to be expected among the "amateur science" crowd - always trying to over explain based on some theory they thought they understood while ignoring what's right in front of them. Then, when they can't explain the contradictions, they get mean and re-explain what they've already said by conveniently redirecting the discussion to something unrelated (ie. comparing a coin to a house or a civil war relic to a tombstone or a car to a metal detector). We have 150 year old photographs of parks, that show the same walls, sidewalks, buildings, etc. where the top soil has not piled up (or it would cover things in the pictures that are still visible); however near those items, coins are 6" - 10" deep depending on soil composition. I can think of dozens of reasons why this MIGHT have happened but only one of them involve the addition of top soil (while the grass and leaves are removed by parks personell!) I have uncovered toy cars at 6" in my father's back yard that I played with only 35 years ago, the yard has not been distrubed and it has not increased in depth up the 3' fence surrounding the area (making it a 2.5 feet fence). Now, I've had discussions with self proclaimed scientists before, and I understand this is where they get a devious "ah-ha" look on their face and say, "SEE the fence didn't sink". That's the misdirection of someone trying to make people believe them. It's a learned behavior (you can't be a lawyer without this knack) that has worked for them - make folks forget about the evidence of item "A" and make them focus on unrelated item "B".

You really lost credibility with most of the 400 folks that have read this thread with your insults of Tom Dankowski. They are based on ignorance - and again a slight of hand pointed to affiliations instead of the fact he's an engineer heavily involved in the metal detecting industry (while working for NASA).

Circular arguments are for those with low self esteem. It's a discussion thread you started just to show us how "smart" you were at arguing not how "smart" you were in general.

 

[gmanlight]

SWR your observation may be correct.
But the rain and or frost is removed from the equation.

Frankn gave you the award because it made his point .

Yet ignored NASA Tom who has written and painstakingly dissected
the science of metal detecting and will answer any question asked
because it did not help his theory.

P.S. Tom D does not sell detectors or big coils and if not all,
most of his articles are free on line. He does have a nice video though.

 

[benntystan]

WOW, I just like metal detecting