Dowsing test

[ClonedSIM]

so anybody get out and do much detecting instead of this rambling

LOL! Not this week, my work shift has me at the office till after dark each day. I should be able to get out this weekend, though. Found a new site I'm hoping will pay off.

 

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[musstag]

OK. Dowsing test. A fair test is what is needed. Some dowsers say dowsing deals with inductions, some type of energy froce and/or signals. Theses can be tampered and altered. How can a dowser be insured that the testers are not doing something that will alter the dowsing results? Skeptics scoff at signals similar to radio waves, but If a dowser sez it may be part of dowsing, how can the dowser be sure the testers are not tampering with that? A test can NOT include the likes of Carl to have any knowledge of whereor when it is conducted. So to devise a fair test, this is the main point that must be determined. Thats whats stopping me from taking the test, what ever the test details are. A secure Location unknown to the tester and A method for selecting a thrid party to attend in place of the current testers. One third party that comes to mind is a News Reporter who could document the results of a 'pre agreed to' test. And Of course I know Carl would want to not offer the $25k for this test.

 

[ClonedSIM]

musstag,
Neither Carl nor Randi will use any device to alter "signals" that doesn't even exist. It's unlikely either of them will allow a test to take place in a completely unknown location but, other than that, the test details are up to you.

If you feel comfortable dowsing in the middle of an empty field 10 miles from the nearest town, then say that. If you want to try to locate a silver coin under one of ten Dixie cups, then say that. All you have to be able to do is produce repeatable results.

Believe it or not, no one is out to get you if you attempt one of these challenges.
There's no dowsing conspiracy that is making you their target.

 

[musstag]

Well, if for one minute you can grant me the pleasure to say these siganls exist, and That I, not knowing what the results would be, tried to alter these signals, AND I DID alter them to where I could not dowse, then you can understand my concern. And I have altered dowsing results by more than one method, some with different incorrect dowsing reactions.
One example is that a CB radio been operated miles away can change dowsing results.

 

[ClonedSIM]

Once again, if these signal's exist, neither Randi nor Carl would try to "mask" them in anyway. They do not have the desire to cheat in order to get you to fail their challenge. They would much rather you fail on your own.

 

[musstag]

Well, I would agree with you that CARL would rather a dowser fail, but I would add, by whatever method, as he may have a different agenda than Randi.

 

[musstag]

I think it is an interesting idea to have a News person document the result of a DB test that none of you knew would take place. I feel that a News person would not comprise themselves to make false statements of what they observe. And I also feel they would not know how to tamper with the dowsing test.

 

[ClonedSIM]

Look, Randi is a very public individual. He appears on television, radio, and all sorts of public arenas, as well as in print. Are you claiming that he would compromise all that just to cheat you on a dowsing test?

From what I've seen and read, he does not think that dowsing for treasure is possible. He is very public with his opinions and, as a result of this, any testing performed is not done by Randi. This is to preclude anyone pointing fingers at him saying that he cheated.

Have you ever even visited his site? It is all there in black and white.

And, yes, if you want cameras there with reporters, then simply let him know when you apply for the challenge. I have no doubt he would embrace this wholly, as it would serve him as well as yourself.

Personally, I believe all this talk from you about blocking the "signals" and fear that this blocking will be done in a testing situation is simply a set-up for a future excuse, should you fail.

 

[musstag]

DO NOT POST ANY REPLY UNTILL YOU READ THE LINK contained here BELOW.

Yes, I've read a lot on randi's site. He requires some sort of documented evidence that can be inquired about by his people. Thats what got me interested in taking Carl's test to start with, but yes, a news documnetary would do as well.
Do any of you know if this is for real... do you know the founder of this website? Check this out http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/board,283.0.html To tell you the truth about my 1st impression, is I would believe dowsing before I would believe this?? But who knows, what do ya'll think?

 

[ClonedSIM]

Ummm...
I've read Marc's "About Me" post before.
And?

What does it have to do with Randi's challenge?

 

[Carl-NC]

OK. Dowsing test. A fair test is what is needed. Some dowsers say dowsing deals with inductions, some type of energy froce and/or signals. Theses can be tampered and altered.

OK, energy & signals can be measured with electronic equipment. So why not suggest an experiment which does not involve dowsing rods that will prove gold emits a signal that can be detected and tracked over a distance? To his credit, Art attempted to do this, but only succeeded in showing a way to detect ordinary electric charge.

How can a dowser be insured that the testers are not doing something that will alter the dowsing results? Skeptics scoff at signals similar to radio waves, but If a dowser sez it may be part of dowsing, how can the dowser be sure the testers are not tampering with that?

And I agree. The dowser needs to be confident that the test is executed fairly, even if the concern turns out to have no basis.

A test can NOT include the likes of Carl to have any knowledge of whereor when it is conducted.

Are you suggesting that I can somehow alter the test even from many miles away?

So to devise a fair test, this is the main point that must be determined. Thats whats stopping me from taking the test, what ever the test details are. A secure Location unknown to the tester and A method for selecting a thrid party to attend in place of the current testers. One third party that comes to mind is a News Reporter who could document the results of a 'pre agreed to' test. And Of course I know Carl would want to not offer the $25k for this test.

For obvious reasons, I won't offer the challenge prize for a test conducted, in my absense, by a third party whom I don't even know, and who is probably not even familiar with scientific test protocols. But, as I've said before, I will agree to be taken to a location unknown to me, and to submit to a search.

Also, if you wish to duplicate my challenge protocol using, as you suggested, a news reporter or some other independent proctor, I would be more than happy to work with them so they fully understand how to properly conduct the test. Then, you could give it a try without having to travel, and without the risk of interference. It wouldn't include a cash prize, though.

Well, I would agree with you that CARL would rather a dowser fail, but I would add, by whatever method, as he may have a different agenda than Randi.

Believe it or not, I would love to see a dowser succeed, or at least one of those LLADs. I just don't think it will ever happen. And, for the purpose of the challenge, the belief that I would not interfere should not be a parameter.

- Carl

 

[ClonedSIM]

I'm not really sure there's any point in explaining all this to musstag. No matter what happens if he accepts the challenge, I feel he has convinced himself that all of the challenges are rigged through some widespread dowsing conspiracy.

 

[musstag]

Carls last statement sums up my concerns. Yes, signals from miles away can foil a dowser.
Trips, you have lowered youself to name Calling ...? I guess I get what I deserve from a bashing forum that I have been trying to use as a medium to discuss the issues.

I can receive what we will continue to call signals, for lack of another defination, signals from metal objects. I CAN receive interfence from the LADD's. If I come up with a way to prove either, that I feel comfortable with, I will let ya'll Know.

 

[ClonedSIM]

You can recieve interference from LLAD's? From devices that don't transmit or recieve anything at all? How?


Well, either way, come up with a test and let us know.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Hey musstag...These guys no nothing about how Dowsing Rods react. A simple magnet can keep them from working. A simple dimmer switch from Home Depot can keep a set of rods from working. Need I go on and on about this subject. These guy's claim to know everything about Dowsing. They will not study Dowsing but think they know it all. I am begining to think some of these guys that claim to be experts in electronics are just people who like to pretend that they know something. When proven wrong they sure make it known that we are stupid and ignorant. They do not answer our questions about what they think are the facts about Dowsing. I well not take a test that may or may not be rigged. Gee ...we have a Magician and a web site owner whom claim they are gods gift to prevent people from Dowsing. Woop-di-do...Art

 

[musstag]

AF1733, you take such liberties with your statemnets. If they didn't transmit anything at all, then they would not interfere.

 

[Carl-NC]

Carls last statement sums up my concerns. Yes, signals from miles away can foil a dowser.

In all populated areas, the entire radio spectrum is loaded with signals, so how could you ever dowse except in the most remote places?

 

[aarthrj3811]

In all populated areas, the entire radio spectrum is loaded with signals, so how could you ever dowse except in the most remote places?

Carl...Do you know how may freq. that gold will respond to? I know of 8 freq that gold will respond to. This is one thing that you don't understand...Art

 

[Captain Trips]

In all populated areas, the entire radio spectrum is loaded with signals, so how could you ever dowse except in the most remote places?

Carl...Do you know how may freq. that gold will respond to? I know of 8 freq that gold will respond to. This is one thing that you don't understand...Art

Ah. At last, something specific. So, what frequencies are those? Please give specific Hz values. (Oh, and what form of energy is being propagated, as if it were electromagnetic any ordinary radio, with the proper discrimination circuit, could pick it up!)

 

[Carl-NC]

I agree... give us specific frequencies, and how you went about measuring these frequencies. I hope your measurements involved RealScience equipment, and not dowsing rods. If these frequencies really exist, then RealScience equipment will be able to detect them.

- Carl