Dowsing test

Carl, the study I speak of does exist, I know of the book that it is in and I also know that it is not in my power to attain it at this time. I shall get it for you, but I do not believe it is wise or honorable of you to doubt my word, for I have given you no reason to do so.

Carl, concerning the ferromagnetic crystals in human tissue, they are the same as in migratory animals, aka they are of the same use.

Concerning evolution. There are two options here: Either everything is a creation of intelligent design, or everything made itself. There is no in between. Those are your options.

1 - This is the evolutionary formula for making a universe:

Nothing + nothing = two elements + time = 92 natural elements + time = all physical laws and a completely structured universe of galaxies, systems, stars, planets, and moons orbiting in perfect balance and order.

2 - This is the evolutionary formula for making life:

Dirt + water + time = living creatures.

Now, look to evidence, like the age of the earth. How old is the Earth? This is an important question. Even though long ages of time are not a proof of evolution, yet without the long ages evolution could not occur (if it were possible for it to occur).

Look at the magnetic field decay of the Earth. As you probably know, the earth has a magnetic field. Without it, we could not use compasses to identify the direction of magnetic north (which is close to the North Pole). Dr. Thomas G. Barnes, a physics teacher at the University of Texas, has authored a widely used college textbook on electricity and magnetism. Working with data collected over the past 135 years, he has pointed out that earth’s magnetic field is gradually decaying. Indeed, he has shown that this magnetic field is decreasing exponentially, according to a decay law similar to the decay of radioactive substances.

In 1835 the German physicist, K.F. Gauss, made the first measurement of the earth’s magnetic dipole moment, that is, the strength of earth’s internal magnet. Additional evaluations have been carried out every decade or so since then. Since 1835, global magnetism has decreased 14 percent!

On the basis of facts obtained from 1835 to 1965, this magnetic field appears to have a half-life of 1400 years. On this basis, even 7000 years ago, the earth would have had a magnetic field 32 times stronger than it now has. Just 20,000 years ago, enough Joule heat would have been generated to liquefy the earth. One million years ago the earth would have had greater magnetism than all objects in the universe, and it would have vaporized! It would appear that the earth could not be over 6000 or 7000 years old. (On the accompanying graph, beyond the point where the curve becomes vertical, our planet would have had the magnetosphere power of a magnetic star!)

"The over-all intensity of the field is declining at a rate of 26 nanoteslas per year . . If the rate of decline were to continue steadily, the field strength would reach zero in 1,200 years."—*"Magnetic Field Declining," Science News, June 28, 1980.

"In the next two millennia, if the present rate of decay is sustained, the dipole component of the [earth’s magnetic] field should reach zero."—*Scientific American, December 1989.

This magnetic decay process is not a local process, such as one would find in uranium, but worldwide; it affects the entire earth. It has been accurately measured for over 150 years, and is not subject to environmental changes since it is generated deep in the earth’s interior.

If any fundamental planetary process ought to be a reliable indicator of the earth’s age, it should be our earth’s magnetic field—and it indicates an upper limit of decidedly less than 10,000 years for the age of the earth.

Concerning natural selection:

A fundamental teaching of evolution is that every living thing in our world—whether it be a plant, animal, or bird,—evolved from other creatures, which ultimately originated from dust, rock, and water.

According to Darwinian evolutionists, this ‘evolving’ was accomplished by "natural selection." Charles Darwin said that natural selection was the primary way that everything changed itself from lower life-forms, and new species were produced.

In the years that have passed since Charles Darwin, this theory of "natural selection" has continued as a mainstay of evolutionary theory.

The basic teaching is that when a plant or animal produces offspring, variations appear. Some of the offspring will be different than other offspring. Some evolutionists (Darwinian evolutionists, also called "Darwinists") declare that it is these variations—alone—which have caused all life-forms on our planet: pine trees, jackals, clams, zebras, frogs, grass, horses and it all started with dust...actually it started with nothing, then everything made itself.

On the face of it, the statement is false merely from the fact that evolutionary theory requires change by random action alone. If even half of the random changes were positive, the other half would have to be damaging. But Ruse views all changes as being selectively positive. In addition he ignores other scientific facts, such as the powerful one that the closest thing to natural selection (gene reshuffling) never goes across the species barrier to produce a new species.

Not only is natural selection said to have produced everything, but the entire process was said to be entirely random! Therefore it is not "selection," for nothing was selected! Just whatever happened next was accepted.

"Modern evolutionary theory holds that evolution is ‘opportunistic,’ in the word of paleontologist George Gaylord Simpson. At any point, it goes in the direction that is advantageous, often reshaping old structures for new uses. It does not know its destination, nor is it impelled to follow one particular direction."

—R. Milner, Encyclopedia of Evolution (1990), p. 345.


How can total randomness select only that which is better, and move only in advantageous directions? Random occurrences never work that way. Yet in the never-never land of evolutionary theory, they are said to do so.

Mutational changes: Occasionally changes in offspring occur because of a mutational defect. Such alterations always weaken the individual that has them. A mutational change is not a normal variational reshuffling of the DNA code, but an actual change in one tiny item in the code information. The result is that the perfection of the code has been damaged. The resultant offspring are weaker and they are more likely to die off.

Survival of the fittest: Organisms damaged by mutations or otherwise tend to be culled out. Evolutionists call that culling out process "survival of the fittest." But all that actually occurred was that misfits produced by mutations or accidents are eliminated, thus returning the species closer to its pure pattern. "Survival of the fittest" accomplishes the opposite of evolution! The hardships of life cull out the weakened forms of each species, and thus keep each species very stable. There is nothing in this process that has anything to do with evolution, which is evolving from one species to another.

Species evolution never occurs by means of natural selection. Evolutionists have ransacked the plant and animal kingdoms for examples of cross-species evolution (by any means, natural selection or otherwise!), and have been unable to find them. What they have found are some interesting examples of variations WITHIN species. These they present to the public and in schoolbooks as "evidences" of evolution. Examples are like the peppered moth, which was greatly staged to fit their preconceived judgments concerning the subject of evolution, and the differences withint the species is not evolution, it is variation of species.

Plant scientists have bred unusual varieties of roses, corn, chrysanthemums, etc., but never do any of their experiments go across basic types. As we study wildlife, we find the same thing: Never does one basic species change into another species. No matter how much time is involved, horses don't have pigs, cats don't have frogs, and monkeys do not have men.

Neither plants nor animals produce new types, nor is man able to apply special breeding techniques and produce from them something that crosses the species barrier. It just cannot be done.

Modern molecular biology with its many discoveries of DNA has added immense confirmation to the great law of heredity. Normal variations can operate, but only within a certain range specified by the DNA for that particular type of organism. Within this range are all the possible variations to be found within each species.

Consider the horse. There are many types of horses: large horses, fast horses, work horses, miniature horses,—but each one is obviously a horse. Well, then, what about the mule? A mule is a cross between two species, the horse and the donkey. In a few instances such crosses between two species can occur. But it is a cross, not a crossover. The horse can reproduce more horses, the donkey can reproduce more donkeys. But when a female horse and a male donkey crossbreed, the mule that is produced is usually sterile. But in those rare instances in which a female mule does have offspring, they revert back toward the horse or donkey species. A horse and a donkey are very close to the same species, and it is only for that reason that they can crossbreed and produce a normally barren mule.

There are several instances in which similar species are crossbred:

"Domestic and wild animals have produced interesting and sometimes useful (to man) hybrids. Successful crosses have been made between cattle and bison (‘beefalo’), turkeys and chickens (‘turkens’) and horses and zebras. Usually, the male offspring of these unions are sterile, and the females are either sterile, show reduced fertility or produce offspring that do not live long."

—R. Milner, Encyclopedia of Evolution (1990), p. 231.

Genetic scientists tell us that all variation occurs in living things only within each type, and never from one type to another. It is the complicated DNA code within each plant and animal type that erects the great wall, which cannot be crossed.

There is no evidence that at any time, in all the history of the world, even one new true species has formed from other species. Yet evolutionary teachings require that such dramatic new changes would have had to occur thousands and thousands of times.

I could go on forever, I have recently studied this area very keenly. But you are right Carl, ignorance does not change the truth, you may deny the truth that evolution is false, but this doesn't change the fact that it is an unsupported joke.

There are only two alternatives, either everything made itself (which can not be done, as has and can be shown) or everything is of intelligent design.
 

First of all, this is a dowsing thread -- not an evolution thread.

Second of all -- you've got it wrong about the decaying magnetic field. Yes, it may be decaying now -- but was it always? No -- the geologic evidence is that the magnetic field "flips" regularly. This "flip" isn't instantaneous. It follows a pattern of decay (yes, the very word you used) down to zero, then increases up to a maximum in the opposite direction, then decays to zero and increases in an opposite (yet again) direction. It isn't a fixed decay, rather one that follows a cyclic pattern. As such, you can not say the magnetic field is only x years old. We can not actually determine when such a cyclic pattern began. Therefore, you can not use it as an argument for the age of the earth.

Now, let's get back to the subject of this thread, and leave evolution to other threads. Or maybe a moderator will see this and delete all evolution-related posts to this thread?
 

musstag said:
SO Thats what HIS problem is, that kind of thinking.

I'm sorry you feel that scientific investigation and rational thinking are negative attributes. Out of curiosity, do you reject all of science, or only what you are told to reject?

- Carl
 

Sandsted said:
Carl, the study I speak of does exist, I know of the book that it is in and I also know that it is not in my power to attain it at this time. I shall get it for you, but I do not believe it is wise or honorable of you to doubt my word, for I have given you no reason to do so.

I didn't say I doubted you. I merely asked for published material. Can you at least tell me the name of the book?

Carl, concerning the ferromagnetic crystals in human tissue, they are the same as in migratory animals, aka they are of the same use.

Evolution, if true, provides an easy explanation for this. At some point, one or more common ancestors developed this capability, probably for migration. As speciation occurred, some decendents maintained this capability, while others lost it. Those who lost it, might still have residual magnetite deposits. The same thing occurred with the appendix... it is useless in humans, but important to other animals.

I agree with Capt. Trips... this is not the forum to discuss evolution. An excellent place to discuss it is talk.origins.

- Carl
 

Sandsted said:
On the basis of facts obtained from 1835 to 1965, this magnetic field appears to have a half-life of 1400 years. On this basis, even 7000 years ago, the earth would have had a magnetic field 32 times stronger than it now has. Just 20,000 years ago, enough Joule heat would have been generated to liquefy the earth. One million years ago the earth would have had greater magnetism than all objects in the universe, and it would have vaporized! It would appear that the earth could not be over 6000 or 7000 years old. (On the accompanying graph, beyond the point where the curve becomes vertical, our planet would have had the magnetosphere power of a magnetic star!)
OMG, Sandy! :o Do you seriously think that the Earth is only 6 to 7 thousand years old?
Based on the gravatational field decay?
So when it reaches zero we just all float off into space?
What exactly is the expiration date of the Earth, Sandy?

Forget it, man. There's obviously no use discussing logic with you.
 

There's no discussing logic with me? Perhaps you should retake an English class, for you obviously can't tell the difference between magnetic and gravitational.

I can give you much more evidence to prove the age of the earth and the universe besides this, this is just one point. If there is evidence of the "flip" in the magnetic field decay, I'd like to see it. What I posted is an article concerning the age of the earth.

Anyway, the book...was something on magnatism. I'll find it for you.

If you favor it, I won't speak on the subject of evolution, but don't say it is on the side of science.

I'm not saying the ferromagnetic crystals or the magnetite in humans is the easiest way to orient one's self, yet I think one can not say that humans can't use it.
 

Riiigght....
Okay, so you also believe that magnetism and gravity have nothing to do with one another.

Let's just forget all that, and return to my original query.

Do you actually believe the Earth is only 7000 years old?
 

Af...I didn't ever talk about gravity, you came up with the notion that gravity is decaying. (I suspect you just read over my post too quickly and missed where it said Magnetic).

Now concerning the age of the Earth, what are you prepared to say if I said it is younger then 7,000 years?
 

Can't you answer one simple question???

Do you honestly believe the Earth is only 7000 years old?
 

Alright, Af, as plainly as I can I'll answer your question:

No, I do not.
 

Well, I'm certainly happy to hear that. So we can toss out most of the "facts" you posted from Guass then.

The one thing you did say correctly is that the magnetic fields on the Earth are in a decaying pattern at the moment, but if you had read Captain Trips post, you would realize that this is a cyclical action, repeated many times in the past, and not an indication of the age of the Earth. In fact, the reversal occurs approximately every 250,000 years.

By the way, if you want to know about the age of the Earth, just let me know.
 

Okay, how old is the age of the earth? I agree it's not 7,000. That's as plainly as I can put it.
 

I'm glad to see you agree the Earth is not 7,000 years old. It's a step in the right direction.

It's about 4.5 billion years old, give or take.
 

I want you to know Af, from now on...the information I provide is not my information...I may not even agree with it...but I give it to you...for you to ponder.

The spin of the earth—which is now about 1000 miles [1609 km] an hour—is gradually slowing down. Gravitational drag forces of the sun, moon, and other factors cause this. If the earth were really billions of years old, as claimed, it would already have stopped turning on its axis! This is yet another evidence that our world is not very old.

Lord Kelvin (the 19th-century physicist who introduced the Kelvin temperature scale) used this slowing rotation as a reason why the earth could not be very old. The decline in rotation rate is now known to be greater than previously thought (Thomas G. Barnes, "Physics: A Challenge to ‘Geologic Times,’ " Impact 16, July 1974).

Using a different calculation, we can extrapolate backward from our present spin rate and 5 billion years ago our planet would have had to be spinning so fast it would have changed to the shape of a flat pancake. We, today, would still have the effects of that: Our equator would now reach 40 miles [64 km] up into the sky, and our tropical areas—and all our oceans—would be at the poles. So, by either type of calculation, our world cannot be more than a few thousand years old.

-

Oil and gas are usually located in a porous and permeable rock like sandstone or limestone, which is sealed by an impermeable rock-like shale. Fluids and gas can easily travel through the containing rock, but more slowly pass out of the impermeable cap. Evolutionary theory postulates that tens or hundreds of millions of years ago, the oil and gas were trapped in there.

But natural gas can still get through the shale cap. A recent study analyzed the rate of escape of gas through shale caps. It was found to be far too rapid for acceptance by evolutionary theory. If the world were billions of years old, all the natural gas would already have escaped.

-

The giant sequoias of California have no known enemies except man. And only recently did man (with his saws) have the ability to easily destroy them. Insects do not bother them, nor even forest fires. They live on, century after century. Yet the sequoias are never older than about 4000 years. These giant redwoods seem to be the original trees that existed in their timber stands. Sequoia gigantea, in their groves in the Sierra Nevada Mountains, never have any dead trees ("snags") among them. Unless man cuts them down, there is no evidence that they ever die!

The University of Arizona has a department that specializes in tree dating. *Edmund Schulman of its Dendrochronological Laboratory discovered a stand of still older trees in the White Mountains of California. These were bristlecone pines (Pinus longalva).

Beginning in 1978, Walter Lammerts, a plant scientist, spent several years working with bristlecone pine seedlings in their native habitat of Arizona. He discovered that the San Francisco Mountain region, in which they grow, has spring and fall rains with a very dry summer in between. Working carefully with the seedlings and giving them the same type of watering and other climatic conditions that they would normally receive,—he found that much of the time the bristlecone pines produce two growth rings a year. This is an important discovery, for it would indicate that the sequoias—not the bristlecone pines—are probably the oldest living things on earth.

Think of it! Today we have just ONE generation of the Sequoia gigantea! Both the parent trees and their offspring are still alive. There is no record of any tree or other living thing that is older than any reasonable date given for the Genesis Flood. In the case of the giant sequoias, there is no reason why they could not have lived for many thousands of years beyond their present life span.

-

I am now talking...Evolutionists say that we stopped evolving 100,000 years ago, and since then have been "Socially evolving"...which is not evolution at all...but anyway, here's a bit of information from that, that is not my information...:

If mankind has been living and working on Planet Earth for millions of years, why do we find records of man only dating back to about 2000-3500 B.C.? And these records, when found, reveal the existence of highly developed civilizations.

As is shown more fully in chapter 13, Ancient Man, the writings, language, and cultures of ancient mankind started off fully developed—but are not found to have begun until about 2000-3000 B.C.

(1) Early Egyptian Records. The earliest historical books are those of the Egyptians and the Hebrews. The historical dates assigned to the beginnings of Egyptian and Sumerian history are based primarily on king-lists. The earliest records are the Egyptian king-lists, dating from about the First Dynasty in Egypt, between 3200 and 3600 B.C. But internal and external evidence indicates that these dates should be lowered. An Egyptologist writes:

"We think that the First Dynasty [in Egypt] began not before 3400 and not much later than 3200 B.C. . . A. Scharff, however, would bring the date down to about 3000 B.C.; and it must be admitted that his arguments are good, and that at any rate it is more probable that the date of the First Dynasty is later than 3400 B.C., rather than earlier."—*H.R. Hall, "Egypt: Archaeology," in Encyclopedia Britannica, 1956 edition, Vol. 8, p. 37.

The problem with First Dynasty dates is they are based on the king-lists of Manetho, an Egyptian priest who lived many centuries later, in 250 B.C. Manetho’s writings have only been preserved in a few inaccurate quotations in other ancient writings. Barton, of the University of Pennsylvania, points out the problem here:

"The number of years assigned to each [Egyptian] king, and consequently the length of time covered by the dynasties, differ in these two copies, so that, while the work of Manetho forms the backbone of our chronology, it gives us no absolute reliable chronology."—George A. Barton, Archaeology and the Bible, p. 11.

Confusion in regard to Egyptian dating has continued on down to the present time.

"In the course of a single century’s research, the earliest date in Egyptian history—that of Egypt’s unification under King Menes [first king of the first Egyptian dynasty]—has plummeted from 5876 to 2900 B.C., and not even the latter year has been established beyond doubt. Do we, in fact, have any firm dates at all?"—Johannes Lehmann, The Hittites (1977), p. 204.

It is difficult to obtain exact clarity when examining ancient Egyptian texts. A number of Egyptologists think that Manetho’s lists dealt not with a single dynasty—but with two different ones that reigned simultaneously in upper and lower Egypt. This would markedly reduce the Manetho dates.

Manetho’s king-list give us dates that are older than that of any other dating records anywhere in the world. But there are a number of scholars who believe that (1) the list deal with two simultaneously reigning sets of kings; (2) that they are not numerically accurate; and (3) that Manetho fabricated names, events, numbers, and history, as did many ancient Egyptian Pharaohs and historians, in order to magnify the greatness of Egypt or certain rulers. For example, it is well-known among archaeologists and Egyptologists that ancient Egyptian records exaggerated victories while never mentioning defeats. The Egyptians had a center-of-the-universe attitude about themselves, and they repeatedly colored or falsified historical reporting in order to make themselves look better than other nations around them.

In contrast, it is highly significant that well-authenticated Egyptian dates only go back to 1600 B.C.! Experts, trying to unravel Egyptian dating problems, have come to that conclusion.

"Frederick Johnson, coworker with Dr. Libby [in the development of, and research into, radiocarbon dating], cites the general correspondence [agreement] of radiocarbon dates to the known ages of various samples taken from tombs, temples, or palaces out of the historical past. Well-authenticated dates are known only back as far as 1600 B.C. in Egyptian history, according to John G. Read (J.G. Read, Journal of Near Eastern Studies, 29, No. 1, 1970). Thus, the meaning of dates by C-14 prior to 1600 B.C. is still as yet controversial."—H.M. Morris, W.W. Boardman, and R.F. Koontz, Science and Creation (1971), p. 85.

Because cosmologists, chronologists, historians, and archaeologists heavily rely on Egyptian dates for their theories, Egyptian dating has become very important in dating the ancient world, and thus quite influential. This is because it purports to provide us with the earliest historical dates. There is evidence available that would definitely lower archaeological dates and bring them into line with Biblical chronology.

-

Research studies indicate that our sun is gradually shrinking at a steady rate of seconds of arc per century. At its rate of shrinkage, as little as 50,000 years ago the sun would have been so large that our oceans would boil. But in far less a time than 50,000 years, life here would have ceased to exist. Recent studies have disclosed that neither the size of the sun, nor our distance from it, could be much greater or smaller—in order for life to be sustained on our planet.

"By analyzing data from Greenwich Observatory in the period 1836-1953, John A. Eddy [Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics and High Altitude Observatory in Boulder] and Aram A. Boornazian [mathematician with S. Ross and Co. in Boston] have found evidence that the sun has been contracting about 0.1% per century during that time, corresponding to a shrinkage rate of about 5 feet per hour. And digging deep into historical records, Eddy has found 400-year-old eclipse observations that are consistent with such a shrinkage."— *"Sun is Shrinking," Physics Today, September 1979.

Extrapolating back, 100,000 years ago, the sun would have been about twice its present size, making life untenable.

In 1968 it was discovered that the sun is emitting hardly any neutrinos. This evidence points directly to a very youthful sun. These neutrinos ought to be radiating outward from the sun in very large amounts, but this is not occurring. This fact, coupled with the discovery that the sun is shrinking in size, point to a recently created sun.

Comets, journeying around the sun, are assumed to have the same age as our world and solar system. But, as Fred Whipple has acknowledged, astronomers have no idea where or how comets originated. Yet we know that they are continually disintegrating. This is because they are composed of bits of rocky debris held together by frozen gases and water. Each time a comet circles the sun, some of the ice is evaporated and some of the gas is boiled away by the sun’s heat. Additional material is lost through gravitational forces, tail formation, meteor stream production, and radiative forces. The most spectacular part of a comet is its tail, yet this consists of material driven away from its head by solar energy. All the tail material is lost in space as the comet moves onward.

A number of comets have broken up and dissipated within the period of human observation. Some of those regularly seen in the nineteenth century have now vanished. Others have died spectacularly by plunging into the sun.

Evidently all the comets should self-destruct within a time frame that is fairly short. Careful study has indicated that the effect of this dissolution process on short-term comets would have totally dissipated them within 10,000 years.

There are numerous comets circling our sun, including many short-term ones, with no source of new comets known to exist.

There's more if you like...
 

Okay, I'm curious. If you don't agree with this information, why are you bringing it here?
 

Af...one must not ignore information, because one disagrees with it. If I disagree with this information...should I exclude it from this conversation? No...one must look to every evidence possible.

This information is the opposite of the notion that the world is 4.5 billion years old. I didn't know a lot of this information and at this time I will assume you did not either...therefore the information is relevant. If it is relevant, then I say study it.
 

It seems odd that you would present information that opposes your own point of view, but whatever you say.

The problem with all the arguments above is that most of them work under the assumption that Earth did not exist before man did, a preposterous presumption, I would think.

And, while I won't go through and point out all the fallacies in the information you've presented, are there any studies or records that agree with the information you posted?

Here's a couple of things that might interest you.

After the publication of Charles Darwin's On the Origin of Species in 1859, William Thomson (later Lord Kelvin) saw evidence of the relatively short habitable age of the Earth as tending to contradict an evolutionary explanation of biological diversity. He noted that the sun could not have possibly existed long enough to allow the slow incremental development by evolution — unless some energy source beyond what he or any other Victorian era person knew of was found. He was soon drawn into public disagreement with Darwin's supporters John Tyndall and T.H. Huxley. In his response to Huxley’s address to the Geological Society of London (1868) he presented his address "Of Geological Dynamics", (1869)[29] which, among his other writings, set back the scientific acceptance that the earth must be of very great age.

Thomson ultimately settled on an estimate that the Earth was 20-40 million years old. Shortly before his death however, Becquerel's discovery of radioactivity and Marie Curie's studies with uranium ores provided the insight into the 'energy source beyond' that would power the sun for the long time-span required by the theory of evolution. Though Thomson continued to defend his estimates, privately he admitted that they were most probably wrong.


And here's one more for you:

The thick, tannin-rich bark, combined with foliage that starts high above the ground provides good protection from both fire and insect damage, contributing to the Coast Redwood's longevity. The oldest known Coast Redwood is about 2200 years old; many others in the wild exceed 600 years.

The prehistoric fossil range of the genus is considerably greater, with a subcosmopolitan distribution including Europe and Asia until about 5 million years ago.


So Kelvin disagrees with the 4.6 billion year theory, but he seems to admit to at least 20-40 million, and this was in the 19th century.

Here's some evidence that trees in the Sequoia family do indeed die. And did you notice one striking similarity between all the evidence you presented?

Sandsted said:
If the earth were really billions of years old, as claimed, it would already have stopped turning on its axis!

If the world were billions of years old, all the natural gas would already have escaped.

Unless man cuts them down, there is no evidence that they ever die!

In contrast, it is highly significant that well-authenticated Egyptian dates only go back to 1600 B.C.! Experts, trying to unravel Egyptian dating problems, have come to that conclusion.

At its rate of shrinkage, as little as 50,000 years ago the sun would have been so large that our oceans would boil. But in far less a time than 50,000 years, life here would have ceased to exist.
Extrapolating back, 100,000 years ago, the sun would have been about twice its present size, making life untenable.

They're called sweeping generalizations, based on incomplete evidence. And, just to let you know, the sun is expanding, not shrinking, and will enter a Red Giant phase in 3-4 billion years.

Also, there are three types of neutrinos. The study you are referring to, now almost 40 years old, measured electron neutrinos only. In 1982, after several neutrino observatories were built, it was discovered that electron neutrinos could oscillate, or change, to tau and muon neutrinos while traveling to Earth. When these three types of neutrinos were combined, it fit perfectly with expected neutrino outputs.

How about that? Science and research pays off again.
 

Again this is not my information...I'm just giving it to you. But what about the rotation of the earth slowing down.

The information I give you spans every field in science. These are made simple so that the average man can understand them.

The point I made earlier is that dealing with a controversial subject, like evolution, one can not just study one side. "One must know one's enemy, for if this is so...he shall surely be the victor." You have to go to every bit of evidence before making a conclusion.

What I'm forcing you to do now is to look to some evidence that is on the opposite of what you believe and study. Therefore, you will know your "enemy".

1 - STAR CLUSTERS—There are many star clusters in the universe. Each one is a circular ball composed of billions upon billions of stars, each with its own orbit. Science tells us that some of these clusters—with their stars—are moving so rapidly, together, in a certain direction that it should be impossible for them to remain together if the universe were very old.

2 - LARGE STARS—Some stars are so enormous in diameter that it is thought that they could not have existed for even a few million years, otherwise their initial larger mass would have been impossibly large. These massive stars radiate energy very rapidly—some as much as 100,000 to 1 million times more rapidly than our own sun. On the hydrogen basis of stellar energy, they could not have contained enough hydrogen to radiate at such fast rates for long ages, because their initial mass would have had to be far too gigantic.

3 - HIGH-ENERGY STARS—Some stars are radiating energy so intensely that they could not possibly have survived for a long period of time. This includes the very bright O and B class stars, the Wolf-Rayfert stars, and the P Cygni stars. Radiation levels of 100,000 to 1 million times as much as our own sun are emitted by these stars! Yet, by the standard solar energy theory, they do not contain enough hydrogen to perpetuate atomic fusion longer than approximately 50,000 to 300,000 years.

4 - BINARY STARS—Many of the stars in the sky are binaries: two stars circling one another. But many of these binary systems point us to a young age for the universe, because they consist of theoretically "young" and "old" stars circling one another.

5 - HYDROGEN IN UNIVERSE—According to one theory of solar energy, hydrogen is constantly being converted into helium as stars shine. But hydrogen cannot be made by converting other elements into it. *Fred Hoyle, a leading astronomer, maintains that, if the universe were as old as Big Bang theorists contend, there should be little hydrogen in it. It would all have been transformed into helium by now. Yet stellar spectra reveal an abundance of hydrogen in the stars, therefore the universe must be youthful.

9 - COMET WATER—It has only been in recent years that scientists have discovered that comets are primarily composed of water, and that many small comets are continually striking the earth. Yet each strike adds more water to our planet. Scientific evidence indicates that, if the earth was billions of years old, our oceans would be filled several times over with water.

10 - SOLAR WIND—As the sun’s radiation flows outward, it applies an outward force on very, very small particles orbiting the sun. All of the particles smaller than 100,000th of a centimeter in diameter should have long ago been "blown out" of our solar system, if the solar system were billions of years old. Yet research studies by satellites in space have shown that those small particles are abundant and still orbiting the sun. Therefore our solar system is quite young.

11 - SOLAR DRAG—This is a principle known as the "Poynting-Robertson Effect." Our sun exerts a solar drag on the small rocks and larger particles (micrometeoroids) in our solar system. This causes these particles to spiral down into the sun and be destroyed. The sun, acting like a giant vacuum cleaner, sweeps up about 100,000 tons [82,301 mt] of micrometeoroids each day. The actual process by which this occurs has been analyzed. Each particle absorbs energy from the sun and then re-radiates it in all directions. This causes a slowing down of the particle in its orbit and causes it to fall into the sun. At its present rate, our sun would have cleaned up most of the particles in less than 10,000 years, and all of it within 50,000 years.

Yet there is an abundance of these small pieces of rock, and there is no known source of replenishment. This is because each solar system would lock in its own micrometeoroids so they could not escape to another one, and the gravity on each planet and moon would forbid any of its gravel to fly out into space.

COMPOSITION OF SATURN’S RINGS—*G.P. Kuiper reported, in 1967, that the trillions of particles in the rings circling the planet Saturn are primarily composed of solid ammonia. Since solidified ammonia has a much higher vapor pressure than even ice, reputable scientists recognize that it could not survive long without vaporizing off into space. This is a strong indicator of a young age for Saturn’s rings.

13 - BOMBARDMENT OF SATURN’S RINGS—Meteoroids bombarding Saturn’s rings would have destroyed them in far less than 20,000 years.

14 - MORE RING PROBLEMS—NASA Voyager treks have disclosed that Jupiter and Uranus also have rings encircling them! (In addition, a 1989 Neptune flyby revealed that it also has rings—four of them.) These discoveries have only augmented the problem of the evolutionists, for this would indicate a young age for those three planets also.

15 - JUPITER’S MOONS—The Voyager I space probe was launched on September 5, 1977. Aimed at the planet Jupiter, it made its closest approach to that planet on March 5, 1979. Thousands of pictures and thousands of measurements were taken of Jupiter and its moons.

Io is the innermost of the four original "Galilean moons," and was found to have over sixty active volcanoes! These volcanoes spew plumes of ejecta from 60 to 160 miles [97 to 257 km] above Io’s surface. This is astounding.

Nothing on our planet can match this continuous stream of material being shot out by Io’s volcanoes at a velocity of 2000 miles per hour [3218 km per hour]! The usual evolutionary model portrays all the planets and moons as being molten 5 billion years ago. During the next billion years they are said to have had active volcanoes. Then, 4 billion years ago, the volcanism stopped as they cooled. Io is quite small, yet it has the most active volcanoes we know of. Obviously, it is quite young and its internal heat has not had time to cool.
 

The age of the earth has noting to do to disprove Devine Intervention. Thats because IT is what ITS called INTERVENTION. ALL the Facts will always be a mystery to mankind. Becasue Intervention breaks the chain of scientific logic.
The universe is big, but does it end, if so whats on the other side of it? We were not created to be able to think in such a way to understand such a concept. Our thinking ability leaves many un answered questions.
Carl tries to make a point with our appendix, useless, several times... but what does that prove, nothing... what about the 90% of our Brain that is useless? Their was ONE MAN on this Earth that possibly used more of his brain than anyone one else ever has, and maybe one day one of us or someone yet to be will be given that same or even more Divine power. Could be, "Intervention" has no complete defination, and that CHAPTER may not yet be ended.
 

so anybody get out and do much detecting instead of this rambling
 

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